Does anyone have a good way to secure the tiller for those quick runs below or forward to check on things? I don't want to drill anything into my tiller. Attached is a photo of what I do. The drawback is that it tends to weather the tiller more since the line is not always dry. Ideas?
Tiller Tamer
- Thread starter Mike4049
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Update that century old jury rig !
What you are showing is a tied old and unreliable rope-wrap-around; don't be bothered by 2 small parallel holes for stainless steel screws that attach a tiller tamer. Also the holes can later be filled with wood filler ! It is reccommended to replace the supplied line with a low or zero-stretch line from west marine for keeping the lock-down adjustment tight. Not an expensive item.
What you are showing is a tied old and unreliable rope-wrap-around; don't be bothered by 2 small parallel holes for stainless steel screws that attach a tiller tamer. Also the holes can later be filled with wood filler ! It is reccommended to replace the supplied line with a low or zero-stretch line from west marine for keeping the lock-down adjustment tight. Not an expensive item.
Mounting Option
Hi Mike: You might want to check out the tiller tamer from cansail. It has an option to mount on the bottom side of the tiller. You will barely see it with the line removed. If you'er worried about holes and you don't like it take it off and only have two small holes on the bottom side of the tiller. This unit is very nice looking and constructed of stainless and bronze. It should last 50 years. And it has just one lever to control tention with no knobs to twist or mess with. Check it out on cansail.com for price and details. Hope this helps! Phil
Hi Mike: You might want to check out the tiller tamer from cansail. It has an option to mount on the bottom side of the tiller. You will barely see it with the line removed. If you'er worried about holes and you don't like it take it off and only have two small holes on the bottom side of the tiller. This unit is very nice looking and constructed of stainless and bronze. It should last 50 years. And it has just one lever to control tention with no knobs to twist or mess with. Check it out on cansail.com for price and details. Hope this helps! Phil
Unstable Helm
I must admit one of my biggest surprises (and disappointment) with the C-22 is the unstable helm. I expected it to be less jumpy than it is, allowing me some short time away from the tiller without the boat veering off course. But, of course, any boat design is a series of compromises.
I must admit one of my biggest surprises (and disappointment) with the C-22 is the unstable helm. I expected it to be less jumpy than it is, allowing me some short time away from the tiller without the boat veering off course. But, of course, any boat design is a series of compromises.
Factors
"I must admit one of my biggest surprises (and disappointment) with the C-22 is the unstable helm. I expected it to be less jumpy than it is, allowing me some short time away from the tiller without the boat veering off course." Well Mike as you probably know, that is a result of the length of the boat, the keel, the rudder, the mast rake, sail trim as well as the nature of the winds on any given day. It is even a result of how the ballast in the boat is located. For example, If you stand out by the lifelines on the starboard side and forward by the mast, your boat will have a tendancy to turn to port. The point of sail and the wind strength affect the helm but you can modify weather helm a bit by adjusting the mast rake or tuning the sails. I feel much more comfortable tying off the tiller when the winds are light and steady but if the winds are kicking up, I think that I want to be with the controls just in case. I've been using bungee chords here to help keep the boat more on course but it's never 100% accurate. I think that if I got one of those newer rudders from CD that are more forward balanced, it may track better but I have yet to try it. Where tying down the tiller really comes in handy for us is when motoring back to the dock. I set the 6hp at about 1/3 throttle and I can go forward to take the jib off the forestay and stow it in the sack without loosing much direction of course. Some of the guys like Chip Ford have the fancy auto-helms and I wonder how effective they are. http://www.chipford.com/cape_cod_06/060817_homeward03.jpg
"I must admit one of my biggest surprises (and disappointment) with the C-22 is the unstable helm. I expected it to be less jumpy than it is, allowing me some short time away from the tiller without the boat veering off course." Well Mike as you probably know, that is a result of the length of the boat, the keel, the rudder, the mast rake, sail trim as well as the nature of the winds on any given day. It is even a result of how the ballast in the boat is located. For example, If you stand out by the lifelines on the starboard side and forward by the mast, your boat will have a tendancy to turn to port. The point of sail and the wind strength affect the helm but you can modify weather helm a bit by adjusting the mast rake or tuning the sails. I feel much more comfortable tying off the tiller when the winds are light and steady but if the winds are kicking up, I think that I want to be with the controls just in case. I've been using bungee chords here to help keep the boat more on course but it's never 100% accurate. I think that if I got one of those newer rudders from CD that are more forward balanced, it may track better but I have yet to try it. Where tying down the tiller really comes in handy for us is when motoring back to the dock. I set the 6hp at about 1/3 throttle and I can go forward to take the jib off the forestay and stow it in the sack without loosing much direction of course. Some of the guys like Chip Ford have the fancy auto-helms and I wonder how effective they are. http://www.chipford.com/cape_cod_06/060817_homeward03.jpg
AutoHelm
I was one of those guys who had a fancy auto-helm until the gear cracked. It came with the boat so I'm not sure how old it was but boy do I miss it. It worked great. The only time it struggled was if you had following seas lifting your stern. (which is also where I struggle to keep her on course)For the time being it has been replaced by two teenage sons so no rush to buy a new one.
I was one of those guys who had a fancy auto-helm until the gear cracked. It came with the boat so I'm not sure how old it was but boy do I miss it. It worked great. The only time it struggled was if you had following seas lifting your stern. (which is also where I struggle to keep her on course)For the time being it has been replaced by two teenage sons so no rush to buy a new one.
Thanks
To Carl and Aldo for their reports. I am curious about the + and - of these devices. I can see where a following sea can give problems, I would think that the rudder looses it's effectiveness and the auto-helm then has problems with it's lack of effectiveness. In Checking at the Raymarine site, they have this autopilot AND as an accessory, a remote wireless controller. The total for the two is about $1K. hmmm. If only the remote were 100% waterproof. It could be the ultimate single handed MOB self rescue device.
To Carl and Aldo for their reports. I am curious about the + and - of these devices. I can see where a following sea can give problems, I would think that the rudder looses it's effectiveness and the auto-helm then has problems with it's lack of effectiveness. In Checking at the Raymarine site, they have this autopilot AND as an accessory, a remote wireless controller. The total for the two is about $1K. hmmm. If only the remote were 100% waterproof. It could be the ultimate single handed MOB self rescue device.
Autopilot Remote
Bilbo: I never thought about the following seas issue in terms of loss of effectiveness of the rudder, but I can really see your point. I always figured that the waves coming from the stern just pushed it, but I can see that the water moving past the rudder in the reverse direction could cause it to loose effectiveness. Anyhow, if you really wanted to address this issue, you would just have to sail at an angle, instead of straight with the wind. I can tell you that I have run with our autopilot doing the steering for over 30 miles, several times. But, it's not ideal, especially if the boat is surfing down the waves. We do have a remote for ours, but it is a wired, not a wireless remote. It's OK, but not quite as nice as using the buttons on the regular autopilot. It doesn't have the LCD screen on it. We do have an ST1000, which is what your link shows. I think that the ST2000 would be a little better, because it has a ball screw if I remember correctly, and is faster and a little more powerful, but I'm just happy to have the one I have right now. With a remote, you can have the motor running, and go to the mast to raise the sails. Or, you can go forward and sit at the bow, and steer the boat. We have actually done this several times. But, remember, the reliability isn't 100%. It's maybe 99%, so you still have to keep an eye on things, like crab pots. Also, you sure don't want to fall off the boat. It would just keep going until it runs out of water. The price shouldn't be as much as the price on your link. I got mine from Sailnet, and at that time they were including the wired remote for free, and the cost was $400. That was in 2001. I'm sure that our autopilot has steered our boat 100s of miles since we got it. Don't hesitate to ask me more questions. I wish that I had someone to talk to before I bought ours. There are many other things that I could talk about, like using a GPS and the autopilot, or navigation software and a computer, GPS, and the autopilot, but someone would have to be interested, before I would write about that. I never had much electronics on our boat until my sons got to be teenagers. Now I probably have as much wiring as rope. Aldo
Bilbo: I never thought about the following seas issue in terms of loss of effectiveness of the rudder, but I can really see your point. I always figured that the waves coming from the stern just pushed it, but I can see that the water moving past the rudder in the reverse direction could cause it to loose effectiveness. Anyhow, if you really wanted to address this issue, you would just have to sail at an angle, instead of straight with the wind. I can tell you that I have run with our autopilot doing the steering for over 30 miles, several times. But, it's not ideal, especially if the boat is surfing down the waves. We do have a remote for ours, but it is a wired, not a wireless remote. It's OK, but not quite as nice as using the buttons on the regular autopilot. It doesn't have the LCD screen on it. We do have an ST1000, which is what your link shows. I think that the ST2000 would be a little better, because it has a ball screw if I remember correctly, and is faster and a little more powerful, but I'm just happy to have the one I have right now. With a remote, you can have the motor running, and go to the mast to raise the sails. Or, you can go forward and sit at the bow, and steer the boat. We have actually done this several times. But, remember, the reliability isn't 100%. It's maybe 99%, so you still have to keep an eye on things, like crab pots. Also, you sure don't want to fall off the boat. It would just keep going until it runs out of water. The price shouldn't be as much as the price on your link. I got mine from Sailnet, and at that time they were including the wired remote for free, and the cost was $400. That was in 2001. I'm sure that our autopilot has steered our boat 100s of miles since we got it. Don't hesitate to ask me more questions. I wish that I had someone to talk to before I bought ours. There are many other things that I could talk about, like using a GPS and the autopilot, or navigation software and a computer, GPS, and the autopilot, but someone would have to be interested, before I would write about that. I never had much electronics on our boat until my sons got to be teenagers. Now I probably have as much wiring as rope. Aldo
Aldo
" Bilbo: I never thought about the following seas issue in terms of loss of effectiveness of the rudder, but I can really see your point. I always figured that the waves coming from the stern just pushed it, but I can see that the water moving past the rudder in the reverse direction could cause it to loose effectiveness. Anyhow, if you really wanted to address this issue, you would just have to sail at an angle, instead of straight with the wind. I can tell you that I have run with our autopilot doing the steering for over 30 miles, several times. But, it's not ideal, especially if the boat is surfing down the waves. " I believe that the following seas are where people get into troubles. I'm speaking as a canoeist who had dealt in miniature but non the less dangerous situations. So here's as I see it. First as the wave crest begins to go underneath the boat the stern is riding high and slightly out of the water. This gives less bite with the rudder blade or no rudder authority until the wave has just about reached the bow. Second, While traveling downwind, in the extreme weather situation, the boat needs to be pointed rather well in the direction of the waves otherwise since you have no steerage, the boat (If slightly off alignment with the wave) will tend to increase this angle until you are abeam to the wave direction. That is where a large, steep wave could possibly sink a boat. Of course the danger lies in the wave height and in it's steepness. I think that is what makes Lake Erie near me dangerous to small craft. The steep and fast freshwater waves in a relatively shallow lake can reach thhis tipping point.
" Bilbo: I never thought about the following seas issue in terms of loss of effectiveness of the rudder, but I can really see your point. I always figured that the waves coming from the stern just pushed it, but I can see that the water moving past the rudder in the reverse direction could cause it to loose effectiveness. Anyhow, if you really wanted to address this issue, you would just have to sail at an angle, instead of straight with the wind. I can tell you that I have run with our autopilot doing the steering for over 30 miles, several times. But, it's not ideal, especially if the boat is surfing down the waves. " I believe that the following seas are where people get into troubles. I'm speaking as a canoeist who had dealt in miniature but non the less dangerous situations. So here's as I see it. First as the wave crest begins to go underneath the boat the stern is riding high and slightly out of the water. This gives less bite with the rudder blade or no rudder authority until the wave has just about reached the bow. Second, While traveling downwind, in the extreme weather situation, the boat needs to be pointed rather well in the direction of the waves otherwise since you have no steerage, the boat (If slightly off alignment with the wave) will tend to increase this angle until you are abeam to the wave direction. That is where a large, steep wave could possibly sink a boat. Of course the danger lies in the wave height and in it's steepness. I think that is what makes Lake Erie near me dangerous to small craft. The steep and fast freshwater waves in a relatively shallow lake can reach thhis tipping point.
cansail tamer
phil; do you have the cansail tiller tamer? it looks like just what i need. does it "clamp" down on the line by just pushing that handle over? we have a 22 sport, love the boat, its a blast to sail, but i don't like fighting the tiller on long runs. we were looking at the westmarine one, but it uses a knob and i think the cansail one would be easier,faster to use bob lee
phil; do you have the cansail tiller tamer? it looks like just what i need. does it "clamp" down on the line by just pushing that handle over? we have a 22 sport, love the boat, its a blast to sail, but i don't like fighting the tiller on long runs. we were looking at the westmarine one, but it uses a knob and i think the cansail one would be easier,faster to use bob lee
Davis Tiller Tamer
I have been using a Davis Tiller Tamer on my 1973 C22 for at least ten years. some times it's a pain twisting the knob down tight to hold tiller still, but it really works great for long trips. You can snug down the knob to hold some of the strain from the tiller making it easier to hold, and you can still steer the boat easily without loosening the knob. It would really be great if somebody would design a tiller tamer type device with a knob to adjust and hold tension and also have a locking lever so you can lock it solid when needed. Good luck with choosing your options. Barry Broyles C-22 1909 Brighteyes
I have been using a Davis Tiller Tamer on my 1973 C22 for at least ten years. some times it's a pain twisting the knob down tight to hold tiller still, but it really works great for long trips. You can snug down the knob to hold some of the strain from the tiller making it easier to hold, and you can still steer the boat easily without loosening the knob. It would really be great if somebody would design a tiller tamer type device with a knob to adjust and hold tension and also have a locking lever so you can lock it solid when needed. Good luck with choosing your options. Barry Broyles C-22 1909 Brighteyes
Tiller extension lock box
I have a tiller extension lock box but haven't installed it yet. I see from the picture that you have a hole in your tiller for an extension. If you extension has a "ball end" it will find in the lock box just fine. The box mounts aft of the coaming and you simply place your tiller extension end in the box, it slides down and holds the rudder in place for quick trips forward or below. One of the guys in our fleet has it and says it works great. I hope to find out myself later this month
I have a tiller extension lock box but haven't installed it yet. I see from the picture that you have a hole in your tiller for an extension. If you extension has a "ball end" it will find in the lock box just fine. The box mounts aft of the coaming and you simply place your tiller extension end in the box, it slides down and holds the rudder in place for quick trips forward or below. One of the guys in our fleet has it and says it works great. I hope to find out myself later this month
Cansail tamer
I went with the cansail tamer. I tried it out today and am happy with it. Problem solved.
I went with the cansail tamer. I tried it out today and am happy with it. Problem solved.
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