Tiller-rudder connection

pjacobs55 · Sep 25, 2009

The rudder-tiller connection is supposed to have a shear pin, not a bolt. Mine sheared in haulng the boat and in replacing it I found the shear pin to be brittle (shearable) and therefore protective of the connection, which a bolt would not be.

The shear pin is tapered and by driving it home you will likely be able to eliminate the play.

Part is available from McMaster Carr, Los Angeles. You want #90681A293 "no. 4 by 4 inch tapered pin, .167 small end diameter, .250 large end."

The pin is long and after driving it home you will cut it flush and maybe flat file it. It is not a big job. I ordered 2 pins to have a spare.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

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From: JG Brisson
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 7:13 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Tiller-rudder connection Good Morning:

My rudder-tiller connection has developed some play in it that has has
been bothering me for several years and I hope to fix it during this
winter season.

I have removed the tiller from the rudder head post and found that the
hole through the head post has become stretched (elliptical) due to the
repeated stresses over the years. The bolt that makes the connection
can then move in this stretched hole which gives the play in the tiller.

I expect that several of you have had to "fix" this in your own boats
and would be very interested in hearing what you did.

John

--

albinvega3283 · Aug 9, 2010

Nicholas

As Steve Brch does not stock tiller head pins just a thank you to you for giving the details of the US supplier. I have just placed an order and hope that he will ship to the UK.

David Wisdish
V 3293 Ponteneur

brockhaus77 · Jun 4, 2011

I had a lot of play in my tiller-rudder connection, so I decided to follow the excellent advice by Nick Walsh (below). I got the parts from McMasters and found the proper hole for the taper pin (I think; it's the smallest of the three in the last picture in my photo album "VegaLyra". Sure enough, whatever pin used to be in there is broken, so that I can move the "clamping head" left and right and up and down the rudder stock (see previous 3 pictures). However, I can NOT move the clamp all the way off the stock (or turn it all the way around) - there must be some other "catch" that prevents me from doing that - any idea? (I did of course remove both bolts back and front).
The reason I need to know this is because even though the pin is broken, it does not want to budge using any method I've tried so far. Looks like it is pretty hard steel and has sorta "integrated" itself completely into the rudder stock. So I think I'll have to drill it out - or am I doing something wrong here? This would of course be a lot easier if I could remove the clamp - at least I would SEE what I'm trying to remove; but so far, no go (I don't want to use extreme force and destroy something). Any suggestions (including what drills to use etc.) would be very much appreciated!

Sebastian (VegaLyra 1060)

pjacobs55 · Jun 4, 2011

Hmmm ... be very careful trying to drill a hardened pin in a soft piece of gear. The drill will slide off to the side and be quite happy drilling bronze instead of steel.

I think I'd try a shot of good penetrating oil (Tabasco Sauce works well in unfreezing brass and bronze fittings, according to the Canadian Navy) then a good pin punch to knock it out from small end to large end.

You could also try knocking it out with the head in various positions in relation to the shaft. It may be you're not lining up with the exit hole. Anyway, it's a heck of a place to work. Good luck with it ... I'm sure you'll get it out successfully.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

Vega1447 · Jun 7, 2011

I have the same problem - the taper pin is broken and when sailing hard
on the wind the tiller clamp (clamping head) rotates a little.

I carry an Allen key in the cockpit so that if it slips too much I can
quickly reset it.

I'd like to remove the taper pin and replace but it is very difficult to
"get at" it.

Peter's advice not to try to drill the pin out is good.

I destroyed a spreader base/hound when trying to drill out the bolt...
lesson learned.

John V1447 Breakaway

pjacobs55 · Jun 7, 2011

When mine broke, I lined up the tiller and stock just as carefully as I could, and drove out the pin with a hammer and nailset. It was easy, to my great surprise. After I replaced it I scribed a line across the tiller head and the stock, so I can more easily line it up again.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

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From: John Kinsella
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 5:11 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Tiller-rudder connection
I have the same problem - the taper pin is broken and when sailing hard
on the wind the tiller clamp (clamping head) rotates a little.

I carry an Allen key in the cockpit so that if it slips too much I can
quickly reset it.

I'd like to remove the taper pin and replace but it is very difficult to
"get at" it.

Peter's advice not to try to drill the pin out is good.

I destroyed a spreader base/hound when trying to drill out the bolt...
lesson learned.

John V1447 Breakaway

schult.cindy · Jun 7, 2011

Not to try and hijack a thread, but. . . . .
Someone has apparently already drilled out my Vega's pin. When I
disassembled it I found only a large hole - no pin. The slot for the pin is
a mess ( don't drill). Any suggestions when I reassemble? Any idea where I
might find replacement parts? Thanks.

Vega1447 · Jun 7, 2011

On 07/06/11 13:58, Nico Walsh wrote:

pjacobs55 · Jun 7, 2011

I can't exactly remember how I lined them up. I could tell when the rudder was on centerline and I went from there. You have the new pin and the punch should not be fatter than say the diameter of the pin at mid-section. Hardware stores have a variety, cheap.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

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From: John A. Kinsella
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 10:38 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Tiller-rudder connection

Vega1447 · Jun 8, 2011

Hi David. McMaster Carr initially accepted but subsequently cancelled my order of a couple of tapered pins citing difficulties with US export regs!

Were you successful?

If not have you found any local (UK/EU) suppliers?

Thanks.

John V1447 Breakaway
John Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie

j.hunter9999 · Jun 8, 2011

I'm not sure what US export regs might create an issue with two tapered pins. However, I am in the US. If someone needs them, I'd be willing to try to order them and ship them myself.

Jack
Bella - V2620

Vega1447 · Jun 9, 2011

Thanks Jack. If I can't get them here in the E Atlantic I'll take up your offer if it turns out to be practical for you.

All the best

John
V1447 Breakaway

John Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie

pjacobs55 · Jun 9, 2011

They wouldn't send stuff to me in Canada either ... they must have Neanderthal shipping policies.
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

Vega1447 · Jun 12, 2011

A friend has offered to machine some taper pins for me in brass. Would that work? (Too soft to drive in? Difficult to remove?)

Thanks John V1447 Breakaway

John Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie

pjacobs55 · Jun 12, 2011

My guess would be: too soft. I think stainless or carbon steel would be best.... just my e-pinion.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

tim_klynn · Jun 12, 2011

I got my pins from Steve on your side of the pond. -tg

Vega1447 · Jun 13, 2011

Steve B no longer supplies them.

John

Vega1447 · Jun 13, 2011

Hi all.
I may be able to get pins machined in stainless locally.

The McMaster Carr spec quoted here was 4 inches.

Does the pin need to be that long - the machinist tells me that it is
easier to machine a shorted pin.

Any suggestions as to the minimum length that will pass through the
clamp & shaft?

Thanks

John V1447 Breakaway

pjacobs55 · Jun 13, 2011

I would be quite hesitant about using a stainless shear pin. It might not shear - and then you might end up with the internal structure of the rudder deranged!

When I punched out my sheared pin, I found it broken in two places. Obviously the metal was of a certain strength/brittleness, meant for this application.Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

This email is from a law firm and may contain information
that is privileged or confidential. If you suspect
you were not intended to receive this email,
please delete it and contact us.

From: John Kinsella
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 5:48 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Minimum length for taper pin?
Hi all.
I may be able to get pins machined in stainless locally.

The McMaster Carr spec quoted here was 4 inches.

Does the pin need to be that long - the machinist tells me that it is
easier to machine a shorted pin.

Any suggestions as to the minimum length that will pass through the
clamp & shaft?

Thanks

John V1447 Breakaway