Tiller pilot recommendations

Jackdaw · Aug 5, 2015

Both units will work well for your purpose. They both with hold a preset course thanks to a built in compass. The ST1000 will steer the boat to an apparent wind direction (a great plus) if hooked up to seatalk wind data.

CaptDon01 · Aug 5, 2015

I've had some rather extensive experience with both the Raymarine ST1000 and ST2000. Now we sail a lot out in the ocean, so your requirements might be different. We are on autopilot 90% or more while out in the boat either in the ocean, bays, and the intercoastal. We deal with swells, many times in a following sea condition. Both the ST1000 and the ST2000 are more than powerfil for a C-22. But have found the ST1000 to slow to react in a following sea condition and the boat is quickly out of control, even on the close course setting. The ST2000 is basically the same, but uses a recirculating ball drive that is about twice as fast as the ST1000 and is able to hold our course in afolowing sea condition. I also use a wireless remote to adjust or change our course. This allows me to stand in the compainway and safely steer the boat. It's also handy to turn the boat into the wind, or keep it into the wind while standing on the cabin top pulling the main down and seciring it.

Recently we joined in on the North Gulf Coast Cruise. My GPS logged about 150 miles under our keel for the week on the Intercoastal and the Gulf of Mexico. I had the tiller in my handfor email probably less than 5 miles for the entire trip.

An autopilot is one of the best additions we've added, and couldn't image sailing without one. It simply alows you to sit back and enjoy the ride and arrive refreshed and not beat from continuously having to man the tiller, besides, it holds acourse much bettet than I can. But like I said, your requirements may be different than mine.

Don

Joe · Aug 5, 2015

All those units will work well on your 22 footer.... Remember they use battery power so letting them have constant control of the boat will cost you some AH for sure...

The most important thing to remember about tiller pilots is that you really need to have the sail plan balanced.. (trimmed correctly) to the most efficient performance. With a balanced rig there will be very little pressure on the tiller... the software inside the pilot head will adjust to the boat's yawing under the waves if sailing in the ocean.. but it will not compensate for small wind shifts more common when lake sailing. As long as you're aware of the limitations you will find the tiller pilot a tremendous addition to your sailing pleasure.

I will use my tiller pilot when motor sailing or sailing a long tack in consistent conditions. When trimming sails single handed, it is especially handy. I never use it to tack back and forth in a channel..... if I'm single handing I will stand in the cockpit with tiller between my knees and use both hands to handle the sheets during the tack. Once I'm on the new course, I set the TP and have both hands free to trim sails.

It does not work well in many downwind conditions, unless you have twin headsails winged out to each side. With main and headsail reacting to a following wave the device can redline.... so... just be aware of it's limitations.

I have never tried hooking it up to a wind indicator... I simply set the course on the pilot and let its compass steer... if there's a wind shift you can feel it.. i.e. the boat slows down... so you either adjust sails or adjust course. A remote control is not a necessity, especially on a small boat.... I'm too cheap, I guess... it's too easy to heave to if you want to go forward, and it's way safer.

But to reiterate... these things work really well if you balance your sail plan and let the device find it's comfort zone. I once sailed a beam reach for 20 nm in 6 to 8 foot seas without have to alter course or adjust sails. The wind was a constant 15kts... my 20 year old Autohelm 1000 (now owned by Raymarine) worked flawlessly. I had lunch, even took a short nap...

Jackdaw · Aug 6, 2015

MaryEllaRose said:
..
If the auto pilot has an integrated compass, is it necessary to connect it to the vhf radio for gps data?

no

$tingy Sailor · Aug 6, 2015

All good advice given so far.

When I installed my ST1000+, I too wanted to connect it via NMEA 0183 to my Garmin GPS. I wasn't successful and to my knowledge, few people have been with my particular model of GPS. I suspect it's too old.

At any rate, for the casual cruising that I do, it wouldn't be a big benefit anyway. Since it will slavishly aim for your waypoints regardless of the wind conditions, I'd wind up trimming the sails for the course more than taking advantage of the current wind conditions.

I prefer to load all the major geographic features of my cruising area into my GPS and then work the wind to get to any given point at the best speed regardless of how direct my course winds up to be.

For installation tips and photos, click this picture to go to the article on my blog:

Jackdaw · Aug 7, 2015

CaptDon01 said:
I've had some rather extensive experience with both the Raymarine ST1000 and ST2000. Now we sail a lot out in the ocean, so your requirements might be different. We are on autopilot 90% or more while out in the boat either in the ocean, bays, and the intercoastal. We deal with swells, many times in a following sea condition. Both the ST1000 and the ST2000 are more than powerfil for a C-22. But have found the ST1000 to slow to react in a following sea condition and the boat is quickly out of control, even on the close course setting. The ST2000 is basically the same, but uses a recirculating ball drive that is about twice as fast as the ST1000 and is able to hold our course in afolowing sea condition. I also use a wireless remote to adjust or change our course. This allows me to stand in the compainway and safely steer the boat. It's also handy to turn the boat into the wind, or keep it into the wind while standing on the cabin top pulling the main down and seciring it.

Don

ANY AP will have a difficult time keeping a slow, short rolly boat on course downwind with a following sea. People do it much better not because they can move the tiller faster, but because they can anticipate what is going to happen (by looking back + feeling the motion build) and start to react. Low-end units can't do that. They only react the boat falling off course, and try to react to that.

Longer faster boats help. And advanced pilots have some intelligent logic in them that helps then learn wave patterns, along with 3-D sensors then help them detect them. Quicker lock-to-lock times help, but the diif between the ST1000 and ST2000 is 7 seconds vs 8. Not a huge difference.

I know lots of people that do the shorthanded transpac that use ST1000s on their boats and prefer them. They do a fine job steering, and they find them more reliable.

azguy · Aug 7, 2015

MaryEllaRose said:
I'm still working on that sail balancing act....

Honestly, work on it now with the tiller tamer, in the beginning I woulds set my course with the tiller tamer and wonder why I was always playing with to stay on that course. Then I started playing with the main and found that with the proper sail balance once the tiller tamer was set I could go a good ling way.

Keep in mind I'm on a lake so a good log way is relative, but I'm talking 15 to 20 minute patches I don't need to touch anything before I need to tack

CloudDiver · Aug 7, 2015

I'm not expert on tiller pilots because I've little to no experience with them, but one was installed by the PO of my boat so I plan to keep the mounting set up and get a new unit. Just from observation (comparison shopping) and then bouncing that off your recommendations here; the difference in price between the ST1000 and ST2000 is only about $100 (roughly $400 then $500). So are the differences in features, motor drive actuator, and features well worth the extra $$$? At this point it seems to me if I am ready to spend at least $400 I could probably spring for the extra $100.

Jackdaw said:
ANY AP will have a difficult time keeping a slow, short rolly boat on course downwind with a following sea. People do it much better not because they can move the tiller faster, but because they can anticipate what is going to happen (by looking back + feeling the motion build) and start to react. Low-end units can't do that. They only react the boat falling off course, and try to react to that.

Longer faster boats help. And advanced pilots have some intelligent logic in them that helps then learn wave patterns, along with 3-D sensors then help them detect them. Quicker lock-to-lock times help, but the diif between the ST1000 and ST2000 is 7 seconds vs 8. Not a huge difference.

I know lots of people that do the shorthanded transpac that use ST1000s on their boats and prefer them. They do a fine job steering, and they find them more reliable.

Jackdaw · Aug 7, 2015

CloudDiver said:
I'm not expert on tiller pilots because I've little to no experience with them, but one was installed by the PO of my boat so I plan to keep the mounting set up and get a new unit. Just from observation (comparison shopping) and then bouncing that off your recommendations here; the difference in price between the ST1000 and ST2000 is only about $100 (roughly $400 then $500). So are the differences in features, motor drive actuator, and features well worth the extra $$$? At this point it seems to me if I am ready to spend at least $400 I could probably spring for the extra $100.

I have no issue with that!

Gene Neill · Aug 7, 2015

$tingy Sailor said:
All good advice given so far.

When I installed my ST1000+, I too wanted to connect it via NMEA 0183 to my Garmin GPS.

What does that do for you? Steer you to a point rather than a heading?

CaptDon01 · Aug 7, 2015

I will have to politely disagree, all I can reference is the difference I have experienced between a ST1000 and the ST2000 on a C-22 with literally 100's of miles use on a C-22, others may have a different experience when you used your's on a C-22.

Don

Jackdaw · Aug 7, 2015

CaptDon01 said:
I will have to politely disagree, all I can reference is the difference I have experienced between a ST1000 and the ST2000 on a C-22 with literally 100's of miles use on a C-22, others may have a different experience when you used your's on a C-22.

Don

Don, you're probably right. The st2000 is quicker than I thought/remember. It probably helps when a small boat is shidding down a wave.

Alan Gomes · Aug 8, 2015

Gene Neill said:
What does that do for you? Steer you to a point rather than a heading?

I have my ST2000 interfaced with my Garmin 546S. I'd say it's mildly useful to do so and because it was so easy to hook up I went ahead and did it.

Specifically, what it does is steer the boat to a waypoint. If you have a route set (i.e., a series of waypoints), the autopilot will beep when it approaches the current waypoint and require a keypress to steer you to the next one in the route. If you so authorize it, it will then steer to the next point in the route, and so forth.

Some have suggested that there is something inherently unsafe about this, but I fail to see what it is. Assuming that one is not an idiot and doesn't set a waypoint to be exactly on top of a buoy or the like, it's no more dangerous than having an autopilot per se. It will not mindlessly make turns or alter course without user confirmation so no dangers there.

I guess I'd say that it's worth having if it's easy enough for you to wire it in, but far from necessary and I wouldn't go through a ton of trouble to set it up.

$tingy Sailor · Aug 15, 2015

Sorry I didn't reply earlier. I was off the grid this past week.

The tiller bracket shown in the pic above is a stock Raymarine part to level the unit between the coaming mount (in my case) and the tiller. Depending on where you mount the stationary end of the unit (cantilevered, laz lid, etc.), you might need a shorter or no bracket. The one shown is the tallest they make. Although the parts to mount the unit that way make the installation more expensive, I like it there because I can still get into the lazarette if I need to with the unit in use and I can easily swing the ST1000 over onto the coaming and lash it to the pushpit stanchion with a velcro strap when its not in use and I don't have to remove it completely.

As for my traveler setup, it's the stock '81 rigging. I don't use it often because of the small range of adjustment and because my mainsail is fairly blown out anyway so it doesn't have much effect.

Ward H · Aug 16, 2015

I went with the ST2000 over the ST1000 due to the reports that the inner mechanisms of the ST2000 are more robust. While connecting it to the chart plotter sounds like fun, my sailing area is not that complicated that I need to use routes. I use the AP to point into the wind to raise the main, then I set the course by hand. Once on course I set the AP to hold it. I then practice setting the sails so the AP has little work to do. Depending on my mood, I may let the AP main the helm all day or I man it and only use the AP when I need both hands for something else.
It was money well spent.