We're new to sailing and looking at some 27's and would like some feedback on either. i was on a c25 two weeks ago and i noticed there was considerable pressure on the tiller when close hauled. i can only imagine a 27 would be even more. And of course a wheel affords you less room in the cockpit. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks,
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Malcolm Palmer
More Room With a Wheel
We were racing in a C&C 27 this weekend. My wife still has bruises from the tiller hitting her legs. Even with lifting it up, the tiller sweeps through a large part of the cockpit and you really have to watch out that you don't hit someone. We have a wheel and everyone can relax without moving around every time we change direction.
We were racing in a C&C 27 this weekend. My wife still has bruises from the tiller hitting her legs. Even with lifting it up, the tiller sweeps through a large part of the cockpit and you really have to watch out that you don't hit someone. We have a wheel and everyone can relax without moving around every time we change direction.
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Tom
Advantages to both
I have sailed with both a tiller and a wheel and there are advantages to both. A tiller may take up less room in the cockpit but everytime you tack everyone has to move in the cockpit because you have to move the tiller where people are sitting. A wheel takes up more room in the cockpit but does not create any space problems when you tack. The big disadvantage of a wheel is that you never are sure when you have the rudder straight. The tiller is more responsive also. There is a delay between when you turn the wheel and the boat responds which you have to get used to. I decided to get a wheel when I brought my boat. Tom S/V No Problem
I have sailed with both a tiller and a wheel and there are advantages to both. A tiller may take up less room in the cockpit but everytime you tack everyone has to move in the cockpit because you have to move the tiller where people are sitting. A wheel takes up more room in the cockpit but does not create any space problems when you tack. The big disadvantage of a wheel is that you never are sure when you have the rudder straight. The tiller is more responsive also. There is a delay between when you turn the wheel and the boat responds which you have to get used to. I decided to get a wheel when I brought my boat. Tom S/V No Problem
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Bob Todd
I've owned both...
and prefer the wheel. I find the cockpit much more comfortable with a wheel. As for centering the rudder, a little rigging tape at the top of the wheel solves that. Linkage to my web page below. Cheers, Bob
and prefer the wheel. I find the cockpit much more comfortable with a wheel. As for centering the rudder, a little rigging tape at the top of the wheel solves that. Linkage to my web page below. Cheers, Bob
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David Foster
What are you looking for?
A tiller gives the clearest feedback and fastest response to the helmsman/woman. It also costs less, looks good, and swings up to clear the whole cockpit at anchor, or at the dock. Finally, its simple, reliable and low maintenance compared to a wheel. It's practical on boats around 30 feet or less, so it is the most common solution for these boats. "considerable pressure on the tiller when close hauled" is called "weather helm." There are some good recent discussions in the archives on the causes and solutions of weather helm. Old, blown out sails are the most common cause, followed by the way the rig is set up, tuned, and sailed. Using the increased mechanical advantage of a wheel to solve a problem with weather helm means that the rudder will always be braking the boat. And heel and probability of broaching will also be higher than necessary. I would not see weather helm as a reason to have a wheel - it should be reduced by properly balancing the sailplan with the boat. Why a wheel, then? For larger boats, the size of the rudder makes the increased mechanical advantage a necessity, at the cost of feel and quickness. On medium sized boats, 25 to 30 feet, the reasons also include liking the look of a wheel, a special need for the mechanical advantage, and elimination of the tiller movement back and forth across the cockpit. (Somehow, this is not a problem on our h27, but we do have to sort out how crew and passengers can get by the tiller when coming about, etc.) So some medium sized boats have a wheel. It's your choice, but I don't recommend using a wheel to correct weather helm. David Lady Lillie
A tiller gives the clearest feedback and fastest response to the helmsman/woman. It also costs less, looks good, and swings up to clear the whole cockpit at anchor, or at the dock. Finally, its simple, reliable and low maintenance compared to a wheel. It's practical on boats around 30 feet or less, so it is the most common solution for these boats. "considerable pressure on the tiller when close hauled" is called "weather helm." There are some good recent discussions in the archives on the causes and solutions of weather helm. Old, blown out sails are the most common cause, followed by the way the rig is set up, tuned, and sailed. Using the increased mechanical advantage of a wheel to solve a problem with weather helm means that the rudder will always be braking the boat. And heel and probability of broaching will also be higher than necessary. I would not see weather helm as a reason to have a wheel - it should be reduced by properly balancing the sailplan with the boat. Why a wheel, then? For larger boats, the size of the rudder makes the increased mechanical advantage a necessity, at the cost of feel and quickness. On medium sized boats, 25 to 30 feet, the reasons also include liking the look of a wheel, a special need for the mechanical advantage, and elimination of the tiller movement back and forth across the cockpit. (Somehow, this is not a problem on our h27, but we do have to sort out how crew and passengers can get by the tiller when coming about, etc.) So some medium sized boats have a wheel. It's your choice, but I don't recommend using a wheel to correct weather helm. David Lady Lillie
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Guest
Out of Balance
Hi John, Some (weather helm) presure on the tiller/wheel is a must for safety. Weather or lee helm is normally the result of sail trim/sail plan. More weather helm = slower speed and increased force to head the boat up into the wind. Reduce weather helm by reefing main, trimming main, or letting off in gusts. The amount of tiller/wheel pressure is not a function of boat lenght. A well balanced boat will have a bit of weather helm. This will result in the boat naturally heading up into the wind with gusts spilling some wind. A boat with lee helm will veer off in gusts resulting in an unsafe condition. Wheels should have larger cockpits. 30' boats with full after section have enough cockpit space. You will see some 25 - 27' with a wheel but few for good reason. Think you will find 27' with diesel aux. better in all aspects. Good luck,
Hi John, Some (weather helm) presure on the tiller/wheel is a must for safety. Weather or lee helm is normally the result of sail trim/sail plan. More weather helm = slower speed and increased force to head the boat up into the wind. Reduce weather helm by reefing main, trimming main, or letting off in gusts. The amount of tiller/wheel pressure is not a function of boat lenght. A well balanced boat will have a bit of weather helm. This will result in the boat naturally heading up into the wind with gusts spilling some wind. A boat with lee helm will veer off in gusts resulting in an unsafe condition. Wheels should have larger cockpits. 30' boats with full after section have enough cockpit space. You will see some 25 - 27' with a wheel but few for good reason. Think you will find 27' with diesel aux. better in all aspects. Good luck,
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Peter Roach
If you are going for curising
You should try to get a wheel. Much easier to sail for new people guests. You have less 'feel' for the boat but it is worth it. Since you are new to boats you should also try to get a boat with the traveler outside of the cockpit. A lot of stuff will be going on and you don't want to have to mess with that as well. (If your planning on racing - ignore all that advice)
You should try to get a wheel. Much easier to sail for new people guests. You have less 'feel' for the boat but it is worth it. Since you are new to boats you should also try to get a boat with the traveler outside of the cockpit. A lot of stuff will be going on and you don't want to have to mess with that as well. (If your planning on racing - ignore all that advice)
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JPF
Tiller...
I have a wheel on my current boat, but prefer a tiller. I had a tiller on my last boat , a Catalina 27. I found it to be much better for single-handing or sailing with inexperienced crew. This was because I could put the tiller between my thighs and still steer while trimming the main and jib sheets. No need for an autopilot! Also, a tiller is more responsive than a wheel.
I have a wheel on my current boat, but prefer a tiller. I had a tiller on my last boat , a Catalina 27. I found it to be much better for single-handing or sailing with inexperienced crew. This was because I could put the tiller between my thighs and still steer while trimming the main and jib sheets. No need for an autopilot! Also, a tiller is more responsive than a wheel.
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Bill
Wheel
We like the wheel as my wife usualy takes the helm on the way out. Tiller on a boat of our size, 30, can come back and trap the person. Bill
We like the wheel as my wife usualy takes the helm on the way out. Tiller on a boat of our size, 30, can come back and trap the person. Bill
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Rob R.
Tiller!
Man, having sailed both, I can only recommend a tiller. Don't get me wrong - the wheel looks really nice and allows everyone to stay in one place. But, if you just want to sail and derive the maximum pleasure from ding so, try the visceral feel of a tiller and compare it to a wheel. Then buy which ever you like better. Personally, I just love me tiller.
Man, having sailed both, I can only recommend a tiller. Don't get me wrong - the wheel looks really nice and allows everyone to stay in one place. But, if you just want to sail and derive the maximum pleasure from ding so, try the visceral feel of a tiller and compare it to a wheel. Then buy which ever you like better. Personally, I just love me tiller.
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Leighton
Tiller
I've sailed both too and the most responsive has been the tiller especially on boats that are 30 feet and lower. I originally was looking for a wheel too but after awhile I decided that a smaller boat with a tiller was like driving a car with rack and pinion steering!
I've sailed both too and the most responsive has been the tiller especially on boats that are 30 feet and lower. I originally was looking for a wheel too but after awhile I decided that a smaller boat with a tiller was like driving a car with rack and pinion steering!
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