Tiller head cracked.

caguy

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
The tiller head flange cracked on the C27. I noticed that the tiller seemed sloppy a long time ago but assumed it was the characteristic of the boat. While replacing the sheaves on the traveler I noticed it was cracked. Should have taken a picture of it but the phone was 10ft down in the truck.
Seems like a lousy design for cast bronze. I am afraid of cracking the replacement one. Any suggestions or recommended torque?
Will the rudder fall out when old cap removed?
 

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Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,049
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Frank, in most cases, yes. Don't remove the bolt unless you're supporting the rudder. Why? Cuz it's the only thing holding it in. That casting was used on tons of different Catalinas before they changed the design once the walk through transmoms were produced (think about it, the rudder head was under the deck, so they couldn't use this design; true to wheel as well as tiller).

The C27 Association could help you out big time here. You are in contact with them, right?

Torque isn't an issue, since the bolt simply needs to be kept captive. It's in shear from the vertical loads from the rudderstock.
 
caguy

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
I was thinking more in terms of the flange bolt. I assume that it clamps the rudder post to keep it from rotating and account for the slop in the tiller.
I'll be sure to block up the rudder before removing the retaining bolt.
I belong to the C-27 yahoo group and will look their as well.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,049
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Frank, I understand your issue better now. I must admit I'm not that familiar with the details of the construction of that particular model. But two things come to mind:

1. Castings are PITA. A perfect example is the old cast alternator brackets on M25 engines. They fail catastrophically. However, for the use in a rudder head, not too bad, since there's not a whole lot of continual and heavy-duty vibration. A thick enough wall section should suffice for a rudderhead.

2. Flange bolt - kinda sounds like the connection of a shaft coupling to a shaft. Is there a dimple on the rudder shaft? If not, can you gouge one in?
 
caguy

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
Haven't had that coupler of yet but I have a feeling that Catalina was relying on friction of the coupler clamping down to hold the shaft from rotating. The through bolt right now is the only thing keeping it from rotating. The crack 1/16" gap is right at the tip of the arrow but on the other side.
I'll be picking another one up at the salvage yard on Friday.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,049
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Frank, on our boat there are screws tied with monel on the shaft coupling. I agree, though, don't know if there are dimples or just a "press fit" but it's been working for the past 26 years! :)

Maybe it's just the rust holding them together...:eek:

Good luck.
 
caguy

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
That is my concern I have no idea what that through bolt looks like after 30 years of banging back and forth. I just wonder if that is how you occasionally hear about someone losing a Catalina rudder?
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,049
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
The only rudder losses I've ever heard about are from someone removing the through bolt with the boat in the water or the rudder unsupported when on the hard.

Skippers should always check their rudders for weeping when hauled out to assure that the internal structure is still sound.
 
caguy

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
Something's should be left to the pros.

Had cap welded yesterday and he did a great job. That shouldn't break again. Notice the small dimes he laid down. Worth every bit of $20 and then some.
 

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SawyerCurt

SawyerCurt

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Dec 16, 2011
260
Catalina 310 Atlantic Highlands
I had a 1988 C34 and the emergency tiller head had a series of cracks. It was the first boat I owned, so I didn't realize it was the only thing holding the rudder in. When I went to remove the head I took out the bolt and then the head broke off in a series of pieces, which resulted in the rudder slipping down just far enough that I couldn't get the bolt through the replacement head and into the bolt holes on the rudder post (I was in the water at the time). I managed to get the rudder post up and the bolt through, but without the emergency head on. Luckily, it was the end of the season and as soon as I had her hauled out I had someone support the rudder so I could get everything installed correctly. But I came close to having the entire rudder drop off. I think being in the water probably saved me a cracked or damaged rudder.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,049
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Understood. That's why anyone with a C34 should become familiar not only with this GREAT website/forum, but with the C34IA website. Details abound there specific to the C34 as well as other boat systems. That bolt holds the shaft up, since the quadrant isn't designed to do that.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your C34, IIRC you got whammed in Sandy.

SawyerCurt said:
I had a 1988 C34 and the emergency tiller head had a series of cracks. It was the first boat I owned, so I didn't realize it was the only thing holding the rudder in. When I went to remove the head I took out the bolt and then the head broke off in a series of pieces, which resulted in the rudder slipping down just far enough that I couldn't get the bolt through the replacement head and into the bolt holes on the rudder post (I was in the water at the time). I managed to get the rudder post up and the bolt through, but without the emergency head on. Luckily, it was the end of the season and as soon as I had her hauled out I had someone support the rudder so I could get everything installed correctly. But I came close to having the entire rudder drop off. I think being in the water probably saved me a cracked or damaged rudder.
Click to expand
 
SawyerCurt

SawyerCurt

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Dec 16, 2011
260
Catalina 310 Atlantic Highlands
Stu - Thanks! The C34IA website is a FANTASTIC resource and I used information from there extensively in the many projects I had to do over the 2 years I owned her, pre-Sandy. I was one of the last boats hauled out the weekend before the hurricane and I was only a row back from the water. The devastation was unbelievable for us and many, many marinas in the area. The Atlantic Highlands harbor suffered extensive damage, but everything was back better than before by the end of last season and we're looking forward to a GREAT season this year.

Curt Sawyer
"Jacqueline"
2001 C310 #48
Treasurer, Atlantic Highlands Yacht Club
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

.
Feb 26, 2004
23,049
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Curt, you have a great "replacement" "platform" - have a great season. Same engines, IIRC. :)
 
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