Thunder haul

[Shippy]

Pete

Pete, as Ross already commented, you can sail the channel and sometime we do if in no particular hurry, the winds are directionally favorable and its not powerboat hell. It is a fairly narrow channel at points and we've watched many a sailboat and a few powerboaters run aground by being only 15 feet out of teh channel at spots. We usually powersail out the channel. One other thing to watch out for besides the powerboaters is the fact that it is a working channel, meaning tugs pushing barges loaded with stone. It gets real fun when you have two passing each other in the channel and you are under sail, hence we motor sail more often.As for up river, we can make it under the bridges and go up towards Port Deposit. It gets shallow just before you reach it but it isn't a bad little trip. Mostly fisherman and powerboaters coming out of Port Deposit.

 

[Moose]

Thunder Storm Sailing ...

For those that don't take this subject serously, please get off the water .... All of us at one time or another have been caught on the water and been unable to avoid a confrontation with Mother Nature. If you have a motor, use it and stow the sails, if you are confident in your sailing skills, reef, reef, and reef.... maintain steerage and ensure all aboard are wearing PFDs. There is absolutely no substitute for safety. If we could avoid those nasty run-ins with T-Storms life would be wonderful. Seasoned sailors are first to admit, no two situations are the same... Be a good Boy Scout, BE PREPARED! I have included a link that is helpful and for those that still don't know what a Squall is, again, please stay off the water or at least, out of mine Happy Sailing, Moose, Wotan, Chance 30/30

 

[Blue Grace]

Havre de Grace

As the years go by, it is cerainly getting harder to tack the Havre de Grace channel, but your problems are only serious between just South of bouy 14 and North of bouy 15. A few feet inside bouy 14 there is a wall of sand, water goes from 11 feet to 3 feet in about 20 feet distance. On the other side of the channel there is a grown mudbank, every year it encraches a little more upon the channel, and if you hit this, there is a good chance you won't be able to get yourself off.I draw 6'4", and regularly sail the channel, but you really need to know where the lumps are. There are two ways of doing this - by experience, which sucks, or by observation; just watch where others are aground!The worst kind of storm on the bay is the one you only see at the last moment - those are when the sky is grey to the West, there are no evident thunderheads, and the storm hits in seconds. In busy waters these storms are really a hazzard, as visibily is suddenly reduced to nil, and even without sails, the wind will move your boat along at 6 knots.

 

[Wandering Cs]

June 1 to November 30, Hurricane and Storm Season

South West Florida is the lightening capital of "something", lots of it. If you want to leave the dock during storm season, it is mostly no wind (and hot) or too much (and wet). Guess it is a choice of wanting to play or hide. Safety is important, only a fool would think otherwise; in Ft Myers we do get a few days without storms each season and they will go around us sometimes. Bottom line is play or hide...There are too many variables to say what I would do when. Action is decided by the storm and location. I have run from them, thru them, sails up and down, anchored or hove to; each is handled as it comes. Please do not think I like storms, they can be very scary and challenge all your skills, othertimes you think, I did all that for such a wimpy squall. My spreader tips have disappeared as well. You must trust your boat and yourself. Learn how to do what, and when, then practice, and have fun. Life is so short.Reading the responses, including mine, there appears to be little experience and less respect for a thunderstorm than I would hope and pray for. A thunderstorm can kill you and yours, quick! At minimum, the captain MUST know what he / she is doing. Safely controlling a sailboat in high wind is not a joke and most stories at the bar are "invented". Take this subject seriously, learn, practice, practice, and enjoy. As I said earlier: Life is So Short!

 

[Ross]

Blue, I must have missed those lumps

but Nancy got outside of the channel in that area and almost hit a tree two years ago. Remember that one that had washed down during Isobel?

 

[Greg]

T-Storms

I've been caught in a few T-storms when I sailed out of Long Island. Mostly in a 30 footer. First there is no one solution for all storms/squalls. If near shelter, go for it. You may be in an area that you can't get in and anchored in time, but also don't want to be blown up on a lee shore. This is a worse deal than being way out in open water. This is because you will have to make way to windward. Not easy to do in a hard blow. The 30' boat had an inboard diesel, so the motor could be fired up and sails taken in and you could power to deeper more open water, but my present boat is just a 23 footer and uses an out board, that when the seas come up, wouldn't get you to windward at all. This means that with my present boat, I would take in the yankee, reef down the main and beat towards open water. Of corse you will also be closing everything up, and fastening down all hatches. I only use a harness now, as the water up where I am now only gets up to about 40 f by the end of August, so a life jacket is only in the way, though it would make finding the froozen body easier. I sail solo mostly so I don't have to worry about watching or checking up on others. If you can, get a fix and write it down. Electronics can and do go out, especailly in a thunder storm. Try and keep track of your headings and try and keep at least some sort of DR. Remember we're talking about being caught near a lee shore. If all else fails, you will need to drop your #1 anchor. Mine is always at the ready, how fast can you set yours, especially in a storm? A sea anchor or heaving to in this case would only delay the grounding and most likley loosing your boat on the rocks. Oh eay way to keep notes in a storm is with a grease pencil, just write on your seat. Paper not only doesn't like water but also likes to blow away.

 

[Joe Lupton on XTASEA]

July 4th Bay Swuall line!

About fifteen yeas ago, a lady friend and I were approaching Soloman Island, MD from the South around Cedar Point. It had been a motor sailing day with no wind and we had the boom awning up providing us with some shade. My friend got up to go below and happened to look to the NW. Her remark that it looked dark was an understatement! The sky in that quadrent had turned black and there was a line of roll clouds on the horizon! The clouds were the cummulo mammutus type indicating severe weather. I had her turn to the WX Channel on the VHF and it was broadcasting a tornado warning for the entire area! I knew we only had a few minutes to prepare. We quickly dropped the awning, put on our foulies, and donned our PFDs. Since the sails were already stowed, we didn't have to deal with that. We had no sooner put in the hatch boards than the squall line hit us. The wind went from slick water calm to a reported 70 mph in less than thirty seconds! The engine on my boat didn't have enough power to allow us to keep the bow into the wind, so I just tried to avoid other vessels in the reduced visibility. The wind driven rain actually hurt and reduced visibility to about 100 yards or less! The boat was heeling thirty degrees with no sails up. For some reason, I don't remember any thunder in this storm. This same storm caused two ships to collide in the Thimble Shoal Channel going into Hampton Roads. Any sails up in that wind would have created a real problem for anyone. I didn't have time to consider trying to set the hook and ride it out, but I have done that in other storms. Got hit by lightening once while anchored!. It took out a lot of electronics! If you sail aanywhere in the South in the summer, you need to have a plan on how to deal with the storms. I feel that a single cell thunderstorm can be delt with, but they are unpredictable. A squall line is another thing entirely. The potiental for winds over fifty knots is much greater!Joe

 

[henkmeuzelaar]

Pacific T-storms

Having reported (link) on our barepoled, rail-down T-storm adventure in the Chesapeake Bay I can confirm the very high winds & relatively short duration. IMHO, the worst T-storms there are not meant to sail through, or even heave-to in. There is fairly general agreement that heaving-to is not the proper answer in winds above 40-50 mph, as the vessel may become overwhelmed and the sail(s) destroyed. Moreover, in many areas of the Chesapeake Bay there will be insufficient sea room to be hove-to, even for only 15-30 minutes. By contrast, West-coast T-storms in the Channel Islands area usually come in over the ocean and, while also packing lots of lightning plus rough seas, we have never (yet?) seen the Force 9, 10 or higher winds accompanying some E coast T-storms. Also, there is often more sea room and therefore a larger range of options. As Rivendel II's Pacific range gradually increased to Hawaii, the ICZ (around the equator) and the South Pacific these observations remained essentially the same. So perhaps, there is indeed such a thing as a "Pacific T-storm". If you ever encounter one, this would be my advice:(1) try to estimate the vertical build-up from afar; e.g. by observing whether the movement of the T-storm tracks that of the surface wind (some of the tallest ones may even sneak up on you from a downwind position);(2) try to estimate the location of the center, direction of movement and ETA from radar images (if you can't detect the T-storm on your radar at all, chances are it is only minor);(3) if it is associated with a major squall line try to determine where the line is thinnest or least dense within your navigable sector while keeping a watchful eye on possible waterspouts or beginning funnel cloud formation; (4) based on (1-3)determine your optimum heading and choice of sails or decide to heave-to. Sometimes one can avoid the T-storm altogether (but don't reef too early in order to keep sufficient power and speed), or sail between two separate storms. Sometimes you are going to be swallowed up no matter what, or will have to cross an almost stationary squall line with some lightning activity, e.g. associated with pressure troughs. On several occasions we made a short foray under (or into) a stationnary squall line (under double reefed main and staysail) in order to test the severity of the wind and rain conditions inside, before committing ourselves to crossing over to the other side. Interestingly, the wind direction on the other side may change enough that you have almost no choice but to keep tacking back and forth under that darn squall line in order to maintain some VMG towards your destination. Have fun,Flying Dutchman

 

[tom h]

lqake eerie

Couple of things. We have a thong up here called a durecho. It's a sideways tornado. I saw one on the 4th of july '69 that sunk numerous boats, tore up marinas, felled trees, and killed 3. A wall of water 5-7 feet high went across placid water. Behind the wall was a maelstrom. I saw boats flip, go 90 over, run onto rocks, all withing a few minutes. There was no warning that anyone saw. The worst one I heard of cleared a path or downed trees from Minnesota to Maine. Winds typically start in the 70's, and go up, fast.We had a blow on Lake Eire a few years ago. A captain of a tall ship, who just entered the Lake from the St. Laurence, go thit. Burried his rail, which he said never happened in 10 years of ocean sailng on this boat. Broke the foremast in half, about 50 feet up. That mast wqs about 2.5 feet in diameter. Scared the bejesus out of him and his school age crew. We take down the sail NOW. Put on any gear we can, most important, lifejackets. Get helmets, if possible against hail, and run the motor and head into it. Mostly though, for some meteorlogical reason, the city buffers us from the worst stuff. They either go north or south of us. But we usually only go a few miles out. If close enough, we head for cover.Sawone comming in once and went right through a sailboat regatta. Boy were they ticked off. We made it in and they didn't as they kept on racing. When they came in, several boats had shreaded sails.

 

[patn44@yahoo.com]

Black horizons

Once when I was in need of some minor repairs on my engine and the summer weather was blazing hot, I went out on Lake Ponchartrain about a mile from the harbor and put down anchor. This allowed me some slight breeze below. After about an hour of working I decided to take a break and went on deck to scan the area. It was a Sunday afternoona and there must have been a hundred boats on the lake. I looked north toward Mandeville and the sky was black. Not dark...black. Knowing the speed that storms can travel in our Gulf Coast area, I pulled the anchor up, dumped it on the deck and put up the jib (the motor was overheating which is why I was out there in the first place). At that point, just about 15 min. in all the wind hit us and boats careened all over the place. One fellow had his spinnaker up and it just exploded. Another went off on a 90' run and out of controll. I quickly yanked my jib down, dumpted it below and sailed in under bare poles. As I got to the harbor entrance I kicked on the engine and smoke be damned motored into the slip. went to the harbor masters office and asked about the wind as they had a graphic meter there. He said it hit at 40 knots the first wall, and then hit again at 60 knots. Boats on the lake went over, one woman was lost and drowned and seveal friends lost their boats that day. Summer Squalls in our area are vicious and should be avoided if at all possible. But if you cannot at least get the sails down and stowed.

 

[Mike]

Thunderstorms

I have a question, Do these thunderstorms build big waves? By big, I mean over 5'. The only big waves I've seen are from long term strong wind associated with a front. Lightening is always a worry, but it seems your're just as likely to be hit in a slip or anchorage as caught out in open water. 80 kt gust scarry but what could it do other than knock you over in which you'll just right, assuming you have a well-found keelboat. Are these really to be feared that much if you take proper preperations?-MikeMackinaw area Michigan

 

[capn Bill]

Things happen quickly

I see where most of the respondents seem to think they can head back to port in time. In my own experiance, this is often NOT the case! On the Great Lakes, storm squalls can come on you faster than you can respond. By far the best thing you can do while you're trying to get back to a "safe" harbor, is to drop the sails and start the engine. This way you will be manouverable when the winds hit. And - VERY important! Watch those lines! Get them all on-board and secure! Bill on STARGAZER

 

[Barry C]

Novice here

Haven't yet have to deal with actually being out in a storm. Must have good natural dopler because more than once I have just finished closing the boat up at home as the clouds open up on me as I walked to the car. My wife has a real fear of being on the water during a T-storm. I on the other hand would like to try everything I've learned about how to handle rough weather. Funny but know one seems to be willing to do that with me.

 

[Ugadawg]

Drop the sails & start the engine

I have first-hand experience with a fast-moving storm on Lake Lanier, GA. After one of those perfect sailing days(warm, constant steady breeze), we were within sight of the marina when we saw the storm marching north-to-south straight down the lake. We felt like we could beat the storm on our final tack, but as we emerged from the lee side of an island, my O'day 26 with a 12 knot-rated 135% genoa and main was immediately knocked down - but quickly recovered only to be knocked down twice more before we got the hanked-on genoa down and I was able to reach the mainsheet on the traveler and pop it loose from behind the wheel. Luckily, I was able to get the diesel cranked and had us moving into the wind without any warm-up. The two crew getting the genoa down were experienced blue-water sailers, and they were hanging on for dear life! I decided after that harrowing experience that the sails come down and the engine gets cranked as soon as ANY storm is sighted! I've never seen a storm move as quickly as that one did.Neil Franklin

 

[John F]

Thunderstorm on Lake Erie

I don't need to prove my mettle as a sailor by staying out in a thunderstorm if I am just daysailing. A couple years ago when I was crewing in the Wednesday night races, a thunderstorm cropped up. It rained like crazy. I had never been on the lake in a t-storm before and it was scary. The only thing our skipper said was, "don't touch the shrouds." It took me 3 days to dry out.

 

[Buz Page]

Thinderstorms

Thunder storms...Prep depends on size of boat and depht of water. Big or small boat, reef. Go from there.Buz

 

[Cpt. Drew]

What to do when a thunderstorm hits?

I learned my ropes on Lake Sakakawea in North Dakota, a great sailing lake with over 1600 miles of shoreline, lots of wind, and frequent summertime thunderstorms. First, if I have a convenient anchorage close at hand, I like pulling in and setting a couple of anchors with plenty of scope--ride the storm at anchor. If no good anchorage anchorage is available, I'd rather be "at sea" with a much sea room as possible. Put as many reefs in the main as I have (I have 3 on my 1967 Westerly 25, put on the storm jib (a great sail to have)and ride it; or, I keep a coast guard approved sea anchor aboard, and I've used that from time to time. On the 1988 Pacific Seacraft Dana24 that I have a part ownership in (it left North Dakota for a spot in a charterfeet at Anacortes) I use a slightly different approach. First, if it's ugly, and I have a good anchorage, set the anchors, and wait. Why beat yourself to death. If I can't anchor, the Dana is cutter rigged, and the staysail can be reefed, and both reef lines in the main are lead aft. Preferred action at sea 1. reef the main to the 2nd reef 2.furl the foresail, and 3. set the staysail (reefed or not as appropriate. If tired, heave to. As you can tell from my choice of boats, I prefer heavy displacement boats that are small enough to single hand if necessary. This is a preference learned from hammer college---the school of hard knocks. My first boat was a 1973 Aquarius 23, and it really wasn't very comfortable in heavy wind. A good sea anchor was the only adequate "at sea" approach to riding out a thunderstorm. Drop sails, deploy the sea anchor, and wait it out below. The heavy boats are more sea kindly in every way if 30+ knot winds/thunderstorms are a regular part of your sailing life. My advice. Forget buying a new lightweight boat (like a McGregor 26X); look for an older stronger boat that can take some heavy weather if you like to cruise about. Spend the money on jiffy reefing (and learn to reef quickly), and buy a storm jib. In my experience, the biggest scare in most heavy weather situations is having too much sail up.

 

[Tim Welsh]

First Hand Experience

About 15 years ago I was caught in a BAD thunderstorm with over 60mph gust. Lightning was cracking overhead and the little 8 horse on the Starwind 27 just wouldn't do it. I felt like Gilligan When I was taking the main down. Powerless barepoled, I threw out 300 feet of anchorline in 80 feet of water. Well 1 1/2 hours later we were motoring back in on the Calmest I have ever seen Heber Springs. Ever since that storm I have always taken heed to thunderstorms and have found a safe anchorage. If its just rain and wind (or sleet or snow) I will keep on pushing on and have a blast. Page 69 of this Months (May Issue) Lats and Atts shows what a lightning strike will do.....My boat made it on page 72 of the same Issue, and on I took of a Buddy on page 70. Tim Welsh Hunter 34 S/V Cabo Wabo

 

[Stu]

In the words of Nelson,,,,

In the words of the dying Admiral Nelson to his flag Captain after the victory at Trafalgar,"you do anchor, Hardy!"No sailboat made can outrun a storm. Lower the sails and anchor securely if practical.If not - heave to!Just a thought,,,,Stu

 

[Jesse]

Chesapeake Bay

The Chesapeake Bay has an average depth of 23 feet. In Hampton Roads, the winds generally come from the north/northwest with little or no fetch. However, lows change the direction of the wind. When the wind comes directly from the Atlantic, there is a lot of fetch and the effect is a large wave moving from deep water to shallower water (I suspect inland lakes experinece this a seiching). This closes the distance between the wave peaks at the same time increases the height of the wave. With thunderstorms, this is a temporary discomfort, so reduce sail and monitor your course changes due to leeway. Down here, the summer forecast almost always includes a 30% chance of thunderstorms. If I heeded that, I would never sail. I suggest bracing yourself, putting your crew down below (away from metal) and put on your foulies. This is where the term ARRRGGGGH originated.