through hull fittings and valves

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Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
just wondering if the apollo brand ball valves are ok for the sea cock valve....i see them in the plumbing ad's and also at the box stores....the ones in the box stores look like bronze but i am not sure if they really are ...they do have a 400 to 600 rateing ...just want a valve tyhat will keep the ocean out of my boat.......

regards

woody
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Woody: Check them out, they are probably brass and made in China.

If you are asking, you must be concerned. You need bronze and "hopefully" NOT M.I.C.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
If they're plumbing grade, they're brass, not bronze more likely than not, and going cheap on seacocks and through-hulls is a really good way to sink your boat. BTW, if your boat sinks because you used a Home Depot ball valve instead of a proper marine ball valve... your insurance is likely to be denied as you may be found NEGLIGENT and contributory to the sinking.
just wondering if the apollo brand ball valves are ok for the sea cock valve....i see them in the plumbing ad's and also at the box stores....the ones in the box stores look like bronze but i am not sure if they really are ...they do have a 400 to 600 rateing ...just want a valve tyhat will keep the ocean out of my boat.......

regards

woody
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Woody:

Check out Grainger or McMaster they both can provide you with bronze ball valves are a reasonable price (not marine grade pricing).
 

PeteK

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Nov 3, 2008
30
Clipper CM4/c Nordland, WA
Keep in mind that a ball valve is not a seacock. Many boats have been sunk because a ball valve/thru-hull combination was used instead of a proper seacock with a thru-hull.

Just a heads up.....

Pete
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Very good point... for a real eye-opening illustration of the differences, go see Maine Sail's excellent tutorial on installing seacocks and through-hulls properly. LINK

Keep in mind that a ball valve is not a seacock. Many boats have been sunk because a ball valve/thru-hull combination was used instead of a proper seacock with a thru-hull.

Just a heads up.....

Pete
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
just wondering if the apollo brand ball valves are ok for the sea cock valve....
Yes, BUT they need to be the marine UL rated 85-5-5-5 bronze versions with the yellow tag that has the UL Marine listing.

i see them in the plumbing ad's and also at the box stores....the ones in the box stores look like bronze but i am not sure if they really are ...they do have a 400 to 600 rateing ...just want a valve tyhat will keep the ocean out of my boat.......
Apollo/ Consolidated Brass (Conbraco) makes a HUGE selection of valves for all industries, and they are all excellent quality, but not all appropriate for marine use. You should not use the home center valves on your boat they do not sell bronze valves.

Groco also makes bronze marine rated ball valves and Hamilton Marine has excellent pricing. Bronze has some very wide definitions. Some "bronze" has a zinc content as high as 38-40% (read bad for seacocks). This is why what ever you buy should be Marine UL rated/listed. This will generally mean it is a low zinc composition, such as 85-5-5-5, or usually less than 5% zinc and has passed corrosion testing..

Always buy the proper valves or it may become your sacrificial zinc..

Below is a roughly one year old home center valve the PO installed when he could not get a marine rated valve when off cruising. He forgot about it and by the time I got the boat it was literally weeks away from catastrophic failure of the boat sinking type.

The ball in this valve was completely gone, as in rotted away. You could turn the handle but nothing moved inside except a chunk of rotted stem..

 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Using one of these is no different than drilling a hole in the bottom of your boat...with the exception of you not knowing when it is going happen.
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Many of us have used or are using bronze ball-valves. On all the early Hunters the thru-hulls were 1/2". No one makes a 1/2" seacock. So your choices are new gate valves or ball-valves or redrill for 3/4" thru-hulls. And Apollo does make a marine ball-valve. One major knock on the ball-valves is that they have tapered threads(NPT). But my original thru-hulls had elbows on them and the male end was tapered. So the ball-valves fit just fine. My head inlet is still that way. My engine and A/C inlet now has a 3/4" thru-hull and seacock.
 

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Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
thanks guys for the input....lots og good info in the replies here.....just one more step in the right direction .....i am in no hurry to finish my boat ...as they say haste makes waste and i only want to do some of this stuff once in a while so as to minamize or maxamize the long term effects of refitting whitch ever the case may be.....

regards

woody

now on to rebuilding the compression post and under sole support and maine bulkhead ....lots to do here
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,992
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
And, of curse, there's Marelon if you don't wanna mess around with metal...
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
thanks steve is there any good priced vendors ?
Hamilton Marine: http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/valves/2,621,1.html

The Apollo's are the ones just above the yellow handles without pictures. They have from 1/4" to 2 1/2"

The Groco's have held up just as well, if not better for me, as the Apollo valves and are considerably less money..

1/2" Apollo = $21.99
3/4" Apollo = $36.99
1" Apollo = $51.49

1/2" Groco = $14.99
3/4" Groco = $19.99
1" Groco = $32.99
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Keep in mind that a ball valve is not a seacock. Many boats have been sunk because a ball valve/thru-hull combination was used instead of a proper seacock with a thru-hull.

Just a heads up.....

Pete
What's the difference between a ball valve and a sea cock?
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Go see the link to Maine Sail's article I posted above.
Quite farmiliar, since I used that article to install my through hulls.
I bought flange adapters and bronze ball valves. Why is this not a seacock? Is it the two together make a seacock? I wouldn't say ball valves sink boats. I would say improper materials of the ball valve sunk the boat.
The article seems to suggest that ball valves are the way to go instead of flanged seacocks.
Also flanged adapters have tapered threads to match the ball valves. But a ball valve on a throughhull(which has straight threads) is a hazzard.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
A seacock has a mounting flange and has NPS threads to properly fit a through-hull. A seacock depends on sealant between the flange and the hull to create a water-tight seal.

A ball valve has NPT threads, which do not match a through-hull. Putting a ball valve on a through-hull is a bad idea, since a through-hull does not have NPT threads, but NPS threads. It depends on the tapered fit of the NPT threads to create the water-tight seal. It really should only be mounted on a flanged adapter.

Putting a ball-valve directly on a through-hull means that only a few threads are fully engaged and that the ball valve is not really properly supported by the NPS through-hull. Nor does a ball valve really seat and seal properly on a NPS through-hull.

Quite farmiliar, since I used that article to install my through hulls.
I bought flange adapters and bronze ball valves. Why is this not a seacock? Is it the two together make a seacock? I wouldn't say ball valves sink boats. I would say improper materials of the ball valve sunk the boat.
The article seems to suggest that ball valves are the way to go instead of flanged seacocks.
Also flanged adapters have tapered threads to match the ball valves. But a ball valve on a throughhull(which has straight threads) is a hazzard.
 
Dec 30, 2009
680
jeanneau 38 gin fizz sloop Summer- Keyport Yacht Club, Raritan Bay, NJ, Winter Viking Marina Verplanck, NY
If you go to compass marine projects they have some very informative articles with great pics.I personally like the idea of the groco tri-flange, with the ball valve you can remove, and change if needed......Red
 
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