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Here's what I've heard
Take one intoxicated sailor, under sail. Assume he loses control of both jib sheets and the main sheet... and that the bitter end eases out through the turning blocks and the sails are flogging in the breeze, out of control... with all three sheets to the wind.
Take one intoxicated sailor, under sail. Assume he loses control of both jib sheets and the main sheet... and that the bitter end eases out through the turning blocks and the sails are flogging in the breeze, out of control... with all three sheets to the wind.
sailing lingo
I'm a historian and I've done a little research in this area. Its amazing how many nautical phrases have found their way into common usage, with the original meaning being lost to all but the old salts. "Three sheets to the wind" means, just as Phil said, that the sailor has lost control of his vessel and is at the mercy of the wind. Here's a list of other terms in common use that have nautical roots: Batten Down the Hatches Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea Bitter End Bristol Fashion Cut and Run Flotsam and Jetsam Know the Ropes (or Learn the Ropes) Loose Cannon POSH (Port Out, Starboard Home) Sailing Under False Colors Sea Change Son of a Gun Square Meals Sun is Over the Yardarm Taken Aback Walk the Plank
I'm a historian and I've done a little research in this area. Its amazing how many nautical phrases have found their way into common usage, with the original meaning being lost to all but the old salts. "Three sheets to the wind" means, just as Phil said, that the sailor has lost control of his vessel and is at the mercy of the wind. Here's a list of other terms in common use that have nautical roots: Batten Down the Hatches Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea Bitter End Bristol Fashion Cut and Run Flotsam and Jetsam Know the Ropes (or Learn the Ropes) Loose Cannon POSH (Port Out, Starboard Home) Sailing Under False Colors Sea Change Son of a Gun Square Meals Sun is Over the Yardarm Taken Aback Walk the Plank
Another book about phrases...
...is entitled "When A Loose Cannon Flogs A Dead Horse, There's The Devil To Pay." Great little book with all sorts of nautical phrase history in it. Should be in large bookstores. Here's one of my favorites to tell my friends from the north. When they talk about the cold, I ask them if it's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey. They always reply "Yes" but when I ask them what that means they have no idea. On old gunships, they used to stack cannon balls in a pyramid shape into a box attached to the deck. The box was made of brass and called the monkey. When it got really cold, the cannon balls would expand and the brass contract causing the balls to freeze off the brass monkey. Another version of the "Three Sheets to the Wind" is that the intoxicated sailor would go to the head (always at the "head" of old tallships) and the wonderous aroma mixed with the motion of the bow through the waves would cause the sailor to immediately come to the bulwark on the bow and "heave" overboard. This position also happens to be where many ships had the forejib blocks; all the blocks required for the jibs on the bow sprit, usually three. But stories/legends are like directions; they'll all get you pretty close.
...is entitled "When A Loose Cannon Flogs A Dead Horse, There's The Devil To Pay." Great little book with all sorts of nautical phrase history in it. Should be in large bookstores. Here's one of my favorites to tell my friends from the north. When they talk about the cold, I ask them if it's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey. They always reply "Yes" but when I ask them what that means they have no idea. On old gunships, they used to stack cannon balls in a pyramid shape into a box attached to the deck. The box was made of brass and called the monkey. When it got really cold, the cannon balls would expand and the brass contract causing the balls to freeze off the brass monkey. Another version of the "Three Sheets to the Wind" is that the intoxicated sailor would go to the head (always at the "head" of old tallships) and the wonderous aroma mixed with the motion of the bow through the waves would cause the sailor to immediately come to the bulwark on the bow and "heave" overboard. This position also happens to be where many ships had the forejib blocks; all the blocks required for the jibs on the bow sprit, usually three. But stories/legends are like directions; they'll all get you pretty close.
Phils right
If anyone wants to read a great book on sealore, get Folklore and the Sea, by Horace Beck. Its one of the best reaserched books on sealore ive found. It covers areas from Shipbuilding, Weather to Pirates and Spectre Ships.
If anyone wants to read a great book on sealore, get Folklore and the Sea, by Horace Beck. Its one of the best reaserched books on sealore ive found. It covers areas from Shipbuilding, Weather to Pirates and Spectre Ships.
Okay Phil, because you asked
I'll explain this as delicately as I can. The old sailors, after being at sea for weeks or months, would get very lonely. When they got into port they would find a, um, friend, and take her back to the ship. But sometimes it got crowded on the ship, what with so many sailors having so many friends over, that they had to, um, entertain on the deck, between the guns. Well, accidents happen, and a person who had the misfortune of being conceived in this fashion would be, of course, a "Son of a Gun." And now you know the rest of the story.
I'll explain this as delicately as I can. The old sailors, after being at sea for weeks or months, would get very lonely. When they got into port they would find a, um, friend, and take her back to the ship. But sometimes it got crowded on the ship, what with so many sailors having so many friends over, that they had to, um, entertain on the deck, between the guns. Well, accidents happen, and a person who had the misfortune of being conceived in this fashion would be, of course, a "Son of a Gun." And now you know the rest of the story.
The "real" origin of the saying... I think!
I believe the meaning of the word "sheet" in this saying refers not to the sail on a boat but to a blade on a windmill. Windmills functioned normally with 4 "sheets" and were properly balanced. With only 3 sheets to the wind the windmill rotated erratically and resembled a sailor with too much grog in 'im - hence the saying!!??
I believe the meaning of the word "sheet" in this saying refers not to the sail on a boat but to a blade on a windmill. Windmills functioned normally with 4 "sheets" and were properly balanced. With only 3 sheets to the wind the windmill rotated erratically and resembled a sailor with too much grog in 'im - hence the saying!!??
Ask Cap'n Ron
For the answer to this and the origin of several other nautical sayings see the following link -- http://members.aol.com/gunnyrdj/tres.html
For the answer to this and the origin of several other nautical sayings see the following link -- http://members.aol.com/gunnyrdj/tres.html
Son of a Gun
I believe Stephen Ostrander is half right. On British men of war, female companions and "wives" were allowed at various times for the lower classes. If a woman was having dificulty in labor, often a cannon was fired to startle her to introduce muscular contractions in the birthing process. A child born aboard ship whose mother was aided by the firing of a cannon was thus a "son of a gun" I went to college with a Steve Ostrander. Did you go to Harpur in the early 60's Steve?
I believe Stephen Ostrander is half right. On British men of war, female companions and "wives" were allowed at various times for the lower classes. If a woman was having dificulty in labor, often a cannon was fired to startle her to introduce muscular contractions in the birthing process. A child born aboard ship whose mother was aided by the firing of a cannon was thus a "son of a gun" I went to college with a Steve Ostrander. Did you go to Harpur in the early 60's Steve?
Forum archival quality...
Talk about filling the archives with a lot of malarky.. It has though been fun to see all of the comments.
Talk about filling the archives with a lot of malarky.. It has though been fun to see all of the comments.
Brass Monkey?
I've heard the "Brass Monkey" explanation many times... and each time I have to ask, WHAT metal expands in the cold?!?! I can think of nothing - organic or inorganic - that doesn't shrink in cold. There must be a better explanation..... Michael O'
I've heard the "Brass Monkey" explanation many times... and each time I have to ask, WHAT metal expands in the cold?!?! I can think of nothing - organic or inorganic - that doesn't shrink in cold. There must be a better explanation..... Michael O'
Lead shrinks in cold, BUT ..
Lead, like other metals, shrinks when it cools. Molds for cast lead keels are often made a little oversize to compensate for this. There ARE substances that expand when they freeze, due to their crystalline structure. (Hint: icecubes float.) It might be that brass shrinks faster than lead as temperature drops, and that would explain the phenomenon. Or maybe the story is bogus. Beats me. Someone call Cecil.
Lead, like other metals, shrinks when it cools. Molds for cast lead keels are often made a little oversize to compensate for this. There ARE substances that expand when they freeze, due to their crystalline structure. (Hint: icecubes float.) It might be that brass shrinks faster than lead as temperature drops, and that would explain the phenomenon. Or maybe the story is bogus. Beats me. Someone call Cecil.
Didn't mean to mislead...
...pardon the pun. Brass shrinks MORE than lead? OR A thin brass plate standing vertically shrinks faster/more than large round lead/steel/iron/junk alloy balls? OR You're right, maybe the whole thing's bogus.
...pardon the pun. Brass shrinks MORE than lead? OR A thin brass plate standing vertically shrinks faster/more than large round lead/steel/iron/junk alloy balls? OR You're right, maybe the whole thing's bogus.
What does this make GWB?
Stephen, Bob, Phil, etal: Does your line of reasoning hold when considering the probable Republican Presidential candidate? Is Dubya a "Son of a Bush" or just a "Shrub?"
Stephen, Bob, Phil, etal: Does your line of reasoning hold when considering the probable Republican Presidential candidate? Is Dubya a "Son of a Bush" or just a "Shrub?"
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