I know that a number of us participate in e-mail lists related to our boats - in particular I pay attention to the C350 owners list on SailJazz - and before that, on Sailnet. Reality is setting in and SailJazz has announced that they are going to begin charging for their service - via a subscription ($36 a year - which they point out is only 10cents a day - sounds like feeding kids in Africa....). Subscriptions will be required effective 12am Monday October 31st. What do you think of that? Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Thoughts on Sailjazz email list Subscription
- Thread starter Tim C350 April IV
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By, By SAILjazz. Thanks to Phil at SailboatOwners.com, and to Gisle at CruisersForum.com for providing their FREE sites. Support those that support you - SailboatOwners.com.
By, By SAILjazz. Thanks to Phil at SailboatOwners.com, and to Gisle at CruisersForum.com for providing their FREE sites. Support those that support you - SailboatOwners.com.
You're right Gord
36 bucks for what? No content, no traffic ... let's see how long they last. Went to the sight a couple of time to check it out but no way would I support it after the experience in Charleston with the old site.
36 bucks for what? No content, no traffic ... let's see how long they last. Went to the sight a couple of time to check it out but no way would I support it after the experience in Charleston with the old site.
Poor decision.....
nothing personal....I wish them the best, but why pay for something which so many are providing for free? I use the forums which are likely to get the most readers/responses, and the pay ones will never compete with the free ones. Maybe I'm a cheapskate, but that's my take.
nothing personal....I wish them the best, but why pay for something which so many are providing for free? I use the forums which are likely to get the most readers/responses, and the pay ones will never compete with the free ones. Maybe I'm a cheapskate, but that's my take.
I don't know WHAT the Boyles were thinking
No WAY are those email lists going to survive. Why pay $36.50 when you can get the same or better content elsewhere (like here
No WAY are those email lists going to survive. Why pay $36.50 when you can get the same or better content elsewhere (like here
Which should remind all of us...
to be glad that Phil and Bly ~must~ be making a success of these sites. Congrats and many thanks. The cold winter is coming and what would we do without our chat?
to be glad that Phil and Bly ~must~ be making a success of these sites. Congrats and many thanks. The cold winter is coming and what would we do without our chat?
Hm hm
Hmhm, I guess my feelings are a bit ambivalent... on one hand I appreciate the fact that hosting a website is time consuming; however in the case of Sailjazz I found the product not very user-friendly (perhaps I am just too dumb...), I still do not know how to log in. I agree that the website will likely go down... and that's always a sad affair... Peter / Nepomuk www.croatiaunplugged.com
Hmhm, I guess my feelings are a bit ambivalent... on one hand I appreciate the fact that hosting a website is time consuming; however in the case of Sailjazz I found the product not very user-friendly (perhaps I am just too dumb...
), I still do not know how to log in. I agree that the website will likely go down... and that's always a sad affair... Peter / Nepomuk www.croatiaunplugged.comMissing posts
Just tried to exchange a message with another listee on Sailjazz, agreeing with the general displeasure in modest terms, and my post never appeared. Apparently posts to fellow sailors are being screened and discussions censored without waiting until Monday.
Just tried to exchange a message with another listee on Sailjazz, agreeing with the general displeasure in modest terms, and my post never appeared. Apparently posts to fellow sailors are being screened and discussions censored without waiting until Monday.
Very Lively Discussion Ongoing
I haven't seen any evidence of messages missing or being deleted - I've been watching a very lively - and somewhat heated - discussion on sailjazz and it's obvious that no one is censoring anything on that list. There was also a Q&A note from the folks that run Sailjazz that said that they weren't doing any censoring - contrary to rumors to the contrary. Actually a very interesting dymanic underway - watching how people react to the proposal to pay for something that has been free up to now. My opinion, it's not going to work out, not enough (critical mass?) folks will opt in for $36 a year and those that do won't think it is worthwhile because of the lack of all those that don't. Tim "holding onto my bucks" Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
I haven't seen any evidence of messages missing or being deleted - I've been watching a very lively - and somewhat heated - discussion on sailjazz and it's obvious that no one is censoring anything on that list. There was also a Q&A note from the folks that run Sailjazz that said that they weren't doing any censoring - contrary to rumors to the contrary. Actually a very interesting dymanic underway - watching how people react to the proposal to pay for something that has been free up to now. My opinion, it's not going to work out, not enough (critical mass?) folks will opt in for $36 a year and those that do won't think it is worthwhile because of the lack of all those that don't. Tim "holding onto my bucks" Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Obviously...
you will not see a post that was censored, nor will you see anything in a different forum from yours, so why you say its 'obvious' or quote the Boyles that it isn't so is pretty strange, unless of course you are not really you? Its in my 'sent items' but nowhere else, not even in the Bermuda Triangle.
you will not see a post that was censored, nor will you see anything in a different forum from yours, so why you say its 'obvious' or quote the Boyles that it isn't so is pretty strange, unless of course you are not really you? Its in my 'sent items' but nowhere else, not even in the Bermuda Triangle.
I can guarantee they are blocking email address's
They've already started blocking my freinds and mine !
They've already started blocking my freinds and mine !
I hope Phil is reading these posts
It is too bad that SailJazz took such an extreme move without any apparent regard to how the users would react. I remember in the old Sailnet days when they offered a burgee to help pay expenses, as well as a special membership discount on the retail end of the business. I bought my burgee to help them keep things going. The current $35 annual rate however seems to be on the high side. That is about the cost of a year of Good Old Boat magazine. They might not have a forum on-line, but they do have a web site and a periodic newsletter. I feel that is worth the money, so I support it. Reading e-mails from the other Hunter owners on SailJazz is redundant to what is posted here on HOW. The folks that take the time to write the posts are like a small group of sailors chatting back and forth, with little content to the subject of the original post. I personally can do without it. The new website at SailJazz however is a well done site, easy to navigate and snappy to view. The stories submitted by the readers are fun to read, just like the old Sailnet days. The bottom line is how much does all of this content cost? Having professionals on staff might be expensive as the Boyles have written, but how often are they needed and how many do you need? $35 a year times X number of subscribers could be quite a bit of money. My dad always told me that "Nothing is free". I hope SailJazz reconsiders the rate they are asking, or scale down on some of their expenses to reduce the fee. I also hope that sailboatowners.com never falls into the same trap that SailJazz as found itself doing.
It is too bad that SailJazz took such an extreme move without any apparent regard to how the users would react. I remember in the old Sailnet days when they offered a burgee to help pay expenses, as well as a special membership discount on the retail end of the business. I bought my burgee to help them keep things going. The current $35 annual rate however seems to be on the high side. That is about the cost of a year of Good Old Boat magazine. They might not have a forum on-line, but they do have a web site and a periodic newsletter. I feel that is worth the money, so I support it. Reading e-mails from the other Hunter owners on SailJazz is redundant to what is posted here on HOW. The folks that take the time to write the posts are like a small group of sailors chatting back and forth, with little content to the subject of the original post. I personally can do without it. The new website at SailJazz however is a well done site, easy to navigate and snappy to view. The stories submitted by the readers are fun to read, just like the old Sailnet days. The bottom line is how much does all of this content cost? Having professionals on staff might be expensive as the Boyles have written, but how often are they needed and how many do you need? $35 a year times X number of subscribers could be quite a bit of money. My dad always told me that "Nothing is free". I hope SailJazz reconsiders the rate they are asking, or scale down on some of their expenses to reduce the fee. I also hope that sailboatowners.com never falls into the same trap that SailJazz as found itself doing.
Sites will remain free
Hi Ken, We just made a public commitment not to do the same. This is the text of an email we sent to some of our lists Friday night: We heard today that a well-known sailing web site announced a subscription plan that will require you to pay a fee to use their site. We want to make sure there's no confusion about what we're doing at SailboatOwners.com: all the information on our web sites will remain absolutely free. The 1,000,000 forum posts, 3,500 boat reviews, 43,000 photos, boat value blue book, plus wisdom from The Head Mistress, Don Guillette, Doyle Sailmakers, Lewmar, Brion Toss, Fortress, Raymarine, PYI, Edson, and all the other content on our server... will remain free. Without banner ads in the forums or annoying pop-ups. Like the pioneers of the internet insisted, information wants to be free. And that's how it will be at SailboatOwners.com. It won't cost you a dime. Also, in case you haven't heard, we recently added more than 100 new forums for a wide variety of sailboats, from Alberg to Yankee. All have easy photo uploads, pdf resource storage, newsfeed service, and email notification of new topics or replies to your post. Stop by at: http://www.sailboatowners.com/newforums/ If you'd like a free forum for your association or boat model just let us know. We'll set it up the same day and handle all the maintenance for you. Have a great weekend, and if you have any questions simply reply to this email. Phil Herring & Bly Berken SailboatOwners.com
Hi Ken, We just made a public commitment not to do the same. This is the text of an email we sent to some of our lists Friday night: We heard today that a well-known sailing web site announced a subscription plan that will require you to pay a fee to use their site. We want to make sure there's no confusion about what we're doing at SailboatOwners.com: all the information on our web sites will remain absolutely free. The 1,000,000 forum posts, 3,500 boat reviews, 43,000 photos, boat value blue book, plus wisdom from The Head Mistress, Don Guillette, Doyle Sailmakers, Lewmar, Brion Toss, Fortress, Raymarine, PYI, Edson, and all the other content on our server... will remain free. Without banner ads in the forums or annoying pop-ups. Like the pioneers of the internet insisted, information wants to be free. And that's how it will be at SailboatOwners.com. It won't cost you a dime. Also, in case you haven't heard, we recently added more than 100 new forums for a wide variety of sailboats, from Alberg to Yankee. All have easy photo uploads, pdf resource storage, newsfeed service, and email notification of new topics or replies to your post. Stop by at: http://www.sailboatowners.com/newforums/ If you'd like a free forum for your association or boat model just let us know. We'll set it up the same day and handle all the maintenance for you. Have a great weekend, and if you have any questions simply reply to this email. Phil Herring & Bly Berken SailboatOwners.com
That Other Site
As the author of many of recent Forum Discussion and associated "Quick Quiz" items on Sailboatowners.com, I was disappointed to see that that "other site" seems to be poaching material posted here and posting it on their site. In this case, imitation is not the sincerest form of flattery....
As the author of many of recent Forum Discussion and associated "Quick Quiz" items on Sailboatowners.com, I was disappointed to see that that "other site" seems to be poaching material posted here and posting it on their site. In this case, imitation is not the sincerest form of flattery....
Phil, It is nice to know that your word is good.
In these times for someone to make a public statement would mean they are ready to change their minds and do exactly opposite of their statement. It is nice to know that your history with us is that you don't make statements lightly, and what you say you stand behind. Best wishes to you and Bly, r.w.landau
In these times for someone to make a public statement would mean they are ready to change their minds and do exactly opposite of their statement. It is nice to know that your history with us is that you don't make statements lightly, and what you say you stand behind. Best wishes to you and Bly, r.w.landau
Yea Phil *5
I know how hard it is to keep a site current and continue to enhance. My Hat and receding hair line salutes You and everyone that works hard for Sailboaters.com Jim S/V Java
I know how hard it is to keep a site current and continue to enhance. My Hat and receding hair line salutes You and everyone that works hard for Sailboaters.com Jim S/V Java
Boat value blue book?
Phil mentions the free blue book on this site. Any idea where it is? I've never come across it. Also: echoing several others - this is a truly great site. I find something to enjoy or learn every time I visit it. Dick
Phil mentions the free blue book on this site. Any idea where it is? I've never come across it. Also: echoing several others - this is a truly great site. I find something to enjoy or learn every time I visit it. Dick
The blue book referred to on this site is
under the "resources" tab on the home page (catalinaowners.com) it will list recent sales of the model you search. NADA is a "basis" for a "market" price but most surveyors usually try to find "comps" or comparable sales made recently in your area. Like most real property however a boats' real value is "what a reasonable buyer would pay". The market is regional, some boats command a premium due to demand and limited availablity. Condition of the vessel greatly affects the value.
under the "resources" tab on the home page (catalinaowners.com) it will list recent sales of the model you search. NADA is a "basis" for a "market" price but most surveyors usually try to find "comps" or comparable sales made recently in your area. Like most real property however a boats' real value is "what a reasonable buyer would pay". The market is regional, some boats command a premium due to demand and limited availablity. Condition of the vessel greatly affects the value.
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