Within reason, size means alot more when getting it in and out of a slip by yourself than actual sailing by yourself I recommend smaller to allow more solo sailing which will build experience faster.
Thought on Hunter 45 for newbie.
- Thread starter BKWard
- Start date
aeolus does not have a rub rail. we tie next to docks not to them. what's this hitting docks Will? or other boats? that's not allowed. ever. 10', 20', 30', 42', 54', 75', 580', 630', 730', 1000' ... hitting docks or other vessels is not allowed! period! no excuses! ever! it is not done! it's simple, never position the vessel to allow that to happen. drive the vessel up next to the dock, stop it, place your lines on the dock, secure your lines. i have never had a car accident either.
well, there's the time i took 60' off the old wooden road bridge in detroit back in 79'. took em 9 months to fix it. should of seen the bridge tenders eyes before coming out of the shack and running for the shore. but i swear, it was not my fault. it's a great story, maybe another time. hey, no one died
well, there's the time i took 60' off the old wooden road bridge in detroit back in 79'. took em 9 months to fix it. should of seen the bridge tenders eyes before coming out of the shack and running for the shore. but i swear, it was not my fault. it's a great story, maybe another time. hey, no one died
Well.....thanks to you guys who did not assume I’m a dumb ass because I’m new to sailing. One of the boats I spent a week on was 47 ft. And we spent hours in the marina doing things like reverse figure 8’s and all manner of docking maneuvers. I still need much more experience but I’m not scared of moving around in marina. i’ve seen many docking fail videos and all I can say is I DON‘T WANT TO BE THAT GUY.
Regardless, the replies were In the main what I expected. I know I need to go out with experienced instructor at least a half dozen or so times (if I feel I need more after that I’ll do it) and have already made those arrangements and have a good relationship with ASA Instructor.
My father was in the Coast Guard for 26 years, always lived around water but he was into fishing and power boating and if power boating was the only choice I’d never go on the water...I have zero interest in power boating.
Anyway....I’ll stop being so defensive. Thanks for the good advice and thoughts on the boat.
Regardless, the replies were In the main what I expected. I know I need to go out with experienced instructor at least a half dozen or so times (if I feel I need more after that I’ll do it) and have already made those arrangements and have a good relationship with ASA Instructor.
My father was in the Coast Guard for 26 years, always lived around water but he was into fishing and power boating and if power boating was the only choice I’d never go on the water...I have zero interest in power boating.
Anyway....I’ll stop being so defensive. Thanks for the good advice and thoughts on the boat.
If only it were simple. And, "it is not done!" - is simply a wrong statement. If only it were a correct statement!
The reality is s$$t happens. Docks, boats, sandbars, etc. all do get hit/ stuck on. All of those things are dramatically more impactful as boat size goes up. Recall, true boat size, as it impacts handling etc., is not a linear function with length. It is essentially a cubic function. As you add length, you also add width and depth. It is a volume function, not a simple linear function as one may think looking at boat lengths.
dj
they do not teach pilots that's it's ok to crash/it's going to happen. they teach to not crash no matter what.
well i'm the same about water vessels. i teach to not crash no matter what. i do not allow the mind set that crashing is part of the game. BAD KARMA
oh i see you 'crash allots' out there. quit it, it's bad form, take a little pride in your actions, please.
having a reputation for being safe makes getting crew easier.
well i'm the same about water vessels. i teach to not crash no matter what. i do not allow the mind set that crashing is part of the game. BAD KARMA
oh i see you 'crash allots' out there. quit it, it's bad form, take a little pride in your actions, please.
having a reputation for being safe makes getting crew easier.
I completely agree with all the above. However, pilots are given simulation training, especially when moved up to larger planes or move into new designs (notable exception in the current Boeing 737 Max fiasco). Where do you do that for sailboats? I want to sign up.
It's not about crashing; it's about avoiding crashing. It's also about running aground, setting tackle, sail handling; the physical aspects of handling larger boats gets harder to do as boat size increases.
dj
It seems you have missed one of the advantages, Jon, those looks of envy as you pass them by.
A bow thruster makes getting in and out of a slip by yourself easy as you can keep the boat centered while doing this. If the Hunter 45 has one like my Hunter 46 you will like this feature.
For starters, I really admire 40+ foot Hunters as coastal cruisers, and many of them are proven blue water cruisers with appropriate easy modifications.
Jon Hansen, I understand you like your boat. But, length is not the whole story. Most of the advantages you ascribe to length relate to comfort. Ted Brewer defined “comfort” as the ability of a sailboat to avoid unexpected, jerky, or extreme motions in a seaway. As a boat designer, he developed a comfort index to describe how length, overhangs, beam, and displacement affect comfort.
According to Brewer’s comfort index, a Hunter 30 74-83 has a slightly higher comfort index (25.3) than the newer Hunter 44 (25.1). Our Hunter 27 75-84 is close to both at 24.4. My experience chartering boats from 30 to 45 feet over 25 years bears out this conclusion. so your first 17 or so advantages for length through comfort or quiet ride simply don’t apply! In fact, some are more related to other design features than comfort. For instance, wide decks and appropriate hand holds make it easy for even inexperienced sailors to enjoy all the deck space on our h-27.
Some of your other advantages also fail simple experience:
- bigger ground tackle is harder to handle. And the electric winch adds to complexity and maintenance cost.
- the lighter and shorter whisker/spinnaker poles of a 30 footer are much easier to handle than those on a 45 footer.
- the head on our 27 footer is as comfortable as any I’ve used on a 40+ foot boat. In fact, most boats of all lengths use the same marine toilets. So comfort in the head is more about the head layout design.
I could go on... But what I’m trying to say is that design is key, and a 30 footer may meet all one’s needs and desires as well as a 45 footer Depending on design.
Jon Hansen, I understand you like your boat. But, length is not the whole story. Most of the advantages you ascribe to length relate to comfort. Ted Brewer defined “comfort” as the ability of a sailboat to avoid unexpected, jerky, or extreme motions in a seaway. As a boat designer, he developed a comfort index to describe how length, overhangs, beam, and displacement affect comfort.
According to Brewer’s comfort index, a Hunter 30 74-83 has a slightly higher comfort index (25.3) than the newer Hunter 44 (25.1). Our Hunter 27 75-84 is close to both at 24.4. My experience chartering boats from 30 to 45 feet over 25 years bears out this conclusion. so your first 17 or so advantages for length through comfort or quiet ride simply don’t apply! In fact, some are more related to other design features than comfort. For instance, wide decks and appropriate hand holds make it easy for even inexperienced sailors to enjoy all the deck space on our h-27.
Some of your other advantages also fail simple experience:
- bigger ground tackle is harder to handle. And the electric winch adds to complexity and maintenance cost.
- the lighter and shorter whisker/spinnaker poles of a 30 footer are much easier to handle than those on a 45 footer.
- the head on our 27 footer is as comfortable as any I’ve used on a 40+ foot boat. In fact, most boats of all lengths use the same marine toilets. So comfort in the head is more about the head layout design.
I could go on... But what I’m trying to say is that design is key, and a 30 footer may meet all one’s needs and desires as well as a 45 footer Depending on design.
BKWard, here are some thoughts for your decision.
A 45 footer will have lots of subsystems leading to complexity, higher failure rates, and higher maintenance costs. Most studies show that maintenance cost goes up with the square of the length. So a 45 footer will have more than twice the maintenance cost and failure rate of a 30 footer.
l can often manhandle the rigging of our 27 footer. On a 45 footer, all rigging adjustments must be handled through a winch. Forces on sheets, halyards, etc., go up with the cube of length.
The complexity of systems means longer checklists when preparing to get under way, return to the dock, anchor, leave the anchor, etc. That means recovering from an oversight more often.
With over twice the momentum and 3 times the force on rigging, the costs and dangers of a mistake are much higher on a 45 footer. And all of us with time on boats will confess the mistakes are one of our important teachers.
On the other hand, I agree that it’s not basically harder to learn how to cruise on a 45 versus a 30 footer. I suggest that you charter a 45 footer in the British Virgin Islands. Engage a Captain from the charter company to sail with you until you both agree you can go it alone. After a week there with one or more crew, you will know if a 45 footer is the right choice for you. And you will have had a great week in one of the finest cruising grounds in the world! (Just read your reply above. Chartering in the Chesapeake would serve the same purpose.)
Fair winds and following seas!
A 45 footer will have lots of subsystems leading to complexity, higher failure rates, and higher maintenance costs. Most studies show that maintenance cost goes up with the square of the length. So a 45 footer will have more than twice the maintenance cost and failure rate of a 30 footer.
l can often manhandle the rigging of our 27 footer. On a 45 footer, all rigging adjustments must be handled through a winch. Forces on sheets, halyards, etc., go up with the cube of length.
The complexity of systems means longer checklists when preparing to get under way, return to the dock, anchor, leave the anchor, etc. That means recovering from an oversight more often.
With over twice the momentum and 3 times the force on rigging, the costs and dangers of a mistake are much higher on a 45 footer. And all of us with time on boats will confess the mistakes are one of our important teachers.
On the other hand, I agree that it’s not basically harder to learn how to cruise on a 45 versus a 30 footer. I suggest that you charter a 45 footer in the British Virgin Islands. Engage a Captain from the charter company to sail with you until you both agree you can go it alone. After a week there with one or more crew, you will know if a 45 footer is the right choice for you. And you will have had a great week in one of the finest cruising grounds in the world! (Just read your reply above. Chartering in the Chesapeake would serve the same purpose.)
Fair winds and following seas!
Last edited:
I can’t resist. Of course, no one wants to hit a dock or another boat. But when I was on a sub tender in Key West, we would go up high on the rail to watch subs come into the harbor around us from week long training cruises. Usually, a junior officer would be conning the sub to learn how to maneuver and dock in tight quarters. That’s serious business, especially for the junior officer directly involved! But we called these weekly training sessions “bumper cars” for a good reason!
And those junior officers had to take some ribbing at happy hour Friday evening at the Officers’ Club.
And those junior officers had to take some ribbing at happy hour Friday evening at the Officers’ Club.
What's the mast height? If more than 64 ft you will not be able to cruise on the ICW where bridges are designed at 65'.
I have owned a 28-footer and my current 32-footer. I have a buddy at the marina with a 40-footer.
i keep talking about the next size up for me (37-40 feet). My buddy with the Hunter 40 says he cannot take his boat out by himself. He is in good physical shape...it has to do with docking.
I can take my 32 footer out by myself (I single hand a lot). But i am questioning my upgrade to a 40 footer.
If I am solo most of the time, what do I need a bigger boat for?
Maybe if I was living on board...but I am not.
Greg
i keep talking about the next size up for me (37-40 feet). My buddy with the Hunter 40 says he cannot take his boat out by himself. He is in good physical shape...it has to do with docking.
I can take my 32 footer out by myself (I single hand a lot). But i am questioning my upgrade to a 40 footer.
If I am solo most of the time, what do I need a bigger boat for?
Maybe if I was living on board...but I am not.
Greg
In all the years of cruising, docking, etc., no need for, nor want of a bow thruster. Much prefer using maneuvering techniques that I've learned over the years. Much more effective and one less system to deal with.
Soon a short story about what happened last week when we were required to move our boat from our old B dock to the new temporary A dock while the marina staff replaces the old. Southerly wind was blowing pretty good and our boat has a large freeboard. Needless to say the A dock staff on hand to help were frantic running around while this skipper remained calm and prepared for the maneuver required to make the move. No boats were hit, no damaged egos, no injuries, so all ended well.
Soon a short story about what happened last week when we were required to move our boat from our old B dock to the new temporary A dock while the marina staff replaces the old. Southerly wind was blowing pretty good and our boat has a large freeboard. Needless to say the A dock staff on hand to help were frantic running around while this skipper remained calm and prepared for the maneuver required to make the move. No boats were hit, no damaged egos, no injuries, so all ended well.
Solo most of the time here, too, but a larger boat makes for more room when guests come aboard. One of my cruising buddies lives aboard his Dana 24 and is perfectly happy. When we decided to get a larger boat, the admiral says this is the boat she wanted, so no reason to argue with her. All in the eye of the beholder, eh?
Just got back from a solo sail on my 40 foot boat. It is set up for solo sailing and I enjoy dong solo sailing (for short day sails) as much as I do with a group of people. I don't have to worry about telling someone what to do or making sure everyone is comfortable and safe. I so wear a life vest when I solo sail but with 54 degree water temp I do't know if I'd last long enough to get to shore, assuming I could paddle fast enough to do so.
That being said, my San Juan 21 was a lot easier to sail. If I didn't have the electric haylard winch it woudl be a real chore to get the large roach main up on my current boat. It was the second best addition my 40 footer (right after the electric flush fresh water head!) that makes the Admiral happy. Happy wife, happy life.
That being said, my San Juan 21 was a lot easier to sail. If I didn't have the electric haylard winch it woudl be a real chore to get the large roach main up on my current boat. It was the second best addition my 40 footer (right after the electric flush fresh water head!) that makes the Admiral happy. Happy wife, happy life.
Naval Academy 44
The latest addition to the fleet combines proven principles with contemporary practicesSpend any time at sea and you quickly learn that conditions can change rapidly out there, and not always in predictable ways. That truth has always played a key role in educating the midshipmen at the U.S...
www.sailmagazine.com
the navy thinks it's a great size for a starter to train sailors
Yes Jon. But it’s educational experience is a crew of 6. Solo sailing in emergencies is not a part of the curriculum on the 44ft boat.
The ability to manage the boat in the worst conditions is paramount. Having the time to learn those skills feels like an important part of small boat management.
But some folk dive into the deep end of the pool unable to swim. Then fate determines the outcome.