Hi Everyone, I'm currently thinking of buying a 1977 Catalina 30. The boat in question has 2 problems that I would like some feedback on before I get it surveyed. The first is that the hull is blistered and has 4 or 5 blisters that are 2 inches across. The second is that 2 or the steel keel bolts have corroded to where there is not much material left on the nut or thread but stainless steel lag bolts have been inserted. I was hoping that everyone could give me some feedback on models around this year and tell me if its likely that the hull will need a full peel job for the blisters instead of localized repair and barrier coat treatment and if the lag bolt repair is permanent or if I will be facing some other type of repair for the keel bolts later. Thanks in advance, James
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A
Allen
I've Got a 1977
James, I've got a 1977 and I love it because it needed a lot of work & I was able to get it relatively cheap & do most of the work myself. However, the things my boat needed were easy to spec out before purchasing. It needed a new motor, new genoa, new rudder, chainplate upgrades and spreader upgrades (to name a few!). The point is that all of these things lent themselves to easily budgeting exactly how much time & money would be needed to fix her up & do it right. I was pretty confident that there would be no "mid-project surprises" if you know what I mean, and I was right. In your case, there are at least two unknowns - the blisters & the keel. Hull blisters (and keel work) can look like an isolated thing and then turn into something a lot bigger once you get in there & start looking around. With the limited information I have, the hull and the keel concern me. You say only 2 bolts were replaced. What about the others? It would seem that all of the bolts are the same age...you have to assume that they are ALL going to need to be replaced with lagged stainless bolts soon & that is a big job. Grinding out hull blisters isn't a small job, either. You should get a lot of $$ off of the purchase price for these 2 items. In addition, you should keep in mind that there are other unexpected surprises that are inevitably going to pop up on any boat of this vintage. You should ask yourself how the "big ticket" items look. We already know about the hull, but what about the rudder (cost me about $1k)? What about the engine (diesel replacement about $8k)? How's the electrical system in the boat? Sail inventory? Electronics? Canvas & upholstery? All of these things will add up real quick and, without a solid plan, it's easy to dump $40k (including purchase price) into a boat that will never be worth more than $25k. Heck, for $40k you could probably find a 38 footer in decent shape. I guess what I'm saying is that when you get a boat of this vintage you're taking on some risks. Make sure that the price you pay more than offsets the risks you've identified, because there may be more further ones down the road. Before I bought my boat I priced out what a perfect 1977 would cost. In my area a 1977 C-30 in *pristine* (like new) condition would run about $23k to $25k. I made sure that it wouldn't cost me more that that to get mine in perfect condition, otherwise I'd be better off buying a boat that was already restored. Not just in terms of $$, but also in terms of time spent sailing & not working. Overall I am extremely pleased with my boat, but I think that's because I knew exactly what I was getting in to and I had exact money and time budgeted to turn her into the boat I wanted. If you can do this for your boat then you should be ok. If not, then there are a LOT of C-30's out there. Be patient and you'll find the one that's right for you. My email address is allens@mathworks.com Email me if you want to ask specific questions. I hope this helped. Good luck with your search!! Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 hull #632
James, I've got a 1977 and I love it because it needed a lot of work & I was able to get it relatively cheap & do most of the work myself. However, the things my boat needed were easy to spec out before purchasing. It needed a new motor, new genoa, new rudder, chainplate upgrades and spreader upgrades (to name a few!). The point is that all of these things lent themselves to easily budgeting exactly how much time & money would be needed to fix her up & do it right. I was pretty confident that there would be no "mid-project surprises" if you know what I mean, and I was right. In your case, there are at least two unknowns - the blisters & the keel. Hull blisters (and keel work) can look like an isolated thing and then turn into something a lot bigger once you get in there & start looking around. With the limited information I have, the hull and the keel concern me. You say only 2 bolts were replaced. What about the others? It would seem that all of the bolts are the same age...you have to assume that they are ALL going to need to be replaced with lagged stainless bolts soon & that is a big job. Grinding out hull blisters isn't a small job, either. You should get a lot of $$ off of the purchase price for these 2 items. In addition, you should keep in mind that there are other unexpected surprises that are inevitably going to pop up on any boat of this vintage. You should ask yourself how the "big ticket" items look. We already know about the hull, but what about the rudder (cost me about $1k)? What about the engine (diesel replacement about $8k)? How's the electrical system in the boat? Sail inventory? Electronics? Canvas & upholstery? All of these things will add up real quick and, without a solid plan, it's easy to dump $40k (including purchase price) into a boat that will never be worth more than $25k. Heck, for $40k you could probably find a 38 footer in decent shape. I guess what I'm saying is that when you get a boat of this vintage you're taking on some risks. Make sure that the price you pay more than offsets the risks you've identified, because there may be more further ones down the road. Before I bought my boat I priced out what a perfect 1977 would cost. In my area a 1977 C-30 in *pristine* (like new) condition would run about $23k to $25k. I made sure that it wouldn't cost me more that that to get mine in perfect condition, otherwise I'd be better off buying a boat that was already restored. Not just in terms of $$, but also in terms of time spent sailing & not working. Overall I am extremely pleased with my boat, but I think that's because I knew exactly what I was getting in to and I had exact money and time budgeted to turn her into the boat I wanted. If you can do this for your boat then you should be ok. If not, then there are a LOT of C-30's out there. Be patient and you'll find the one that's right for you. My email address is allens@mathworks.com Email me if you want to ask specific questions. I hope this helped. Good luck with your search!! Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 hull #632
J
James
RE: I've Got a 1977
Thanks for the response Allen, I should have explained the keel bolt situation in more detail. 2 of the original steel keel bolts have corroded to the point where there is not much material left for the nut to grab on to. Apparently Catalina has suggested the addition of stainless lag bolts ( 7 I believe ) that are installed by drilling through into the keel lead and tightening. I was wondering if anyone knew if this was a permanent repair or if the you would eventually have to replace the keel bolts also. Thanks, James
Thanks for the response Allen, I should have explained the keel bolt situation in more detail. 2 of the original steel keel bolts have corroded to the point where there is not much material left for the nut to grab on to. Apparently Catalina has suggested the addition of stainless lag bolts ( 7 I believe ) that are installed by drilling through into the keel lead and tightening. I was wondering if anyone knew if this was a permanent repair or if the you would eventually have to replace the keel bolts also. Thanks, James
L
LaDonna Bubak - CatalinaOwners.com
Lag bolts
I believe that the lag bolts are a good "permanent" fix but if you're concerned, call Catalina's customer service department and confirm this. It'll set your mind at ease, at the very least. As far as the blisters are concerned, typically they're more cosmetic than anything (unless you're a racer). A good surveyor would be able to tell you if there's any delamination in those areas. They're really not *that* difficult to repair - I've repaired thousands of small ones on my boat! You'll have to grind them down to clean glass, build the area back up with new glass/epoxy, sand it down fair, paint epoxy over that & then paint the bottom. For just a few blisters, that's just a day's work. LaDonna
I believe that the lag bolts are a good "permanent" fix but if you're concerned, call Catalina's customer service department and confirm this. It'll set your mind at ease, at the very least. As far as the blisters are concerned, typically they're more cosmetic than anything (unless you're a racer). A good surveyor would be able to tell you if there's any delamination in those areas. They're really not *that* difficult to repair - I've repaired thousands of small ones on my boat! You'll have to grind them down to clean glass, build the area back up with new glass/epoxy, sand it down fair, paint epoxy over that & then paint the bottom. For just a few blisters, that's just a day's work. LaDonna
M
Mark
Good survey is worth it
I have a 77 C30TR. Check to see if there is any separation between the keel and the hull. Check the leading edge of the keel for evidence of sudden stoppage (hard grounding) impact. If you find any check the keel bolt area for warping and separation/ softness of the hull glass in the bilge. If it is soft and the keel has been wet (heavy drip of shaft log and melting ice from ice box)you may have a big problem with soundness of the hull. If this connection is sound however and not soft then possibly you only need to complete the lag bolt procedure and fix the blisters. When you hire your prepurchase surveyor, do not go for the cheap get a good one who will tell you the potential pain before you decide to bite it off.
I have a 77 C30TR. Check to see if there is any separation between the keel and the hull. Check the leading edge of the keel for evidence of sudden stoppage (hard grounding) impact. If you find any check the keel bolt area for warping and separation/ softness of the hull glass in the bilge. If it is soft and the keel has been wet (heavy drip of shaft log and melting ice from ice box)you may have a big problem with soundness of the hull. If this connection is sound however and not soft then possibly you only need to complete the lag bolt procedure and fix the blisters. When you hire your prepurchase surveyor, do not go for the cheap get a good one who will tell you the potential pain before you decide to bite it off.
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