The Italian boat Luna Rossa just eliminated BMW Oracle from the Americas Cup. It goes to show that just throwing money at the competition does not work, you have to put the time in the water and work hard. Instead of doing PR tours the skipper and crew should been doing the circuit races. It used to be that you knew when the italians were going to tack as they would all ditch their cigarettes but now they have become a powerhouse.
- Status
Oh well,,,
As a member of an Italian family, I have a bit of knowledge of the Italian sailing heritage. At least we (USA) lost to a worthy opponent. Wonder how many, if any, were Italians in that organization?
As a member of an Italian family, I have a bit of knowledge of the Italian sailing heritage. At least we (USA) lost to a worthy opponent. Wonder how many, if any, were Italians in that organization?
Larry Ellison not Thomas Lipton 
Larry Ellison and Oracle are multiple time losers in the AC. I don't hear much support for either Larry or Chris Dickson from other sailors. Another multiple loser, Thomas Lipton, was well liked and a gentleman. I doubt that history will paint a flattering picture of LE's quest for the cup. He has made too many mistakes: After failing so many times, why does the Oracle team stay with Bruce Farr as designer? Why allow one person to have so much responsibility? Dickson is CEO, Skipper, AND Helmsman? How can you spend $300 Million and get a team that has a slow boat and picks the wrong side of the course more times than not? How can you get to the semi's 1 point out of first place, then not lead around a single mark in 6 races? It would be nice to see an American team in the next AC, I just hope it's not LE and Oracle. Guess which team did not have their Country's flying or painted on the boat? Oracle got spanked, they deserved it.
Larry Ellison and Oracle are multiple time losers in the AC. I don't hear much support for either Larry or Chris Dickson from other sailors. Another multiple loser, Thomas Lipton, was well liked and a gentleman. I doubt that history will paint a flattering picture of LE's quest for the cup. He has made too many mistakes: After failing so many times, why does the Oracle team stay with Bruce Farr as designer? Why allow one person to have so much responsibility? Dickson is CEO, Skipper, AND Helmsman? How can you spend $300 Million and get a team that has a slow boat and picks the wrong side of the course more times than not? How can you get to the semi's 1 point out of first place, then not lead around a single mark in 6 races? It would be nice to see an American team in the next AC, I just hope it's not LE and Oracle. Guess which team did not have their Country's flying or painted on the boat? Oracle got spanked, they deserved it.
Too expensive
This thing has gotten to the point that it takes so much money. Someone has to be a politician, fund raiser and glad hander, and sailing ability probably doesn't enter the equation, until the wheeling and dealing is done.
This thing has gotten to the point that it takes so much money. Someone has to be a politician, fund raiser and glad hander, and sailing ability probably doesn't enter the equation, until the wheeling and dealing is done.
Survival of the fittest....
I agree pretty much with you Nice N Easy, that it's a lot like politics, where someone has to spend all his time raising money and politicking - but every team faces the same set of challenges, and BMW/Oracle came up short, once again. Moody, you ask ALL the right questions.... unfortunately BMW/Oracle were unable to answer ANY of them. I watched all but the 4th race, and to call this a spanking doesn't do justice. It was a comprehensive beating, and I guess if it shows anything, it's that 'money can't buy you love' on the AC course. I think Chris Dickson has held his last serious AC boat helm - hard to believe that anyone will want to risk hundreds of millions on him anymore, as Larry Ellison has done, what, twice now? The tactic of bringing in the best match-race skippers and tacticians seems to be paying off for the other 3 boats. James Spithill and Torben Grail are awesome in Luna Rossa. Although the Spanish boat is hanging tough - and they can REALLY celebrate lasting longer than BMW/Oracle - it sure looks like Emirates/NZ and Luna Rossa in the LV finals. Hopefully that will give us better racing than watching Larry Ellison point his laser range-finder ahead at Luna Rossa, and seeing Chris Dickson standing at the helm like a sphinx, wandering down the wrong side of the course as if he hadn't a care in the world. At least the CUP is named after America (I know, it was named after the boat, not the country), so we'll have SOME CONNECTION to the winner. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
I agree pretty much with you Nice N Easy, that it's a lot like politics, where someone has to spend all his time raising money and politicking - but every team faces the same set of challenges, and BMW/Oracle came up short, once again. Moody, you ask ALL the right questions.... unfortunately BMW/Oracle were unable to answer ANY of them. I watched all but the 4th race, and to call this a spanking doesn't do justice. It was a comprehensive beating, and I guess if it shows anything, it's that 'money can't buy you love' on the AC course.
I think Chris Dickson has held his last serious AC boat helm - hard to believe that anyone will want to risk hundreds of millions on him anymore, as Larry Ellison has done, what, twice now? The tactic of bringing in the best match-race skippers and tacticians seems to be paying off for the other 3 boats. James Spithill and Torben Grail are awesome in Luna Rossa. Although the Spanish boat is hanging tough - and they can REALLY celebrate lasting longer than BMW/Oracle - it sure looks like Emirates/NZ and Luna Rossa in the LV finals. Hopefully that will give us better racing than watching Larry Ellison point his laser range-finder ahead at Luna Rossa, and seeing Chris Dickson standing at the helm like a sphinx, wandering down the wrong side of the course as if he hadn't a care in the world. At least the CUP is named after America (I know, it was named after the boat, not the country), so we'll have SOME CONNECTION to the winner. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
who cleaned whose clock?
Let me see if I've got this straight: an "Italian" syndicate, skippered by an Australian, beat an "American" (even though the "B" in "BMW" stands for "Bavarian") syndicate skippered by a New Zealander. The America's Cup is no longer a competition between nations. It is, rather, a competition between corporations played out with hired guns. "They" did not clean "our" clock unless the people with the clock happen to own stock in Oracle and/or BMW. As a sailor, I find the fact that BMW/Oracle couldn't make it to the LV finals after having spent $270 million somewhat reassuring.
Let me see if I've got this straight: an "Italian" syndicate, skippered by an Australian, beat an "American" (even though the "B" in "BMW" stands for "Bavarian") syndicate skippered by a New Zealander. The America's Cup is no longer a competition between nations. It is, rather, a competition between corporations played out with hired guns. "They" did not clean "our" clock unless the people with the clock happen to own stock in Oracle and/or BMW. As a sailor, I find the fact that BMW/Oracle couldn't make it to the LV finals after having spent $270 million somewhat reassuring.
I may be the only one here......
..by I have lost complete interest in this race when it stopped being a race between nations. As the previous viewer pointed out...it takes alot of money to race. Captains and crew no longer belong to the nation they represent. I think the fun is over. I think that they need to change the rules so that all team members must be a citizen of the country they represent and that 50+% of the money (with a cap on spending) has to come from that country. my 2 cents. abe
..by I have lost complete interest in this race when it stopped being a race between nations. As the previous viewer pointed out...it takes alot of money to race. Captains and crew no longer belong to the nation they represent. I think the fun is over. I think that they need to change the rules so that all team members must be a citizen of the country they represent and that 50+% of the money (with a cap on spending) has to come from that country. my 2 cents. abe
We all know that once the AC...
went syndicate, it will never go back to the way it was. Sports really are no longer an individual/national effort, it is all about sponsors and big money. The last of real sports seems to be at the community level with the little leagues, but even they are going for big name local sponsorship. Buying the talents of others is the norm, not the exception. This is too bad because I used to enjoy the AC races. I still do in a way as it pits skipper against skipper, but in multi million, high tech boats. Wouldn't it be just grand to have the AC race in one of the first "class" yachts built for such? But I fear it would be too boring for the general public. On to the boats, I found it weird to see the top of the mainsail lopped off. I know it wasn't, but it still looked strange, almost like it was trying to be a gaff rigged main.
went syndicate, it will never go back to the way it was. Sports really are no longer an individual/national effort, it is all about sponsors and big money. The last of real sports seems to be at the community level with the little leagues, but even they are going for big name local sponsorship. Buying the talents of others is the norm, not the exception. This is too bad because I used to enjoy the AC races. I still do in a way as it pits skipper against skipper, but in multi million, high tech boats. Wouldn't it be just grand to have the AC race in one of the first "class" yachts built for such? But I fear it would be too boring for the general public. On to the boats, I found it weird to see the top of the mainsail lopped off. I know it wasn't, but it still looked strange, almost like it was trying to be a gaff rigged main.
Absolutely agree with you Abe...
just not evn close to the same as when teams were of their own nation. I'm sure most people of the world feel the same way. Is there not any way, via petitions and scuttlebut, etc. to try and get it back to the good ole days?
just not evn close to the same as when teams were of their own nation. I'm sure most people of the world feel the same way. Is there not any way, via petitions and scuttlebut, etc. to try and get it back to the good ole days?
Race between nations....
Was it really ever that? If I recall correctly, it has ALWAYS been the 'billionaire boy's club' race. Was Vanderbilt poor? Didn't Sir Thomas Lipton use the AC to promote his tea in America? They got rid of the J-boats because they were getting too expensive, even for these rich men, but this race will ALWAYS be a no-holds-barred contest. For the more budget-conscious, there are plenty of other racing classes, aren't there? What we're seeing is the sailing equivalent of Formula 1 racing, with a slight tilt towards individual egotism, whereas Formula 1 tends to be more corporate-orientated. Could that be because the billionaires can actually ride along (as 18th man in the orange jacket) or even pretend to contribute (like Larry Ellison with his laser range-finder) in the AC, but obviously can't even SIT in a F1 car? It's also interesting that Emirates/NZ don't seem to have one of these billionaires at their head - the syndicate chief, Grant Dalton, is a SAILOR! His resume includes no less than SEVEN round-the-world races, including winning the Whitbread and the memorable Milleneum race, skippering Club Med to a then-record 62 day circumnavigation. And even from his lofty position atop the team, able to choose whichever position he wants, he is the SEWERMAN on the boat! Also of note is that 22 of the 27 crew members on Emirates/NZ are actually from New Zealand. Now, if you still want to bash the billionaires, consider this: Usama bin Laden could have decided that the best way to damage the US was by beating us at sailing. Too bad he didn't. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
Was it really ever that? If I recall correctly, it has ALWAYS been the 'billionaire boy's club' race. Was Vanderbilt poor? Didn't Sir Thomas Lipton use the AC to promote his tea in America? They got rid of the J-boats because they were getting too expensive, even for these rich men, but this race will ALWAYS be a no-holds-barred contest. For the more budget-conscious, there are plenty of other racing classes, aren't there? What we're seeing is the sailing equivalent of Formula 1 racing, with a slight tilt towards individual egotism, whereas Formula 1 tends to be more corporate-orientated. Could that be because the billionaires can actually ride along (as 18th man in the orange jacket) or even pretend to contribute (like Larry Ellison with his laser range-finder) in the AC, but obviously can't even SIT in a F1 car? It's also interesting that Emirates/NZ don't seem to have one of these billionaires at their head - the syndicate chief, Grant Dalton, is a SAILOR! His resume includes no less than SEVEN round-the-world races, including winning the Whitbread and the memorable Milleneum race, skippering Club Med to a then-record 62 day circumnavigation. And even from his lofty position atop the team, able to choose whichever position he wants, he is the SEWERMAN on the boat! Also of note is that 22 of the 27 crew members on Emirates/NZ are actually from New Zealand. Now, if you still want to bash the billionaires, consider this: Usama bin Laden could have decided that the best way to damage the US was by beating us at sailing. Too bad he didn't. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
Mercenary sailboat racing
When one considers that the crews of these boats very likely cannot speak the native languages of the nations that they are supposed to be sailing for (or do so with a Kiwi or Ausi accent) and would be hard pressed to find them on a map of the world, I have completely lost interest in the races. The crews are mercenaries who sell out to the highest paying syndicate. These are corporate syndicates and boys with too much money playing with very expensive, single-purpose, barely seaworthy boats in what has become a rather farcical event.
When one considers that the crews of these boats very likely cannot speak the native languages of the nations that they are supposed to be sailing for (or do so with a Kiwi or Ausi accent) and would be hard pressed to find them on a map of the world, I have completely lost interest in the races. The crews are mercenaries who sell out to the highest paying syndicate. These are corporate syndicates and boys with too much money playing with very expensive, single-purpose, barely seaworthy boats in what has become a rather farcical event.
consolation
If there's any consolation, Luna Rosa had more Americans on board than BMW/Oracle, and the boat was designed by Bruce Nelson in San Diego. It may just be the most American team to root for. (Other than for corporate logos, of course.) And Spithill is absolutely amazing on the start line. Only Russel Couts could beat him at this moment, and Couts isn't racing.
If there's any consolation, Luna Rosa had more Americans on board than BMW/Oracle, and the boat was designed by Bruce Nelson in San Diego. It may just be the most American team to root for. (Other than for corporate logos, of course.) And Spithill is absolutely amazing on the start line. Only Russel Couts could beat him at this moment, and Couts isn't racing.
- Status