The real Blackwater scandal

[Banooma]

smug? I'm just being showing courtesy

I'm not sure from where Peppy's assertion of my smugness comes, but I enjoy swimming and boating in clean water. Because I'm an adult who understands the impact of my actions, I hope to leave my environment as clean as I possibly can. I didn't think the question or my answer was phrased to speak for anyone on this board, or any state government, for that matter. Dumping untreated sewage is definitely wrong, but dumping a much smaller magnitude of crap into the water doesn't make it right. I'm just speaking from my conscience, Pep. I'm thinking Peppy and Annonymouse are probably jetskiiers poaching on this board ;-)

 

[SEADANCE]

Has anyone tried the Wag Bag system?

?? someone explain for me please

 

[Ernie T.]

Much adoa about nothing

I tend to agree with "JWC". While attending Maine Maritime Academy I wrote a term paper on the question of the necessity for recreational boaters to have to use holding tanks. The amount of sewage put into the water compared to municipal systems is hardly even worth mentioning. I believe the regulations are more a way of leading the public to think they're protecting the environment. Now, this only applies to ocean systems, NOT fresh water systems such as lakes and such.Of course, the law IS the law, and I respect and obey it. I generally take mine out the required three miles and dump. When this is impractical I'll get it pumped out.

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

Every little bit . . .

As a fresh water sailer I live with an absolute prohibition on dumping blackwater overboard, and am thankful that our marina has a nice dump station for porta-potties. But a number of replies in this thread reminded me of something I read in American Heritage magazine many years ago. Appearently, when the automobile was introduced in the early 1900's, it was hailed as the answer to large cities' air pollution problems - which came from a lot of horses providing motive power on city streets and leaving their residue behind. A small quatity of pollutant, whether its horse manure, auto exhaust or human waste can be handled by natural systems without a problem. But as there get to be more of us the system's limit will be reached. My thought is to decide what type of world you want (as opposed to having no choice but to tolerate) to live in, and act accordingly. Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Persy]

Much apoo about nothing is right....

This is a social/political issue, not environmental. If the issue was really to clean up the water, cities, residences, and farms would all be required to treat all water running off their property. Since it's not politically viable to make farmers and homeowners do this, we have irrational laws that allow someone to relive themselves off the back of the boat, but not inside and pump it overboard.Fertilizer from farms and lawns washing into streams, and eventually the Gulf of Mexico, create a massive dead zone each year hundreds of miles across. No boater anywhere has ever caused anything like this, or even had a measurable effect.It may make one feel better by using a pump out station, but in reality, the pollution levels from farm & city runoff are thousands times greater than recreational boaters.An even bigger issue is the vast numbers of fish and other wildlife in these waters who are not yet properly potty trained. I understand there has been some progress here, but not nearly enough...and as someone said in an earlier message, every little bit counts....If we're talking about a very crowded freshwater harbor with hundreds of boats all dumping overboard at the same time, yes, this would be a problem. The issue of a few dozen, or hundred boaters dumping waste into a river, bay or large lake is moot. Relax....it's going to be alright

 

[John]

actions affect thinking

Of course, the pollution from major industry, the military, etc. is many times greater than that of individuals. But often, those who most belittle the importance of our own individual actions are also the ones oppose doing anything to stop the huge, major polluters also.I, personally, just wouldn't feel good about dumping my own blackwater into the bay or ocean when there is a perfectly usable pumpout station nearby. If we're dumping our sewage into the sea, then we have to justify it to ourselves. Once we do that, it sets off a whole train of thought, a whole way of thinking. Add on to that, what are we teaching out kids if we do this? After all, kids don't distinguish in that way.Like somebody else on this thread commented - would you drive down the street and dump your candy wrappers, empty cups, etc. out on the street as you go? Some people in my neighborhood do that, and it shows a real lack of concern for their neighbors and a lack of thinking about the effects of their actions and their responsibility to the community.

 

[Ross]

Water pollution is not a problem IF you don't swim

or otherwise come in contact with the water. This includes the seawater pump in the galley. IF you don't eat raw shellfish. IF the spray in your face while sailing is constantly washed off. If you clean the fish you catch and wash them with clean drinking water. IF you are immune to Hepatitis "A" "B" "C" and non A B C variants. IF you think that Cholera is just an ancient disease that doesn't exist in the waters of your boating area. IF Typhoid is just something that used to kill people. Now they call it salmonella. And last but not least if you believe that E-Coli bacteria only comes in ground meat.

 

[Dave]

Thanks Thomas

Thomas,You may have had everything you needed to confront the enemy, but you still put your life on the line so we American's can enjoy the luxury of freedom. Your service to our country is admired and appreciated, and we are thankful you are safely back home.Fair winds!Dave

 

[Ross]

I live in close proximity to an Army base. I often glimpse a bumper

sticker that reads, "if you love your freedom -thank a service man or woman." I usually see this on a vehicle that flashes past me 15-20 over the speed limit. People claim to fight for the rule of law and freedom but somehow don't apply it to their own lifestyle. I guess that I am getting cynical in my old age but I realize that most people at least make a token effort to comply with the law, only a few are scufflaws. But how many turds do you need in a punch bowl?

 

[John24107]

Speed traps

Ross, That puts in mind all the time I see our trusted State Troopers flying by me at 80mph++ only to see the same car a mile or so down the road setting radar traps.

 

[sailaway78]

Notes from the other side

This is coming from the other side of the coin. That is, no way to pump out. Oh sure, the boat has pump out stuff. Nothing wrong with that. But where to pump is the problem. Here in Slidell, where I am, there is a marina about 15 minutes away. Before Katrina was a pretty big marina, with lots of live aboards. Now it is much smaller, with fewer boats, unsure about live aboards, but no pump out facility. I made a specific trip over there this morning to be sure. Next closest marina, don't know about pumpout, but that point is moot, as water is too shallow to get in with more than 3' draft. And thats it. Next marina for me would be a full days sail round trip. So, yeah, I do on occasion pump overboard. Try to not do this, and have even run offshore to pump out, but sometimes??? When I lived aboard in S.Texas a few years ago, the only marina there had several live aboards, and no pump out facilities. So, it is not always about how much you care about the environment. You NE and east coast guys do have some advantages.

 

[Joseph Shirley]

William, Thanks for the picture

My wife and I were both brought up in SE MA and lived in Groton, CT Newport, RI and Scituate MA. It's pleasing to see the boats all moored out again. It was a way of life I was accustomed to. Its not that way our in the NW. Everyone here has slips. I have a desirable slip but still miss the the way it used to be.Joe S

 

[We2Sail12113]

In Mass they charge the boaters for Pumpouts !

Hi Peggy,About 5 years ago the town of Fairhaven, MA (New Bedford Hbr) began charging locally moored/docked for pumpout maintenance, through increased annual fees. So for my 27 footer, they figure $150 (more / less)for "Waterway Usage" which includes the Pumpout Boat and shoreside facilities. (There is no charge for the pumpout itself, only through annual registered taxation!)Massachusetts offers pumpout boats in all popular moorages and anchorages, even remote ones like Hadley Harbor (Elizabeth Islands) and Lake Tashmoo (Marthas Vineyard).( The nice thing about Buzzards Bay is that it flushes twice a day . .. once towards Boston and the other toward New York! (smile). )Bob

 

[Beija Flor]

Much apoo about nothing, revisited ...

My marina, a few miles south of Alexandria, has a pumpout station but it has been disconnected. Doesn't worry me because I've just been day-sailing so far ... my portapotti dumps conveniently into the men's room toilet. I wouldn't feel safe hanging off the backstay to do what's necessary, but I do have a wide-mouth jar tucked in a lazarette and I have used it in a crisis.But I DO wish we could teach the geese at our marina to use the pumpout station. Very hazardous to bring your sails onto the grass to fold them http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/emot/yikes.gif

 

[SailboatOwners.com]

Final results

Final results for the Quick Quiz ending April 28, 2008:Wastewater on my boat... 72% is always discharged at legal pump stations only 16% is discharged at pump stations, unless that's impractical 09% bypasses holding tanks and goes directly overboard08% is more often discharged into local waters 

 

[rational]

Nice act, but not much more

I think everyone should make an effort to control the release of their holding tanks, but unless the Coast Guard is going to start putting diapers on every fish swimming in the ocean, I think it's wrong for regulation of recreational boaters waste release which is miniscule compared to government and commercial waste releases into our oceans.-Turd Herd