The one that did not get away from Hurricane Irene

Maine Sail · Sep 7, 2011

Bill Roosa said:
But to get back on topic, why do I have to share insurance costs with this type of individual? Even the insurance companies address this with the increased deductables during "named storms" I'm thinking there should be reduced rates and deductables for folks that can demonstrate either experience or class work that would lead one to believe they are at a lesser risk of damaging their vessels. Now that is a situation where I would gladly take a safety course cause it would let me buy more beer 8-D

I think the real answer here is that we don't share insurance. He was reportedly denied coverage for heading out in a named storm. Where is the "outrage" against the insurance company for being so "arrogant" in this situation to deny this individual coverage for is "home"..??

Not one person has vilified the insurance company just those of us who think the decisions the skipper made were illogical, dangerous and ones that put himself, girlfriend, cat and rescuers in dangers way. The insurance company denies coverage of his "home" and we're the ones getting vilified by some here and being called "arrogant".

Gunni · Sep 7, 2011

I would not purchase, and do not have, vessel insurance that increases the deductible during named storms. In fact, my carrier pays for half of my storm-related haul costs. Insurance rates for the Ches Bay are some of the best in the nation. There is plenty of information out there on how to prepare a boat for a storm, you just have to do your homework. Start by looking at what happened at your marina during past storms. The Potomac took a beating from surge during Isabel, hauling, or a proper mooring was the remedy.

justsomeguy · Sep 7, 2011

Bill Roosa said:
But to get back on topic, why do I have to share insurance costs with this type of individual? Even the insurance companies address this with the increased deductables during "named storms" I'm thinking there should be reduced rates and deductables for folks that can demonstrate either experience or class work that would lead one to believe they are at a lesser risk of damaging their vessels. Now that is a situation where I would gladly take a safety course cause it would let me buy more beer 8-D

Well, because that's how insurance works. The financial risk is spread among the policy holders.
But according to Main Sail, he was reportedly denied coverage, so your premiums shouldn't increase because of his actions/inactions.
But I wouldn't put too much faith in that either.

An interesting tack, Main Sail, vilify the insurer. As vilified as they already are, it'll be like water off a duck's back. In many ways, they've become a necessary evil.

Maine Sail · Sep 7, 2011

justsomeguy said:
An interesting tack, Main Sail, vilify the insurer. As vilified as they already are, it'll be like water off a duck's back. In many ways, they've become a necessary evil.

It was tongue in cheek....

The only one who deserves any questioning of their "arrogance" here is the skipper who put himself and others in harms way, NEEDLESSLY. The arrogance displayed in his attitude of "we can beat this thing" is inexcusable based on the possible life threatening outcomes to himself, rescuers, girlfriend and cat.

We've been called arrogant for simply questioning his thinking, and the Domino effect that followed, and no one has once questioned the insurance company or thought to petition them on his behalf or send letters or call in support of skipper..?

Perhaps we'll soon find out which company it was that denied coverage and then we can all boycott...

Lot's of bad in this just proposing a lighter take on it...

justsomeguy · Sep 7, 2011

Ah, I wish there was a "tongue in cheek" font!

Manureva · Sep 7, 2011

every single one of you on this forum should not think less about this captain, he his a VETERAN, his drinking problem migth be associated with the horror he saw during his career in the forces, and he tried to take his life, wouldn't you do the same if you where loosing the thing you love and cherish that happen to be your home. when the time came to sign the dotted line he did , you people did not for most of you, he stepped up to the line to keep you guys free, for god sake , he took the children parts of the wall in some of his mission or saw similar horror, he probably has a hard time sleeping from all those mission to keep you FREE... and you blame him for drinking, he migth be post traumatic for all you know

he did make a bad decision but it sounds like he did as much as he had to do to keep his boat safe, it failed but he did do his best

STOP TAKING HIM FOR A FOOL, HE MIGTH BE LIKE THAT BECAUSE HE DEVOTED PART OF HIS LIFE FOR YOUR BELOVED FREEDOM......

Rick486 · Sep 7, 2011

mesange said:

every single one of you on this forum should not think less about this captain, he his a VETERAN, his drinking problem migth be associated with the horror he saw during his career in the forces, and he tried to take his life, wouldn't you do the same if you where loosing the thing you love and cherish that happen to be your home. when the time came to sign the dotted line he did , you people did not for most of you, he stepped up to the line to keep you guys free, for god sake , he took the children parts of the wall in some of his mission or saw similar horror, he probably has a hard time sleeping from all those mission to keep you FREE... and you blame him for drinking, he migth be post traumatic for all you know

he did make a bad decision but it sounds like he did as much as he had to do to keep his boat safe, it failed but he did do his best

Click to expand

mesange said:
STOP TAKING HIM FOR A FOOL, HE MIGTH BE LIKE THAT BECAUSE HE DEVOTED PART OF HIS LIFE FOR YOUR BELOVED FREEDOM......

Well said. Great post.

The "arrogance" that causes the concern is the personal attacks on this guy. One post declared him insane. Another personally attacked his partner. No one who has posted on this board has claimed to know these people personally. They quote media reporting and we all know how reliable that is. IMO, their decision making and employment of their ground tackle and apparent failure of the bow roller are all fair game and good to discuss as that dialogue may help one of us make the right decision when faced with the situations they faced. What is not fair game is personal attacks on their backgrounds and behaviors. And most important, as Mesange says, these people served in the military and for that fact alone they deserve much more respect and empathy. They are a family. I was struck by his use of the words family, and home. None of us knows what went on and what was said between these folks before and during their attempted passage. Can we possibly imagine what it is like to move aboard and then lose the boat?

wetass · Sep 7, 2011

With regards to insurance companies denying in named storms - Im pretty sure mine stipulates that up front - Have to be in port for named storms (not necessarily with that exact language though - I'm sure its much more legalistic). So if it was made clear up front, can't really fault the insurance company. If I ever travel far and wide (in areas where they have time to name storms), I will probably look for another carrier. Up here in the northwest, they can't forecast accurately out more then a couple days. And I'm being lenient with the words forecast and accurate.

I do feel sorry for this guy though, just dont necessarily blame the insurance company. Armchair quarterbacking and 20/20 hindsight does make me feel better about my bad decisions on the water though - and there are more then I like to remember....

FourPoints · Sep 7, 2011

MrBill_FLL said:
Does anyone else find it strange that the anchors and rollers were ripped off the bow of that hunter?

I can see the chain ripped through the bow, so it was anchored to the hull... and the roller pulpit is just gone.. (earlier pics)

would this occur on any other production boat?

Someone I know with a columbia 42 had that happened to him off Nanny cay, tortola when is anchor got caught on a reef, and got pounded by the swells. He was too close to a lee shore to let out anymore scope... Ripped the bow to pieces.

Ross · Sep 7, 2011

I think that we have no knowledge of this man's military service. I and many others on this forum are veteran. Some have been in combat and many have been in harm's way. All of my duty assignments were in safe places. I knew many that went to Vietnam before most of America even knew the place existed. I knw men who served in combat during world war two, Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Desert Storm and in Iraq and Afganistan. Some of them were my kinsmen many were my friends.
To grant him a pass because he is a disabled veteran without knowledge of the source of his disability is not a tribute to the men and women that were indeed disabled in the pursuit of freedom.
He may have been in traumatic situations that pushed him over the edge and he may have simply had a drinking problem that got him discharged as unable to serve.

MrBill_FLL · Sep 8, 2011

Gunni said:
In a MacGregor 26 you should be on a trailer at the house, mast down, in a similar storm

ROTFL,

if I choose to ride out a storm on a macgregor, you can call me stupid, 'cause that's the kind of decision that would be! LOL. (even a pacific seacraft 26' is pretty small.)

I was thinking of a catalina, beneteau, pearson, or similar production boat in the 35-42' range. (or even something considered stout, like an IP, or caliber) (ie., my next boat.)

I guess I figured the bow would be better reinforced, since that's got to hold the whole boat against a storm...

-RE: decision making, MaineSail hit the nail on the head.
With the distance he needed to go, and time before the storm hit, and average SOG, plus the lack of engine, there was no way he could have made safe harbor.... and stopping before he made it was just STUPID!

Now, had he kept going though the night, and got caught, I'd feel a little different. But he just had a bad plan, then didn't follow through.

and now its going to cost him... and the city of Norfolk.
-The city of Norfolk had no say in creating this problem, but gets to pay for the clean up.

So, I can understand their frustration, and why they may do things differently next time... thus ruining it for the rest of us.

Still no sympathy here.

no one was hurt, and money CAN fix this problem.

I do appreciate his and everyone else that served, but its not a free pass forever.

Want to help, send a check to the city of Norfolk. They are paying to clean up his mess.

JohnS · Sep 8, 2011

I just hope the city hires someone who knows boats to do the demo, so that they can salvage items of value. Calabrese should at least get credit for the value of recovered parts subtracted from the expense of demo. Hopefully he can get it together enough to at least inventory what's salvageable.

Gunni · Sep 8, 2011

The City doesn't intend to demolish the boat. They just want to get it off the beach.

I expect it will end up in the back of some local yard and the owner will have to negotiate compensation for storage/repair with the yard.

KD3PC · Sep 8, 2011

It very well be that it is "removed" whole...but given that the property nearby is exclusive homes, and that digging/altering the beach is a real no-no anymore...the alternative is to demolish and remove it in pieces...that will have the least impact to the "environment" and has been the mode of choice in VA elsewhere....

MrBill_FLL · Sep 10, 2011

maybe tomorrow skipper ?

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...fort-help-michael-calabrese-6.html#post772072

more here:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...ort-help-michael-calabrese-12.html#post772541

Rick Webb · Sep 10, 2011

What is the Next Bizarre Twist?

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/09/fire-destroys-boat-washed-ocean-view-during-irene

It would have been hard to make this stuff up.

FourPoints · Sep 11, 2011

One of the comments on there said if they find the arsonist, assuming it isn't the owner, he could sue and actually get some $ out of the deal, they may have done him a favor.

Look at the before and after fire pics, looks like the fuller got reattached, and the charred drum is on the bow...

dparilla · Sep 11, 2011

Initial reports are that the owner has a solid alibi, he was called to the scene. One can only hope that they catch whoever did this. Regardless of errors or bad decisions, I feel really bad for Mike and his fiancée. It's a Hollywood plot, ever seen "Falling Down"?