THE REAL NEW HUNTER EXPERIENCE
Please Note:
1.) I have written this to help anyone interested in purchasing any boat. There are many problems I have encountered that you can avoid by taking them into consideration prior to purchasing a vessel. I highly recommend a purchase agreement that fully details the delivery of your vessel, and spells out what happens if the dealer fails to do so. Make sure this document is listed on the sales contract as a term and condition of the sale.
2.)I will start with an apology for the length of this thread. There is so much information, but I will keep it as brief as possible.
3.)I have attempted my best to do nothing more than list facts. I am very personally involved, but I’ve tried not to let that color my description. I apologize for the times I have failed in this attempt.
I have owned two Hunter Marine products in the past. I found both of these boats to be well laid out, thought through, and decently constructed vessels. They were by no means a Swan or Hinckley, but they offered a great value for a relatively low price and maintained a more than acceptable level of quality.
My third and last Hunter purchase was a 2009 Hunter 33. This boat has without a doubt been the poorest designed and built vessel I have ever owned. I have been paying to store and insure it now for more than six months, and have not had a single day aboard where everything has worked. I have received very little help from the dealership or the manufacturer to correct all of the defects with this vessel. I will start my story with the delivery of the boat:
On March 27th 2009 I was informed that the boat would be launched the next day, and that the facility Racine Riverside Marine selected for commissioning the boat did not provide an in-water area. I was told that I would have to supply a slip for them to finish putting the boat together. I was also asked to arrange transportation for the setup crew to return to their car at the other marina. I asked them to have one person drive the boat and one to drive the car.
The next day, the boat was moved to my slip. I was told that the boat was complete and delivered. I asked about a few specific systems and was told that everything was checked and working properly. I was also told that I needed to have the propane tank purged and filled because the one gas station they tried to have it filled at wasn’t selling propane that day. They also apologized for not cleaning the boat, giving me the excuse that they couldn’t bring a garden hose on the airplane. I asked about the engine alignment as the boat was only in the water for a couple of hours. I was told that as long as it didn’t make funny noises, it was fine. I was not given an opportunity to check out any of the systems myself, and I was not given an opportunity to sea trial the vessel.
After they left, I called Steve Paulson (my salesman) to inform him that I was very unhappy about the condition the boat was delivered in. I also asked about the inflatable dinghy I ordered to come with the boat. Steve asked me, “Well, when do you need it?” I told him that I paid for it almost a month ago, and I would need it as soon as possible. I quickly started to check out my new boat. I started at the bow and found that the anchor windlass would drop the anchor, but would get jammed every foot or so as it brought in the line. I also found that the refrigerator was not cooling, and the light would not come on. I checked the circuit breakers, and the refrigerator breaker was in as it should be. In frustration, I left the boat and headed home.
Monday March 30 I returned to the boat to create a list of all the problems that needed to be fixed. Many of them as simple as the commissioning crew didn’t bother to put a screw in place, but left it in a cup holder. Here is a list of what I found:
1. The entire boat is covered with dirt inside and out including wire shards on interior cushions.
2.The windlass does not work
3.The spinnaker halyard chase line was broke while the sails were being installed
4.The engine was never aligned by the manufacturer’s procedure
5.The refrigerator is not functioning at all
6.None of the LPG systems were checked, as the tank was not filled
7.I was recommended to purchase a c-map chip that the chart plotter installed won’t read
8.The air conditioning has very little airflow and does not cool the cabin (77deg with a 79deg outside temp, 81 with an 88 deg outside temp)
9.The stern rail seats are not screwed in place
10.The steering pedalstool guard is not screwed in place
11.Many cabinets not aligned / opening or closing properly
12.I was told that I needed to adjust the autopilot because it was too windy to do it that day
13.The mainsheet was installed by looping through the splice instead of using a shackle (see picture)
14.The cabin floorboards are warped and not aligned
15.Small wire fragments were left all over the interior
16.Many manuals for optional equipment are missing
17.NO Paperwork was provided at the time of delivery (No Bill of sale, MSO, etc.)
[URL="http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/SternRailSeats1.jpg%5b/img"]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/SternRailSeats1.jpg[/img[/URL]]
On April 6, I met with a local marine mechanic who was hired by Racine Riverside Marine to fix all of the problems caused by the poor commissioning and delivery, as well as the design flaws with the boat. He first looked at the windlass and informed me that the mounting position and anchor locker design didn’t meet the manufacturer specifications for the windlass and it would never work properly. We worked together on some rigging problems, and just finishing up the majority of items simply missed by Racine Riverside during setup. We found that the refrigerator was simply not connected electrically. This really frustrated me as I was told that all the systems were checked. The greatest amount of time he was aboard, he spent properly aligning the engine to the propeller shaft. Apparently it was way out of tolerance. He was never happy with the amount of shaft movement and mentioned that Racine Riverside had problems installing the propeller. He believes that the propeller may be out of balance.
[IMG]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/MainSheet.jpg
What do you think? 3 maybe 4 tacks before this line chafes through? How hokey can you get?
When I finally received paperwork on the sale, it didn’t even include the bill of sale required for Coast Guard documentation. It did however include a check for me to pay their sales tax to the state of Florida. I already paid my sales tax as part of the sales contract, and I couldn’t believe that Racine Riverside expected me to stand in line at the county courthouse to pay the taxes they owed to the state of Florida. I’m going to deviate from the time line a little to continue the story on the tax check. When I went to register the boat, and pay Racine Riverside’s taxes, the check they wrote me was about a thousand dollars short of what they collected from me in the sales contract. I called Racine Riverside while I was in line at the courthouse, and they faxed a new sales contract to make the tax amount correct. I registered the boat, and asked about the difference in the money I paid. The dealership couldn’t understand why I had a problem with this. Brad Strand at Racine Riverside only called and provided the correct tax to Florida and refunded me the difference after I told him I would be contacting the state attorney general’s office.
On April 7 I received an email from Brad that my dinghy and motor were finally on their way. I received another email on April 8 telling me that the dinghy shipped yesterday. On April 9 I received a phone call that the dinghy manufacturer was moving their shipping department and that it would be closed for the next two weeks. I don’t understand how the dinghy shipped on April 7, but now it can’t get shipped until the 14th. I was also disappointed that I paid for the dinghy and motor more than a month ago and they were just now ordering it and finding out that it would be a couple of weeks before it could be shipped. Had Racine Riverside ordered the dinghy when I paid for it, it would have arrived with or before the primary vessel.
I also received two of the missing manuals from Brad. The first manual he sent was for a marine air brand air conditioner (I have a pompanette air system installed). The other manual he sent was for the Raymarine C-80 chart plotter. This manual had chewed edges and dog-eared and worn pages. Both manuals were covered with mold and smelled like they were stored in a bilge for years. I could not believe this was how Racine Riverside Marine chose to treat their new boat customers.
On Monday April 13th someone came out and recharged the Freon in the air conditioner. This helped a little, but not much. The cabin was still hot with relatively low outside air temperatures. Since the beginning of March when I signed the contract on the boat I have been asking about the incentive from hunter to reimburse loan payments until September 1, 2009. Today, I finally found out who at Hunter I needed to give my loan information to. There is information forthcoming on this incentive.
The next day a little more work was done on board by the local contractor. Brad Strand from Racine Riverside showed up to “finish” delivery. He told me that Hunter was going to send a fiberglass guy to adjust the anchor locker for the windlass.
The next day, Brad brought an AB inflatable dinghy that I reluctantly agreed to replace the dinghy that I ordered. I wasn’t willing to wait several months after paying for the dinghy to receive it. With the new dinghy, I insisted on a larger outboard motor. Brad promised to ship the new motor later. A company representative from Pompanette Air also came to the boat today. He noted that both the high pressure and low pressure Freon caps on the system were not the caps that the unit was shipped with. He also noted that a remote temperature sensor that was needed for the unit to work properly was not installed. He installed the temperature sensor, and the air conditioner worked much better, but was still not cooling the cabin more than 10 degrees below outside air temperature.
It was Thursday April 16 when we took the boat out for my “sea trial” even though many systems aboard still did not work properly. On the “sea trial”, I found that the ST-60 Wind instrument was not working either. Upon our return I stated very clearly that I did not consider the boat having been delivered in working order and that many problems still existed. Brad left the next day with several items on the boat still not working properly. He assured me that they would be taken care of.
Anytime I mentioned to Brad that I did not feel I should have to pay to store, insure, and keep the hull clean on the vessel until the boat is working properly, he has responded that the boat is sailable. The reality is that I could have spent less than $1,000 to buy a boat that is just sailable. I spent a lot of money on a new boat so that it would work properly. I have also been told that the “upgraded” dinghy and motor more than paid for the deficiencies in delivery of the vessel.
On April 25, the outboard motor for the dinghy finally arrived. I opened the box and the engine hood was severely damaged. (see picture) I called Racine Riverside Marine, and they told me to use the hood from the smaller engine that they originally sent. When I told them that I wanted the proper engine hood, they sent one out, but it was from a power tilt model, so I still don’t have the proper engine hood. It’s just a small detail, but the kind of thing you expect to be correct when you spend more than $150,000.00 for a boat.
[URL="http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/BOAT035.jpg%5b/img"]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/BOAT035.jpg[/img[/URL]]
April 30, the fiberglass guy from Hunter came and worked on the anchor locker. He widened the channel leading from the windlass to the anchor locker. When he was finished, the windlass still piled up the anchor rode and jammed. Also, when he was done, the anchor locker hatch would not close because it was hitting the windlass. His solution was to sand the hole that the windlass sits in larger. To this day, the cover has to be stood on to close, and the windlass rubs on the cover anytime it is operated. On May 13, I received a new anchor rode that was supposed to work correctly. It did not. A few weeks later, I received an all chain rode as the windlass was feeding the chain better than the line. Even with an all chain rode, the shape and size of the anchor locker causes the rode to stack up and it jams the windlass.
By mid-June, I had not yet received any loan payment reimbursements from Hunter. I had made several calls inquiring about this. On June 22 I received a call that disturbed me greatly. The call was from Hunter Marine and I was told that due to the hard economic times the financial department was not making any outgoing payments that were not directly related to building boats. In just a few more days they would be 4 payments behind reimbursing me. I contacted the Florida State Attorney General’s office. On the 24th I received another call that Hunter would be sending two of the payments they owe me. When I received these payments, they were invoiced as April and May Payments. My loan payments started in March, and I believe Hunter is trying to avoid making this payment. A few weeks later I received a payment invoiced as June. I have not seen another payment since. I am still owed a payment for March, July, and August. I would highly suggest any factory incentives you are promised from the manufacturer you should get up front. In tough economic times Hunter Marine will simply not make payments that they promised to make when they sell the boat.
On June 29, I went to the boat to prepare it for the 4th of July weekend. When I got aboard, there was no power on anything. There was no 110 volt AC power, No 12 volt DC power. I first checked the circuit breaker in the lazarette where the shore power enters the boat as this breaker has popped many, many times before. The breaker was blown and I re-set it. I now had 110 volt AC from shore power at the circuit breaker panel and the air conditioner came on, but I was unable to get power to any of the outlets. I found out that when shore power was lost, the inverter kicked on and powered everything (nothing was on) until it ran the batteries dead. Without 12 volt power to the inverter, the inverter will not let 110 volt shore power to get to the outlets, or the microwave. Even with shore power, the inverter/charger would not charge the batteries. The display only gave a fault notice. The faulty inverter was replaced a few days later on the Thursday before the 4th.
I was starting to come to terms with the many problems of this vessel, and I was looking forward to the boat’s first trip with some of the equipment working. After a 1 hour motor to our destination, my wife and I started to cook dinner. I noticed that the food I was removing from the refrigerator was not that cold. The freezer section of the refrigerator was starting to defrost, and the soft drinks in the fridge were not cold either. I measured the temperature in the refrigerator at 67 degrees. I threw away all the food we stored for the weekend, and put several bottles of water in the separate freezer so we would at least have cold water. After 24 hours, there were NO ice crystals in the water at all. The freezer was maintaining a temperature around 35 degrees. On Monday, I called Racine Riverside and informed them that the refrigerator and freezer were not working either.
Three weeks to the day after I reported the broken refrigerator and freezer, someone came to the boat to “take a look” at them. The guy took temperatures in the fridge and freezer, told me that they both needed to be replaced and ventilation behind the units needed to be added. I emailed and asked Racine Riverside how long it was going to take to fix the boat. In that email, I also brought up that the air conditioner would not cool the cabin below 80 degrees even with outside temperatures in the low 90s even though they have told me multiple times that the air conditioner is working properly.
On July 28th the representative from Pompanette Air came back and installed an air conditioner with a larger blower in hopes of cooling the boat better. He also installed a second shore power inlet as Hunter had around 40 amps of equipment hooked to a 30 amp power inlet. While Pompanette was wiring the additional shore power outlet, I noticed that my waste tank was about ¾ full. My waste gauge was showing less then ¼.
The next day, I emptied the tank and started filling it with water. The gauge read completely empty until the tank was more than half full. I took measurements throughout the range of the tank and the gauge. Even with the tank so full that water was coming out of the vent, the gauge read less than full. When I emailed Racine Riverside about this problem, Brad Strand’s response was: “The head gauge doesn't go to the bottom of the tank or it gets gummed up so it will work read super accurate.” The first half of this sentence made sense to me, but I couldn’t understand the rest. When I asked for clarification, I was told that it was working properly.
[IMG]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/Pictures002.jpg
Gauge reading when the tank was overflowing through the vent
I also mentioned at this time that a replacement faucet handle for my galley sink didn’t match the other faucet handles on the boat. I told Brad that I would either need one of the older style faucet handles, or three of the newer style ones. For some reason, he sent me two of the newer style handles. Now, my head and galley sink faucet handles don’t match. The other disturbing thing was the condition of one of the handles he sent me. It was severely scratched and the screw cover was really chewed up. (see picture) This was obviously damaged when removing the handle, and not in shipping. I thought I had covered problems like this after Racine Riverside sent me moldy manuals. Apparently this is the best job they are willing to do for a brand new boat delivery.
[URL="http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/Handle.jpg%5b/img"]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/Handle.jpg[/img[/URL]]
I also asked about the floorboards that are very warped. Brad’s response was, “That is the problem with the floor board.” Again, I don’t know what this means. Does this mean that they will be fixed? Does this mean that they will always be this bad? Your guess is as good as mine. I called Hunter and told them I was having problems with Racine Riverside’s answers to my questions.
[IMG]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/Pictures020.jpg
You will hurt yourself walking around barefoot as I have these sharp 1/2 inch high ridges ever 2-3 feet in the cabin floor.
On August 7, it was more than a month since I reported that my refrigerator and freezer were not working. Another contractor came to the boat and installed a new fridge and freezer. They also installed a fan for ventilation. This fan runs continuously, there is no switch other than turning off the batteries completely. Even with the louder air conditioner blower, this fan is very audible. It is about 75 to 80% as loud as the engine blower. They still needed to add a compressor fan to the freezer, so they just set the freezer in place and didn’t re-install it.
The next day, someone came out and looked at the floorboards and waste tank sender. The waste tank sender doesn’t even go halfway down the waste tank, so a new one was ordered. It was determined that the floorboards warped because Hunter left the air conditioner to drain condensation into the bilge. I’m not sure how this caused the problem since these boards were warped from the first day the boat was delivered.
It wasn’t until the 19th that contractor for the refrigerator and freezer returned to finish the installation. When they finished, the lid to the freezer was no longer flush with the counter. They returned a couple of days later to install a switch so that I could turn off the extremely noisy fan. I told them that I really wasn’t happy about having a switch but felt it should be hooked up to come on automatically with either unit’s compressor running. I said this to the son of the owner of the company. He got very pissed and told me that that would require a relay. He then squared off to me and told me that I needed to call Hunter to get approval to do that because; then he rubbed his thumb and finger together indicating that he wanted to get paid. Feeling threatened, I called Hunter Marine and left a message while he stood right in front of me looking down at me. His dad showed up and the situation calmed down. I was told it would take a few days to order a relay. He returned on the 26th and installed a quieter fan with a switch and a relay. He also leveled the freezer lid a little better. It is still off, but he started talking about the amount of time Hunter would authorize to get it right, so I just gave up.
September 7th I found that the floor in the galley was de-laminating. The top veneer that looks like teak and holly was peeling away from the rest of the plywood. I lifted one of the bilge access panels to get a better look and discovered a leak in the elbow at the top of my air conditioner thru-hull. (see video and pictures) A couple of days later I returned to the boat to make sure it was still afloat. I started noticing spider cracks in the cockpit seats and at the stress points in the gel-coat. Spider cracks in six months? Are you kidding me?
[URL="http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/DSC_0007.jpg%5b/img"]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/DSC_0007.jpg[/img[/URL]]
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDO01qtrQE"]Video of the Leak[/URL]
[img][URL="http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/DSC_0009.jpg%5b/img"]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/DSC_0009.jpg[/img[/URL]]
Hunter’s Quality control
[IMG]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/DSC_0005.jpg
The 15th and 16th saw many emails back and forth between Hunter and myself. One of the big complaints was the windlass that still wouldn’t work properly (see video). I was told it was a design compromise to provide more head room in the forward cabin. When I said that selling something you know will not work properly is fraud, I was told that mine worked better than any other in the fleet due to the all chain rode. I sent him the same video I posted here and he said that it works as it should, it just “needs help”. Hunter offered to remove the windlass from the boat and reimburse me the cost of the windlass. When I said to wait a minute, “I purchased something you know does not work at retail price, and you want to return it for your cost?” I was told it was just an offer and I didn’t have to take it. The windlass was a big part of why I purchased the boat. I don’t understand how it can work properly and still “need help”. When I asked if they are actually suggesting putting a hand below an operating chain winch, It was recommended that I use a stick. However, it is not fraud because it does work properly.
Video of the windlass operating “properly” according to Hunter Marine
On the 18th, the contractor returned, and fixed the leak in the underwater plumbing. Check out the pictures of the fitting. I don’t understand how I can trust this boat to make a trip anywhere with the build quality. What is the point of having a boat that cannot be trusted to stay afloat much less leave the dock? He also swapped out the waste tank sender, and installed a shower sump to fix the air conditioner draining into the bilge. He also replaced the warped floorboards.
I really thought the boat might have a chance of actually coming together except for the windlass that will always “need help” since it is working properly. My parents were coming to town to visit, so I went to the boat to get it ready to take them out for the day. Anyway, I arrived at the boat and the air conditioner wasn't powered. It tripped the aft circuit breaker again. You know, the big one that shouldn't trip until the inside one has tripped? So I unlocked the lazarette and crawled in to find the breaker and re-set it. After I did, the air conditioner came back on. I stored my bags and went to grab a nice frosty beverage from the refrigerator. Nothing frosty in there, not even the freezer. It was 70 degrees in the fridge. This caused me to grab some ice from my separate freezer. No ice in the freezer, just a couple inches of water and some now spoiled meats. I emptied out the refrigerator and freezer for the 5th time since I've owned this piece of ****.
With both units at room temperature, I checked the status of the batteries:
According to my inverter/charger I am down to 9.4 volts and the inverter/charger is bulk charging at 0 amps. So I guess I have another Inverter problem, or maybe a DC electrical problem, or maybe another refrigerator problem and freezer problem. This is absolutely ridiculous.
[FONT="]I figured the best thing I could do for my batteries is to give them a nice long charge from the alternator. I put my family on board and headed out to the ICW for a couple of hours. Upon clearing my marina, I throttled up. The RPMs didn't really come up, so I added more. Then more, and more. I was finally at full throttle and I was only pulling 2,800 RPMs. Well, the boat wouldn't exceed 4 knots under power today.[/FONT]
[FONT="]I headed back to the marina and put the boat back into the slip. I went to hand out some drinks to find that the refrigerator was only at 60 degrees. So, the refrigerator still will not work anytime the engine is run.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Hunter told me that they could have someone look at the engine, but it it isn't a warranty item I would have to pay for the mechanics visit. I asked how a 6 month old engine with 25 hours on it could have a problem other than a warranty issue. I was told if it needed fuel filters, or something like that I would have to pay then fight with Racine Riverside over the bill.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Racine Riverside told me that they would cover anything other than "bad fuel". I told them that I haven't added any fuel and I have only been burning the fuel that THEY put in the boat. Why should I be responsible for that? They haven't answered.[/FONT]
I have now had this boat for more than six months. During that time, it has not worked properly a single day. I have asked multiple times for help from both the dealership and the manufacturer. The little bit of help I have received has been incomplete at best. I have been paying loan payments, paying to store and insure, and paying for bottom cleaning of a boat that has not worked properly a single day. If you have any plans on purchasing a new Hunter, please make sure you are willing to deal with this level of customer service.
I really appreciate those of you who stuck with me through all of this. I will keep this thread updated. I will leave you with a list of the problems I still have with the vessel:
1.Engine will not exceed 2,800 RPMs
2.Delaminated floor in the galley
3.Refrigerator and freezer stop working any time the engine runs for 1 hour or more
4.Anchor windlass still not working properly
5.Anchor locker cover does not fit over windlass properly
6.Propeller and or shaft out of balance
7.Hunter is another 2 months behind in reimbursing my boat payments (plus I truly believe they will never pay my first month)
8.AC circuit breaker in lazerette for air conditioner keeps popping
9.Inverter / Charger stops charging batteries for no known reason letting batteries run dead
10.Spider cracks in seats in cockpit and other stress points on the boat already.
Please Note:
1.) I have written this to help anyone interested in purchasing any boat. There are many problems I have encountered that you can avoid by taking them into consideration prior to purchasing a vessel. I highly recommend a purchase agreement that fully details the delivery of your vessel, and spells out what happens if the dealer fails to do so. Make sure this document is listed on the sales contract as a term and condition of the sale.
2.)I will start with an apology for the length of this thread. There is so much information, but I will keep it as brief as possible.
3.)I have attempted my best to do nothing more than list facts. I am very personally involved, but I’ve tried not to let that color my description. I apologize for the times I have failed in this attempt.
I have owned two Hunter Marine products in the past. I found both of these boats to be well laid out, thought through, and decently constructed vessels. They were by no means a Swan or Hinckley, but they offered a great value for a relatively low price and maintained a more than acceptable level of quality.
My third and last Hunter purchase was a 2009 Hunter 33. This boat has without a doubt been the poorest designed and built vessel I have ever owned. I have been paying to store and insure it now for more than six months, and have not had a single day aboard where everything has worked. I have received very little help from the dealership or the manufacturer to correct all of the defects with this vessel. I will start my story with the delivery of the boat:
On March 27th 2009 I was informed that the boat would be launched the next day, and that the facility Racine Riverside Marine selected for commissioning the boat did not provide an in-water area. I was told that I would have to supply a slip for them to finish putting the boat together. I was also asked to arrange transportation for the setup crew to return to their car at the other marina. I asked them to have one person drive the boat and one to drive the car.
The next day, the boat was moved to my slip. I was told that the boat was complete and delivered. I asked about a few specific systems and was told that everything was checked and working properly. I was also told that I needed to have the propane tank purged and filled because the one gas station they tried to have it filled at wasn’t selling propane that day. They also apologized for not cleaning the boat, giving me the excuse that they couldn’t bring a garden hose on the airplane. I asked about the engine alignment as the boat was only in the water for a couple of hours. I was told that as long as it didn’t make funny noises, it was fine. I was not given an opportunity to check out any of the systems myself, and I was not given an opportunity to sea trial the vessel.
After they left, I called Steve Paulson (my salesman) to inform him that I was very unhappy about the condition the boat was delivered in. I also asked about the inflatable dinghy I ordered to come with the boat. Steve asked me, “Well, when do you need it?” I told him that I paid for it almost a month ago, and I would need it as soon as possible. I quickly started to check out my new boat. I started at the bow and found that the anchor windlass would drop the anchor, but would get jammed every foot or so as it brought in the line. I also found that the refrigerator was not cooling, and the light would not come on. I checked the circuit breakers, and the refrigerator breaker was in as it should be. In frustration, I left the boat and headed home.
Monday March 30 I returned to the boat to create a list of all the problems that needed to be fixed. Many of them as simple as the commissioning crew didn’t bother to put a screw in place, but left it in a cup holder. Here is a list of what I found:
1. The entire boat is covered with dirt inside and out including wire shards on interior cushions.
2.The windlass does not work
3.The spinnaker halyard chase line was broke while the sails were being installed
4.The engine was never aligned by the manufacturer’s procedure
5.The refrigerator is not functioning at all
6.None of the LPG systems were checked, as the tank was not filled
7.I was recommended to purchase a c-map chip that the chart plotter installed won’t read
8.The air conditioning has very little airflow and does not cool the cabin (77deg with a 79deg outside temp, 81 with an 88 deg outside temp)
9.The stern rail seats are not screwed in place
10.The steering pedalstool guard is not screwed in place
11.Many cabinets not aligned / opening or closing properly
12.I was told that I needed to adjust the autopilot because it was too windy to do it that day
13.The mainsheet was installed by looping through the splice instead of using a shackle (see picture)
14.The cabin floorboards are warped and not aligned
15.Small wire fragments were left all over the interior
16.Many manuals for optional equipment are missing
17.NO Paperwork was provided at the time of delivery (No Bill of sale, MSO, etc.)
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On April 6, I met with a local marine mechanic who was hired by Racine Riverside Marine to fix all of the problems caused by the poor commissioning and delivery, as well as the design flaws with the boat. He first looked at the windlass and informed me that the mounting position and anchor locker design didn’t meet the manufacturer specifications for the windlass and it would never work properly. We worked together on some rigging problems, and just finishing up the majority of items simply missed by Racine Riverside during setup. We found that the refrigerator was simply not connected electrically. This really frustrated me as I was told that all the systems were checked. The greatest amount of time he was aboard, he spent properly aligning the engine to the propeller shaft. Apparently it was way out of tolerance. He was never happy with the amount of shaft movement and mentioned that Racine Riverside had problems installing the propeller. He believes that the propeller may be out of balance.
[IMG]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k39/tlindou/Boat%20Delivery/MainSheet.jpg
What do you think? 3 maybe 4 tacks before this line chafes through? How hokey can you get?
When I finally received paperwork on the sale, it didn’t even include the bill of sale required for Coast Guard documentation. It did however include a check for me to pay their sales tax to the state of Florida. I already paid my sales tax as part of the sales contract, and I couldn’t believe that Racine Riverside expected me to stand in line at the county courthouse to pay the taxes they owed to the state of Florida. I’m going to deviate from the time line a little to continue the story on the tax check. When I went to register the boat, and pay Racine Riverside’s taxes, the check they wrote me was about a thousand dollars short of what they collected from me in the sales contract. I called Racine Riverside while I was in line at the courthouse, and they faxed a new sales contract to make the tax amount correct. I registered the boat, and asked about the difference in the money I paid. The dealership couldn’t understand why I had a problem with this. Brad Strand at Racine Riverside only called and provided the correct tax to Florida and refunded me the difference after I told him I would be contacting the state attorney general’s office.
On April 7 I received an email from Brad that my dinghy and motor were finally on their way. I received another email on April 8 telling me that the dinghy shipped yesterday. On April 9 I received a phone call that the dinghy manufacturer was moving their shipping department and that it would be closed for the next two weeks. I don’t understand how the dinghy shipped on April 7, but now it can’t get shipped until the 14th. I was also disappointed that I paid for the dinghy and motor more than a month ago and they were just now ordering it and finding out that it would be a couple of weeks before it could be shipped. Had Racine Riverside ordered the dinghy when I paid for it, it would have arrived with or before the primary vessel.
I also received two of the missing manuals from Brad. The first manual he sent was for a marine air brand air conditioner (I have a pompanette air system installed). The other manual he sent was for the Raymarine C-80 chart plotter. This manual had chewed edges and dog-eared and worn pages. Both manuals were covered with mold and smelled like they were stored in a bilge for years. I could not believe this was how Racine Riverside Marine chose to treat their new boat customers.
On Monday April 13th someone came out and recharged the Freon in the air conditioner. This helped a little, but not much. The cabin was still hot with relatively low outside air temperatures. Since the beginning of March when I signed the contract on the boat I have been asking about the incentive from hunter to reimburse loan payments until September 1, 2009. Today, I finally found out who at Hunter I needed to give my loan information to. There is information forthcoming on this incentive.
The next day a little more work was done on board by the local contractor. Brad Strand from Racine Riverside showed up to “finish” delivery. He told me that Hunter was going to send a fiberglass guy to adjust the anchor locker for the windlass.
The next day, Brad brought an AB inflatable dinghy that I reluctantly agreed to replace the dinghy that I ordered. I wasn’t willing to wait several months after paying for the dinghy to receive it. With the new dinghy, I insisted on a larger outboard motor. Brad promised to ship the new motor later. A company representative from Pompanette Air also came to the boat today. He noted that both the high pressure and low pressure Freon caps on the system were not the caps that the unit was shipped with. He also noted that a remote temperature sensor that was needed for the unit to work properly was not installed. He installed the temperature sensor, and the air conditioner worked much better, but was still not cooling the cabin more than 10 degrees below outside air temperature.
It was Thursday April 16 when we took the boat out for my “sea trial” even though many systems aboard still did not work properly. On the “sea trial”, I found that the ST-60 Wind instrument was not working either. Upon our return I stated very clearly that I did not consider the boat having been delivered in working order and that many problems still existed. Brad left the next day with several items on the boat still not working properly. He assured me that they would be taken care of.
Anytime I mentioned to Brad that I did not feel I should have to pay to store, insure, and keep the hull clean on the vessel until the boat is working properly, he has responded that the boat is sailable. The reality is that I could have spent less than $1,000 to buy a boat that is just sailable. I spent a lot of money on a new boat so that it would work properly. I have also been told that the “upgraded” dinghy and motor more than paid for the deficiencies in delivery of the vessel.
On April 25, the outboard motor for the dinghy finally arrived. I opened the box and the engine hood was severely damaged. (see picture) I called Racine Riverside Marine, and they told me to use the hood from the smaller engine that they originally sent. When I told them that I wanted the proper engine hood, they sent one out, but it was from a power tilt model, so I still don’t have the proper engine hood. It’s just a small detail, but the kind of thing you expect to be correct when you spend more than $150,000.00 for a boat.
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April 30, the fiberglass guy from Hunter came and worked on the anchor locker. He widened the channel leading from the windlass to the anchor locker. When he was finished, the windlass still piled up the anchor rode and jammed. Also, when he was done, the anchor locker hatch would not close because it was hitting the windlass. His solution was to sand the hole that the windlass sits in larger. To this day, the cover has to be stood on to close, and the windlass rubs on the cover anytime it is operated. On May 13, I received a new anchor rode that was supposed to work correctly. It did not. A few weeks later, I received an all chain rode as the windlass was feeding the chain better than the line. Even with an all chain rode, the shape and size of the anchor locker causes the rode to stack up and it jams the windlass.
By mid-June, I had not yet received any loan payment reimbursements from Hunter. I had made several calls inquiring about this. On June 22 I received a call that disturbed me greatly. The call was from Hunter Marine and I was told that due to the hard economic times the financial department was not making any outgoing payments that were not directly related to building boats. In just a few more days they would be 4 payments behind reimbursing me. I contacted the Florida State Attorney General’s office. On the 24th I received another call that Hunter would be sending two of the payments they owe me. When I received these payments, they were invoiced as April and May Payments. My loan payments started in March, and I believe Hunter is trying to avoid making this payment. A few weeks later I received a payment invoiced as June. I have not seen another payment since. I am still owed a payment for March, July, and August. I would highly suggest any factory incentives you are promised from the manufacturer you should get up front. In tough economic times Hunter Marine will simply not make payments that they promised to make when they sell the boat.
On June 29, I went to the boat to prepare it for the 4th of July weekend. When I got aboard, there was no power on anything. There was no 110 volt AC power, No 12 volt DC power. I first checked the circuit breaker in the lazarette where the shore power enters the boat as this breaker has popped many, many times before. The breaker was blown and I re-set it. I now had 110 volt AC from shore power at the circuit breaker panel and the air conditioner came on, but I was unable to get power to any of the outlets. I found out that when shore power was lost, the inverter kicked on and powered everything (nothing was on) until it ran the batteries dead. Without 12 volt power to the inverter, the inverter will not let 110 volt shore power to get to the outlets, or the microwave. Even with shore power, the inverter/charger would not charge the batteries. The display only gave a fault notice. The faulty inverter was replaced a few days later on the Thursday before the 4th.
I was starting to come to terms with the many problems of this vessel, and I was looking forward to the boat’s first trip with some of the equipment working. After a 1 hour motor to our destination, my wife and I started to cook dinner. I noticed that the food I was removing from the refrigerator was not that cold. The freezer section of the refrigerator was starting to defrost, and the soft drinks in the fridge were not cold either. I measured the temperature in the refrigerator at 67 degrees. I threw away all the food we stored for the weekend, and put several bottles of water in the separate freezer so we would at least have cold water. After 24 hours, there were NO ice crystals in the water at all. The freezer was maintaining a temperature around 35 degrees. On Monday, I called Racine Riverside and informed them that the refrigerator and freezer were not working either.
Three weeks to the day after I reported the broken refrigerator and freezer, someone came to the boat to “take a look” at them. The guy took temperatures in the fridge and freezer, told me that they both needed to be replaced and ventilation behind the units needed to be added. I emailed and asked Racine Riverside how long it was going to take to fix the boat. In that email, I also brought up that the air conditioner would not cool the cabin below 80 degrees even with outside temperatures in the low 90s even though they have told me multiple times that the air conditioner is working properly.
On July 28th the representative from Pompanette Air came back and installed an air conditioner with a larger blower in hopes of cooling the boat better. He also installed a second shore power inlet as Hunter had around 40 amps of equipment hooked to a 30 amp power inlet. While Pompanette was wiring the additional shore power outlet, I noticed that my waste tank was about ¾ full. My waste gauge was showing less then ¼.
The next day, I emptied the tank and started filling it with water. The gauge read completely empty until the tank was more than half full. I took measurements throughout the range of the tank and the gauge. Even with the tank so full that water was coming out of the vent, the gauge read less than full. When I emailed Racine Riverside about this problem, Brad Strand’s response was: “The head gauge doesn't go to the bottom of the tank or it gets gummed up so it will work read super accurate.” The first half of this sentence made sense to me, but I couldn’t understand the rest. When I asked for clarification, I was told that it was working properly.
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Gauge reading when the tank was overflowing through the vent
I also mentioned at this time that a replacement faucet handle for my galley sink didn’t match the other faucet handles on the boat. I told Brad that I would either need one of the older style faucet handles, or three of the newer style ones. For some reason, he sent me two of the newer style handles. Now, my head and galley sink faucet handles don’t match. The other disturbing thing was the condition of one of the handles he sent me. It was severely scratched and the screw cover was really chewed up. (see picture) This was obviously damaged when removing the handle, and not in shipping. I thought I had covered problems like this after Racine Riverside sent me moldy manuals. Apparently this is the best job they are willing to do for a brand new boat delivery.
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I also asked about the floorboards that are very warped. Brad’s response was, “That is the problem with the floor board.” Again, I don’t know what this means. Does this mean that they will be fixed? Does this mean that they will always be this bad? Your guess is as good as mine. I called Hunter and told them I was having problems with Racine Riverside’s answers to my questions.
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You will hurt yourself walking around barefoot as I have these sharp 1/2 inch high ridges ever 2-3 feet in the cabin floor.
On August 7, it was more than a month since I reported that my refrigerator and freezer were not working. Another contractor came to the boat and installed a new fridge and freezer. They also installed a fan for ventilation. This fan runs continuously, there is no switch other than turning off the batteries completely. Even with the louder air conditioner blower, this fan is very audible. It is about 75 to 80% as loud as the engine blower. They still needed to add a compressor fan to the freezer, so they just set the freezer in place and didn’t re-install it.
The next day, someone came out and looked at the floorboards and waste tank sender. The waste tank sender doesn’t even go halfway down the waste tank, so a new one was ordered. It was determined that the floorboards warped because Hunter left the air conditioner to drain condensation into the bilge. I’m not sure how this caused the problem since these boards were warped from the first day the boat was delivered.
It wasn’t until the 19th that contractor for the refrigerator and freezer returned to finish the installation. When they finished, the lid to the freezer was no longer flush with the counter. They returned a couple of days later to install a switch so that I could turn off the extremely noisy fan. I told them that I really wasn’t happy about having a switch but felt it should be hooked up to come on automatically with either unit’s compressor running. I said this to the son of the owner of the company. He got very pissed and told me that that would require a relay. He then squared off to me and told me that I needed to call Hunter to get approval to do that because; then he rubbed his thumb and finger together indicating that he wanted to get paid. Feeling threatened, I called Hunter Marine and left a message while he stood right in front of me looking down at me. His dad showed up and the situation calmed down. I was told it would take a few days to order a relay. He returned on the 26th and installed a quieter fan with a switch and a relay. He also leveled the freezer lid a little better. It is still off, but he started talking about the amount of time Hunter would authorize to get it right, so I just gave up.
September 7th I found that the floor in the galley was de-laminating. The top veneer that looks like teak and holly was peeling away from the rest of the plywood. I lifted one of the bilge access panels to get a better look and discovered a leak in the elbow at the top of my air conditioner thru-hull. (see video and pictures) A couple of days later I returned to the boat to make sure it was still afloat. I started noticing spider cracks in the cockpit seats and at the stress points in the gel-coat. Spider cracks in six months? Are you kidding me?
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[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDO01qtrQE"]Video of the Leak[/URL]
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Hunter’s Quality control
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The 15th and 16th saw many emails back and forth between Hunter and myself. One of the big complaints was the windlass that still wouldn’t work properly (see video). I was told it was a design compromise to provide more head room in the forward cabin. When I said that selling something you know will not work properly is fraud, I was told that mine worked better than any other in the fleet due to the all chain rode. I sent him the same video I posted here and he said that it works as it should, it just “needs help”. Hunter offered to remove the windlass from the boat and reimburse me the cost of the windlass. When I said to wait a minute, “I purchased something you know does not work at retail price, and you want to return it for your cost?” I was told it was just an offer and I didn’t have to take it. The windlass was a big part of why I purchased the boat. I don’t understand how it can work properly and still “need help”. When I asked if they are actually suggesting putting a hand below an operating chain winch, It was recommended that I use a stick. However, it is not fraud because it does work properly.
Video of the windlass operating “properly” according to Hunter Marine
On the 18th, the contractor returned, and fixed the leak in the underwater plumbing. Check out the pictures of the fitting. I don’t understand how I can trust this boat to make a trip anywhere with the build quality. What is the point of having a boat that cannot be trusted to stay afloat much less leave the dock? He also swapped out the waste tank sender, and installed a shower sump to fix the air conditioner draining into the bilge. He also replaced the warped floorboards.
I really thought the boat might have a chance of actually coming together except for the windlass that will always “need help” since it is working properly. My parents were coming to town to visit, so I went to the boat to get it ready to take them out for the day. Anyway, I arrived at the boat and the air conditioner wasn't powered. It tripped the aft circuit breaker again. You know, the big one that shouldn't trip until the inside one has tripped? So I unlocked the lazarette and crawled in to find the breaker and re-set it. After I did, the air conditioner came back on. I stored my bags and went to grab a nice frosty beverage from the refrigerator. Nothing frosty in there, not even the freezer. It was 70 degrees in the fridge. This caused me to grab some ice from my separate freezer. No ice in the freezer, just a couple inches of water and some now spoiled meats. I emptied out the refrigerator and freezer for the 5th time since I've owned this piece of ****.
With both units at room temperature, I checked the status of the batteries:
According to my inverter/charger I am down to 9.4 volts and the inverter/charger is bulk charging at 0 amps. So I guess I have another Inverter problem, or maybe a DC electrical problem, or maybe another refrigerator problem and freezer problem. This is absolutely ridiculous.
[FONT="]I figured the best thing I could do for my batteries is to give them a nice long charge from the alternator. I put my family on board and headed out to the ICW for a couple of hours. Upon clearing my marina, I throttled up. The RPMs didn't really come up, so I added more. Then more, and more. I was finally at full throttle and I was only pulling 2,800 RPMs. Well, the boat wouldn't exceed 4 knots under power today.[/FONT]
[FONT="]I headed back to the marina and put the boat back into the slip. I went to hand out some drinks to find that the refrigerator was only at 60 degrees. So, the refrigerator still will not work anytime the engine is run.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Hunter told me that they could have someone look at the engine, but it it isn't a warranty item I would have to pay for the mechanics visit. I asked how a 6 month old engine with 25 hours on it could have a problem other than a warranty issue. I was told if it needed fuel filters, or something like that I would have to pay then fight with Racine Riverside over the bill.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Racine Riverside told me that they would cover anything other than "bad fuel". I told them that I haven't added any fuel and I have only been burning the fuel that THEY put in the boat. Why should I be responsible for that? They haven't answered.[/FONT]
I have now had this boat for more than six months. During that time, it has not worked properly a single day. I have asked multiple times for help from both the dealership and the manufacturer. The little bit of help I have received has been incomplete at best. I have been paying loan payments, paying to store and insure, and paying for bottom cleaning of a boat that has not worked properly a single day. If you have any plans on purchasing a new Hunter, please make sure you are willing to deal with this level of customer service.
I really appreciate those of you who stuck with me through all of this. I will keep this thread updated. I will leave you with a list of the problems I still have with the vessel:
1.Engine will not exceed 2,800 RPMs
2.Delaminated floor in the galley
3.Refrigerator and freezer stop working any time the engine runs for 1 hour or more
4.Anchor windlass still not working properly
5.Anchor locker cover does not fit over windlass properly
6.Propeller and or shaft out of balance
7.Hunter is another 2 months behind in reimbursing my boat payments (plus I truly believe they will never pay my first month)
8.AC circuit breaker in lazerette for air conditioner keeps popping
9.Inverter / Charger stops charging batteries for no known reason letting batteries run dead
10.Spider cracks in seats in cockpit and other stress points on the boat already.
