The New Balmar Smart Gauge

Exile

.
May 17, 2014
8
Bristol 47.7 Norfolk, VA
I would parallel the 2 batteries directly, not through the 1-2-all switch. A larger bank is always more efficient, Smartgauge or not. The Smartgauge should be connected directly to the posts of the paralleled bank.
The only advantage I can think of to paralleling the batts. via the switch is that I have the option of isolating one should it be going south, or should I want to conserve it on a long passage for whatever reason (lost charging sources, for e.g.). Having said that, I've thus far only ever left the switch in the ALL position for the reason you mentioned. If I paralleled the batts. themselves as you suggest, I suppose the 1-2-ALL switch would then be superfluous and I may as well replace with it a simple ON-OFF. Sound about right?

Thanks for the help. From what I'm reading, it sounds like I may also be replacing my Victron monitor with a Smartgauge.
 
Apr 4, 2013
11
Hunter 420 passage Turkey
The New Balmar SmartGauge is now 10 years old.

It is NEW to Balmar who seem to have taken over the marketing as Merlin have now almost abandoned the yachting market. I think they tried to sell it but nobody believed it would work, including the MD who bought it from Chris Gibson. Gibbo is now locked in a room doing secret defence work so is unlikely to answer any emails, or sadly develop a LIFePO4 algorithm, unless the Military demand it.

I've had mine several years now and couldn't be happier with it. My BEP just gets more and more inaccurate as my 1050 Ah Lifelines get into their 10 year. I have tried all the combinations a capacity, Peukerts and Charge Efficiency to try and get it to read anywhere close to the SmartGauge, but have now given up and leave it just counting Amps.

Here in the Uk a SmartGauge and a cheap digital Amp/Ah counter is probably cheaper than many Battery Monitors - and then you get two gauges to look at both at the same time!
 
Sep 28, 2008
922
Canadian Sailcraft CS27 Victoria B.C.
The only advantage I can think of to paralleling the batts. via the switch is that I have the option of isolating one should it be going south, or should I want to conserve it on a long passage for whatever reason (lost charging sources, for e.g.). Having said that, I've thus far only ever left the switch in the ALL position for the reason you mentioned. If I paralleled the batts. themselves as you suggest, I suppose the 1-2-ALL switch would then be superfluous and I may as well replace with it a simple ON-OFF. Sound about right?
The best way to conserve is to start with more AH. 2 batteries in parallel, for a given current use, will have more AH than the same 2 batteries as separate banks. There is no reason to ever separate them.

Do you have a starting battery other than these 2? If so (and you should) the 1-2-both switch does have a use.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I read the replies to this post as well as the Smartgauge manual where it says to wire directly to the battery posts. My house battery bank consists of two Lifeline 8D's which are only paralled together via the 1-2-ALL switch. All of the batteries' neg posts are wired together (incl. a separate eng start batt), but not the positives. What would be the easiest way to install the Smartgauge under this scenario, or would it require two? Thanks for all the research & effort checking this product out.
There should be no reason for two house banks separated by a switch that can or does get used as your main ON/OFF.. If you want a permanently ON hidden parallel switch, (pretty much just a nuisance IMPH) then you can add one in the battery compartment but it just adds to voltage drops etc..

I just went through this similar scenario on a J-42 that was using two 4D's the same way and trying to get accurate readings from an Ah counting battery monitor. IT DOES NOT WORK.....

We wound up permanently paralleling the 4D's and then adding a small "aux" battery, an Odyssey PC1500 which is nice and compact but has gobs of starting current..

Parallel the two 8D's and add a second small "reserve" battery to the #2 position on the battery switch. If batteries ever go south you simply take them off-line and switch to the reserve bank. Now disconnect the negatives and let the batteries sit for 6-10 hours and watch which bank drops voltage fastest. That is your bad or poor performing AGM.. Often times if one battery in a bank has failed the other battery is not far behind.

I would also recommend keeping your Ah counter but jut use it for amps or even cumulative Ah consumption but don't try to translate it to the SG for SOC unless you've painstakingly capacity tested and gone through all the motions with your Ah counter to get it accurate...
 

Exile

.
May 17, 2014
8
Bristol 47.7 Norfolk, VA
There should be no reason for two house banks separated by a switch that can or does get used as your main ON/OFF.. If you want a permanently ON hidden parallel switch, (pretty much just a nuisance IMPH) then you can add one in the battery compartment but it just adds to voltage drops etc..

I just went through this similar scenario on a J-42 that was using two 4D's the same way and trying to get accurate readings from an Ah counting battery monitor. IT DOES NOT WORK.....

We wound up permanently paralleling the 4D's and then adding a small "aux" battery, an Odyssey PC1500 which is nice and compact but has gobs of starting current..

Parallel the two 8D's and add a second small "reserve" battery to the #2 position on the battery switch. If batteries ever go south you simply take them off-line and switch to the reserve bank. Now disconnect the negatives and let the batteries sit for 6-10 hours and watch which bank drops voltage fastest. That is your bad or poor performing AGM.. Often times if one battery in a bank has failed the other battery is not far behind.

I would also recommend keeping your Ah counter but jut use it for amps or even cumulative Ah consumption but don't try to translate it to the SG for SOC unless you've painstakingly capacity tested and gone through all the motions with your Ah counter to get it accurate...

Nice to know the Ah counter function on the Victron monitor would still be accurate enough to be useful, although I've been dubious whether I have it correctly wired & programmed given my somewhat unusual battery set-up.

Speaking of, thanks for the helpful info. I've been trying to get a handle on this since acquiring the boat in 2007. I don't want to improperly hijack MS' thread, but to complete the picture my boat also has -- for better or worse -- a 3rd LifeLine 8D with a separate ON-OFF switch that is used for engine starting only. This has always seemed wasteful to me, and my goal has been to wire this 3rd 8D into the house bank.

My only hesitation thus far has been that this eng start batt is charged via the primary engine alternator, whereas the two existing house batts are charged by a second alternator on the engine. The primary alt/eng start batt is wired through the engine's starter, so if this start batt is paralleled into the house bank, then the entire, newly expanded house bank (3 8D's) would be used to start the engine. From the testing I've read from MS in this area, this doesn't seem to be a problem. As I understand it, having two alternators (both internally regulated) simultaneously charging the same bank of batts. is also OK; they will both be fully utilized during bulk phase but one will kick off as the batts. start topping off. If necessary, Balmar makes an external regulator designed for this situation.

I hope I'm making sense describing my system here, and again, I can take this discussion elsewhere if more appropriate. My boat was built in 1986, and I suspect the current set-up reflects the notion at that time of a large, separated battery that is devoted solely to engine starting, and doesn't account for the higher demands on house banks from modern electronics, etc. As far as a reserve, I should add that there is a 4th battery -- a LifeLine G24 that is used solely to start the 8kw generator -- and this is kept charged via a BEP/VSR echo-type charger, along with an alternator on the genset. Based on the specs in my engine manual, this could also be used (theoretically) to start the main engine (80hp, 4-cyl. Westerbeke) in a pinch.

There are many options here, but it would be nice to get this done the easiest way possible, especially since the current set-up as a whole has worked well thus far. (And I don't want to screw it up!). Thanks for all the help. Dan
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,003
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Dan, your description is very good. If you haven't already, I would recommend you start a wiring diagram. That will help you clarify what you have as well as being a good point to decide on what, if any, modifications you may choose to make.
 
Sep 28, 2008
922
Canadian Sailcraft CS27 Victoria B.C.
I would combine the three 8D's for a large house bank, assuming similar age and condition. When they are replaced I would use 6 volt golf carts, both for ease of handling and deep cycling ability. Buy a start battery - group 27 is a good choice - and wire it to #2 on the switch, with the three 8D's on #1. With 2 alts use the one with less output for the start battery and the other for the house bank. The VSR used to charge the gen battery I would wire between the house bank and the gen battery.

Wire the Smartgauge to the 3 battery house bank posts directly as stated in the instructions.
 

Exile

.
May 17, 2014
8
Bristol 47.7 Norfolk, VA
Dan, your description is very good. If you haven't already, I would recommend you start a wiring diagram. That will help you clarify what you have as well as being a good point to decide on what, if any, modifications you may choose to make.
Yes, a wiring diagram is an excellent idea, especially since I have never been able to uncover one with the ship's papers. I've even contacted Ted Hood's office, but to no avail. I think just the exercise of creating a wiring diagram will be a great learning tool, along with having an essential reference when things go wrong or I want to modify as you say. I've already started labeling wherever I can, and plan on tracing wires when I'm next onboard. On my rather complex boat, this will be a BIG project, although I'm not going to even worry about the 110 system until later down the road. Dan
 

Exile

.
May 17, 2014
8
Bristol 47.7 Norfolk, VA
The Balmar Centerfielder requires a MC-614 regulator on each alternator. Along with those probable $1000 in hardware plus installation and changing the alts to external regulation. Not a good investment. http://www.balmar.net/centerfielder.html
I don't think it's a wise expenditure either, especially with the system working as well as it has been. I plan instead on refurbishing the two existing alternators, and probably purchasing inexpensive spares. I try and minimize engine use anyway, and with the genset I'm usually charging off the 110v charger when under sail. I plan to add solar down the road. Dan
 

Exile

.
May 17, 2014
8
Bristol 47.7 Norfolk, VA
I would combine the three 8D's for a large house bank, assuming similar age and condition. When they are replaced I would use 6 volt golf carts, both for ease of handling and deep cycling ability. Buy a start battery - group 27 is a good choice - and wire it to #2 on the switch, with the three 8D's on #1. With 2 alts use the one with less output for the start battery and the other for the house bank. The VSR used to charge the gen battery I would wire between the house bank and the gen battery.

Wire the Smartgauge to the 3 battery house bank posts directly as stated in the instructions.
All of my batteries are four years old, but they've had an easy life mostly plugged in at the dock (hate to admit but regrettably true). The only potential issue is that the engine start battery has had an even easier life than the two house batts., so may suffer some (but probably not a lot).

An add'l eng start battery wired to the #2 switch is probably a good idea safety-wise. The only problem I see with using the lower output alt to charge this new start batt is that it only leaves the second alternator to charge all of the three 8D's that will comprise the house bank. That's about 675ah, and even if I upgraded to a 100amp alt it still falls short of the 25% rule. Of course, I only have two 50amp alts now so I guess it would be the same! The other issue is that my 110v charger, like most, only has three ports/charging wires, and it recommends attaching the charging & temp sensor wires to each batt vs. each bank. So I guess my question is whether it's advisable to run two VSR's off the house bank, each feeding one of the two start batts. This would mean I could leave most everything else in place and minimize some hassle & expense, but it also means I've really put all my eggs in one basket (namely the house bank).

I've heard great things about 6v golf cart batts. for both durability & ease of installation, but generally only about the flooded type. I notice they also make AGM's, however. I know flooded are generally longer-lived, but do you know anything yea or nay about the AGM type?
 
Sep 28, 2008
922
Canadian Sailcraft CS27 Victoria B.C.
You can run 2 VSRs off of one bank. I would use an Echo Charge though as the start batteries do not need much current to top up after starting - the Echo Charge passes up to 15 amps.

Not sure what you mean by "putting all your eggs in one basket" as you will have 2 separate starting batteries (main engine and gen) in addition to the house bank. The larger the bank the more efficient it is, both in terms of charging as well as drawing from it. The batteries will also last longer if combined in one bank.

Golf cart batteries, whether flooded or Agm, will have thicker plates than 12 volt batteries, allowing more cycles.
 

Exile

.
May 17, 2014
8
Bristol 47.7 Norfolk, VA
You can run 2 VSRs off of one bank. I would use an Echo Charge though as the start batteries do not need much current to top up after starting - the Echo Charge passes up to 15 amps.

Not sure what you mean by "putting all your eggs in one basket" as you will have 2 separate starting batteries (main engine and gen) in addition to the house bank. The larger the bank the more efficient it is, both in terms of charging as well as drawing from it. The batteries will also last longer if combined in one bank.

Golf cart batteries, whether flooded or Agm, will have thicker plates than 12 volt batteries, allowing more cycles.
Thanks. Very helpful info on running the VSR's/echo chargers, and on using golf cart batts., whether FLA or AGM. My reference to "putting all my eggs in one basket" was a comment about only having one charging source -- namely the house bank -- to charge both eng & genset start batts (w/the VSR/echo). This is assuming, of course, that I leave my current alt. & 110v charger configuration hooked up only to the three 8D's that would comprise the house bank. As you point out, however, having a larger house bank & separate engine starting batts. will add reliability & efficiency to the overall system.

Getting back to the thread topic, it does sound like the SmartGauge is a wise investment, and I will likely be purchasing one through MaineSail's website.

Thanks again for all the good advice. Dan
 
Sep 28, 2008
922
Canadian Sailcraft CS27 Victoria B.C.
The house bank doesn't charge the other batteries with either the VSR or the Echo Charge. The VSR only closes to parallel the banks when a charging voltage exists, when this voltage drops it isolates the banks. The Echo Charge only passes current to the other battery when a charging current is present.
 

Exile

.
May 17, 2014
8
Bristol 47.7 Norfolk, VA
The house bank doesn't charge the other batteries with either the VSR or the Echo Charge. The VSR only closes to parallel the banks when a charging voltage exists, when this voltage drops it isolates the banks. The Echo Charge only passes current to the other battery when a charging current is present.
OK, I think I understand. In effect, the charging source -- in my case either the alt or the 110 charger -- will be directly charging the start batts. It's just that the charging current will pass through the house bank via the VSR/echo.

You can see why the simplicity of the Smart Gauge is appealing to a layman like me!
 
Sep 28, 2008
922
Canadian Sailcraft CS27 Victoria B.C.
I have a Xantrex Link 10 that is like the Victron and others. I will probably add the Smartgauge for its accuracy and keep the Link 10 for amp counting.