The Monster Returns

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Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
You know how the monster always returns in the last scene of a horror movie? That was my day. Damn, the things I could have written about if I I’d gotten to it last night instead of having a wonderful dinner with Lee and Lynn in Hamburg Cove (Somebody who knows about this place, write about it please.)
The evening check of the engine oil last night showed just a hint of the beginning of darkening. Not bad for nearly 25 hours of running. We had a beautiful run down the river in morning fog lifting in the rising sun trying to make Port Jefferson before the hard south west winds predicted for tomorrow. They met us at the breakwater. We should have turned around but it was one of those dumb decisions influenced by some commitments Lee and Lynn have in the Big Apple and my desire to stay with them for the LIS trip. (Their cooking is a big factor in that.)

We were met by conditions way, way worse than forecast. I didn’t even want to go back through the seas in the breakwater once we were in them. We settled down to a long miserable slog thinking it must be a morning thermal wind that would subside to the forecast conditions.

Strider is a great powerboat. I called them in their Bristol 38 to ask if they could pick up the pace a bit and they said they were flat out at 2700. I was pulling away from them at 2300. Their boat is faster in flat water but the way Strider goes through nasty stuff keeps her speed up even if it makes me wet.

About an hour and a half into the slogging, just as we were thinking about turning around, the oil alarm chirped. I shut down and looked in the engine compartment to find oil everywhere and the drip pan full. Lee and Lynn turned back as well and went back up the Connecticut River. I wanted to get to Mystic where there are more options and I know people. I rolled out the jib and immediately was having a beautiful dry sail with the windvane steering and me on the cell phone trying to line up TowboatUS and a place to land.

It was heartbreaking how beautiful it was and thinking that this could well be Strider’s last sail. It’s true what they say about cell phones. I looked up from one call to see a buoy go by about 50 feet away. I almost sank my boat. BTW, those of you watching my SPOT, please don’t call when you see me stop and then turn around, I’m probably dealing with something difficult.

Conditions got worse. I soon had the hatch boards in and was getting soaked running downwind. That hasn’t happened before. I also missed the security call for a sub leaving Groton and nearly got busted by the USCG. I was doing 3.5 knots under bare poles when TowboatUS tried to pick up the tow. We decided I could just sail that way into the lee of a point and do it there.

I spent the afternoon calling and visiting mechanics. It is depressing how divergent expert opinions are. A doctor friend once told me that is the dirty big secret of medicine. The oil was pure black this time with no sign of water. The mechanic who replaced the head said he didn’t think there was anything wrong with the engine. It is installed at an angle beyond the Yanmar specs and I drive the boat into stuff few people would think about doing. He said he was sure it was just the heavy pitching and a dipstick housing very close to the oil level because of the extreme shaft angle.

At his suggestion, I did a standard oil change, which it was about time for anyway and cleaned the bilges and drip pan. I then warmed up the engine, put it into gear and ran it hard. Sure enough, five minutes running with the dipstick removed and there was no sign of oil in the drip pan or coming out of the dipstick.

I called the mechanic to tell him he was a genius. While we were talking and phone backslapping, I took another look. There was oil running down alongside the engine beds. I looked at the drip pan again and it was half full. I told him I would call him back.

I looked in the engine and confirmed that the dipstick tube was clean but oil was on the engine behind it and sprayed up on the sides of the compartment. There was oil showing around the bell housing. Then, it hit me. The water pump seals were blown out by the pressure of the water intrusion. The rear oil seal, ironically what I first thought of the when I lost oil last spring, must have been strained just enough to hold until this morning when it blew out.

I called the mechanic back and we agreed that must be the problem. He thinks that it could be replaced by just moving the engine instead of taking it out of the boat. Only another grand.

After I hung up, I pulled everything out of the quarterberth converted to clothes storage compartment and looked in the engine compartment access where I can get a better view of the bell housing. There was a pool of oil on top of the bell housing. No way it could have gotten slung up there by the flywheel slinging it around from a leaking rear seal. The vent openings of the bell housing were clean and dry.

There is a high pressure oil line running just above this point. The line was looking quite dozy and worn when we took it off and put it back on. It’s not clear that yet that it is the leak but the oil seems to be coming from somewhere high up on the engine which makes me very optimistic that this will turn out to be some easily replaced external part that got stressed during the gasket replacement. I don’t see any evidence that it is a broken ring or other cylinder problem as I spent hours this afternoon in black depression about.

BTW before anyone asks, I checked the whole breather and water trap system. Absolutely clear. I could blow easily through it and there was no more oil in the bowl than in the picture in my previous post. The hose at the connection to the intake manifold was so clean I didn’t even taste oil when I blew through it.

Tomorrow, I’ll pull everything out of the cockpit locker, fire up the engine, and crawl in to find the leak. If the pan could fill up that fast, it shouldn’t be that hard to spot. Gentleman and ladies, place your bets.

I’m very optimistic that I will shortly be back on the road south and writing about topics like all the beautiful things I have seen and experienced in the past few days. However, black depression and pessimism has always seemed to work for me before. Let’s hope this sunny new outlook doesn’t screw up my karma.
 
May 1, 2011
4,248
Pearson 37 Lusby MD
Roger, very sorry to hear about your latest misfortune. All the best in finding the leak tomorrow!
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,780
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
You have good karma (this from a Californian!). Think of it like this: you've fixed just about everything else, why not this one? Good luck, all the best.
 
Jun 4, 2004
287
Beneteau Oceanis 352 NYC
I have a 3GM with an external high pressure oil line and it has failed on me twice in the past 3 years, very small pin holes which were very hard to see until I got it off the boat.
 

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
It is always darkest before the dawn.
You've weathered other misfortunes and you shall weather this one too.
I just hope it ends up being a relatively cheap fix.
 

RobG

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Jun 2, 2004
335
Ericson 28 Noank, Ct
Yeah Roger a hell of a sleigh ride hu? I watched you on Spot as you passed New London while watching the sub leave on the UCONN web cam. I didn't pick you up on the cam until you passed the Dumplings because of the sun. I thought you might be having some fun seeing the sub and sailing past the CG doing drills with the helecopter and a cutter. I watched you round the point with all of the chunk around thinking man, that's rough stuff...sorry to hear you had a heavy load on your mind. I did catch Strider on the Seatow web cam at my marina Noank Ship Yard at the mouth of the Mystic river. My mooring is one of them in the background. Missed the fact she was being towed somehow. Hope the pic doesn't bum you out - she's still very pretty. Can't clip and paste the Sailflow sensor data for Fisher's on this computer. Will add it tomorrow. 20 - 25 following. Yikes...:eek:
http://avptcam.uconn.edu/view/index.shtml
 

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May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
Im betting on the oil line, but a leaking main oil seal could sling oil everywhere. The first reason im betting on the line is that oil seals dont normally fail suddenly. They usually start out slow and gradually increase. And fresh new oil usually slows them down, not speed them up. The second reason is simply that by taking it off and putting it back on, and your description of it being knarly.

You would be wise to look that engine over carefully and thoroughly and replace as many seals or fittings as time or wallet allow. Another failure item are oil pressure sending units. They can empty an oil sump in minutes if they blow out. If a factory part is expensive or hard to locate, a universal type from O'Rielly would suffice quite well.

Quite often, as an engine moves past middle age, a failure of one component can cause a cascade or other failures. If you compare the engine to a chain whose links do not all wear equally, a failure of one link weakens all the others. A blown head gasket causes localized overheating, putting stress on local components, hoses that wear already marginal could be stressed. A hot running engine could shorten the life of the water pump. Hot running could speed up the clogging of a heat exchanger. Etc., etc..

Whenever a major failure occurs, a prudent approach is to check and clean all the systems, and replace all the consumables, leaving nothing to chance. I am rather curious why your mechanic didn't insist that oil line be replaced if you noticed it was old yourself, but I didnt see it and wasnt there. Ive been replacing a lot of high pressure hydraulic lines on my excavator, and have yet to have one exceed $40.

I would even bet good money, that someone here would be more than happy to meet you somewhere down the coast to help you replace that main seal and spif the motor up for a few beers or a day teaching some sailing, making sure that motor is ship shape. I know I would. Also, O'Rielly should be able to make up a new oil line for you if you can bring it to them, or know someone who can. You shouldn't need a mechanic for that job.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
That would work to get out from a marina and back, but it would not work well for long range travel. Some hate to consider or accept the fact that a diesel engine is about the most efficient powerplant on earth, or that a gallon of diesel fuel has more energy, per pound, than any other readily available fuel while simultaneously being relatively inert to fire or explosion.

Take the typical sailboat, say a 27 footer with a 15 HP diesel. Some can cover 20 miles or more on a gallon of fuel. A small 10 gallon fuel tank could therefore push you 200 miles. A 40 gallon tank could offer nearly 800 miles of range. To provide the same range in a similar sized boat, an electric drive would need a huge mass of batteries, and require nearly as many hours to recharge as it took to drain them down. If your could charge them at sea, your now burning fuel you could have used for propulsion, and just halved your potential efficiency. The diesel boat only needs stop and refuel his tiny fuel tank, and be off again.

Electric drive works, and would help a great many eleviate a lot of maintenance many are wont to do. But if your really into going somewhere, a diesel is still by far the best choice. Myself, I dont mind one or two batteries in the living area for running low power systems. But no way would I want to have a giant bank of batteries inside with me for a propulsion system, and there really isnt anywhere else to put them. One good short and you have a huge and very dangerous problem.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
I had a foreboding feeling we were not out of the woods yet Roger. I know the head gasket was replaced but it didn't seem(from what I've read) it was concluded to be faulty.

This is not an old engine(mine is about the same age), but it is not a new engine. There could be several things going on, most age related, contributing various symptoms. Assume nothing is always good advice for something as complicated as this.

It is a true mystery though of which I'm completely hooked. Someone mentioned an oil sender. I had a leak I couldn't find for some time that was just that. The wrong sender thread (28 vs 27 tpi) would leak quite a bit under power, hit the upper side of the oil pan ledge, move aft, and drip off of the bell housing, looking like a seal failure.

I still don't trust your oil catch(sorry :) ). I would remove it and go back to stock just to be sure it is not an intermittent problem.

I hope a single culprit is soon found in this mystery, good luck.
 

Bob J.

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Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
Hope you find the source of your leak & it's a simple fix so you can continue your journey!
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,894
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Hoping it is the oil line, Roger.. 3 banjo connections on that one piece of tube.. Hoping it is something that was recently messed with..like that..
 

Jimm

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Jan 22, 2008
372
Hunter 33.5 Bodkin Creek - Bodkin YC
Roger - Hoping the fix turns out to be simple (both for time and money). Last trip out my oil pan filled - it appears the problem was a leak at the attachment of the dip stick tube to the bottom of the pan. Waiting on a part, and hoping that was all it was.............
Watched your turn around on SPOT - a great piece of technology to have on board! Two years into mine and I don't leave the slip without it being on.......
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Hoping the fix turns out to be simple ..
Could it be as simple as this?



I was unable to reproduce any of my findings of yesterday. I cleaned up the engine and it is not leaking anywhere. I think the oil puddle and on the high pressure line was some I spilled while filling. I found the trace line down from the filler cap.

I've thrown all the conflicting opinions up in the air and picked the ones that landed face up. These include those of some very smart sounding guy next door who mostly service high end power boat and have a lot of experience with high shaft angle engines. They have powerboats pump out their oil in heavy seas all the time.

The plan: Keep this bungy, run with a bit less oil, and continue on to the next place where something happens.

Whatever is blowing the oil out seems to happen very quickly and intermittently. The guys next door don't think it's the rings. It only blew out last night to the level they think is right for an engine installed as as high an angle as mine. It didn't blow out this morning because it had found its natural level.

I should be on my way tomorrow after a lot of clean up.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
Ive spent a lot of time stamping out fires after some major engine work. You take an engine half apart and things that wernt a problem before suddenly raise their ugly head. Once you get all the fires out it will settle down and behave, just keep pushing it and keeping a close eye on it, and fixing the lil things that pop up.

Think of it like a submarine just out of dry dock after a major refit. With all the pipe joints, fittings, and valves, the first descent shows a lot of leaks and the crew runs around tightening everything. Sometimes they have to surface and completely redo a fitting. But each new descent brings less leaks, and they are able to probe the depths a bit deeper. I think your going to fine.

Not rings. Oil under pressure is fed to the crankshaft, and is spraying off the rod and main bearings like a high pressure car wash. As long as there is oil pressure, there is always a great deal of oil being sprayed into the cylinders. If you had bad rings they would be bad all the time, not intermittently.

Generally the same for oil lines, they dont normally leak intermittently. I would redo that line though before heading out, just because. Not sure on the bungee fix. If it didnt leak before, why now? Your breather should be able to deal with crankcase pressure, unless its plugged or something.
 
Apr 22, 2001
497
Hunter 420 Norfolk, VA
"I’m very optimistic that I will shortly be back on the road south"

No Problem ... I've told the band to stand by, told the cheerleaders to get part-time jobs as NFL referees (till further notice), sampled the adult beverages ( only to assure quality control and excellent stress/pessimism relief) ...
and told the mechanics not to go on vacation....yet.

Still looking forward to seeing you soon near MM- 0.

Oh, BTW, just to make you feel more at home when you get here, I have a friend who is a retired submarine CO .. I'll see if he can arrange for another sub to be leaving (Norfolk) Navel Base as you're approaching...:)
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,894
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Looks like a fix to me, Roger.. Get a metal spring (Ace hardware?), though, because the heat and oily atmosphere will kill that bungy in a few weeks..
Press Onward !!
 

xcyz

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Jan 22, 2008
174
Hunter 376
Not the Fix Roger..

Roger,
It seems as if there is something else at work here. I know you and everyone reading your posts are hoping for the best but you've had the boat long enough to know the answer isn't a bungee cord to hold the dipstick down. The engine wasn't doing that before your trip, was it?

You sight the fact that you may have spilled some oil while filling, I think you would have cleaned that up as soon as it was spilled especially knowing the issues you have recently experienced and the heighten awareness.

What's causing the high pressure to be developed in the case to push out the stick? I know an engine case has to breath, Yanmar had to provide for that, is that not working?

We all wish you the best...
 
May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
Roger check your temperature sender to insure you may be getting a warning if the engine reaches an over heat temperature. An engine under a sustained heavy load will experience a rise in temperature which if high and not detected could lead to oil thinning and increased blow-by compression. Overheating is probably the primary cause for head gasket failure. Thin oil under elevated crankcase pressure can leak through fairly good seals. If you could eliminate heat related possibilities from your diagnosis you may further narrow down the cause of the problem. In the meantime and until you determine the culprit I would recommend you do not run the engine against heavy load. Go with the current, head for shore or make way under sail. I'm starting to lean to a diagnosis of worn piston rings and cylinder liners which when the oil thins allow blow -by compression to increase crankcase pressure and pushes the dipstick up forcing the oil out. If my inclination should be correct the proper repair would be to
rebuild the engine but there is also a temporary cure that might extend the life of the engine for many hours and that is to use thicker oil. A multi-grade 15W40 plus an additive like STP viscosity enhancer. This will raise compression and reduce blowby and oil thinning. An old but messy trick can be to remove the oil filler cap to allow relief for the crankcase pressure. The sporadic problems which you have been experiencing are not consistent with leaky oil lines and failed seals. Something is exacerbating a condition causing the leaks. That is my bet and I'm back to my original Chesapeake diagnostic.
 

Jimm

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Jan 22, 2008
372
Hunter 33.5 Bodkin Creek - Bodkin YC
For what it's worth, recommendations from my mechanic to help with minor blowby issues --

Lucas Oil products - engine oil stop leak
Bar's 16 oz engine repair
Bardahl no smoke and stop leak

they may be worth a try to help get rid of the gum or soot build up in the compression rings
 
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