The Mechanical Mystery Tour Continues

[Roger Long]

Posted underway from the scene of the oil loss incident:

Cruising at 2300 RPM for the past 3 1/2 hours with not sign of oil leakage or high crankcase pressure. I ran at 2400 (80%) continuous power for a while to be sure things were good and hot and the engine working.

I‘ve been checking frequently. I pulled the oil breather line off from the downstream side of the liquid trap and can just barely feel the slightest pulsing outflow. No additional oil or even condensation in the trap. I took off the oil fill cap and the outflow is what I would describe a baby’s breath, maybe a very sick and weak baby. Anyway, it is nothing like was coming out yesterday.

I never added oil after the brief burp I experienced at the dock. Dipstick read about 3 – 3 1/2 quarts this morning. That’s about 1/8” below where I usually fill it. The Portsmouth mechanic who put the gasket in filled it with 4 quarts putting it about 1/4” above that. I put the same amount in when I drained and refilled yesterday.

I think yesterday’s blow out was a burp. Pressure built up due to the higher oil level than I have run at for the past 5 years. The dipstick popped up and spewed oil until the pressure equalized. It then dropped back in. The high outflow from the filler cap I saw after that yesterday was probably the result of oil blow around where it shouldn’t be. Overnight everything drained back and the engine is running normally.

I think the last post in my previous thread have nailed it. I have been running right on the hairy edge of the maximum oil I can get away with while pitching heavily. That little bit of extra created all this educational entertainment.

One last look: Everything as previously described except that I can’t feel anything coming out of the oil fill cap now.

 

[justsomeguy]

Hope this caps your issue, and you keep on. G'luck.

 

[anchorclanker]

I would pass on a compression test, its not necessary. Spend the money on a new oil line and start making tracks south, problem solved. Do retorque the head soon though.

 

[Bob J.]

Hopefully you leave the gremlins behind & make your way south with no further issues!

 

[Don12364]

Makers determine engine oil levels with the crankshaft horizontal fore & aft. Is yours at any serious angle, and is the dipstick at one end of the sump?
Might make all the difference.
Regards.

 

[Roger Long]

Quick update - more later. I'm in Branford 50 or so long miles later. Engine ran flawlessly, better than it's ever run. I looked back after it was good and hot and there was NO SMOKE. That's the first time I haven't seen the proper light grey smoke that follows me around. (I've never seen black smoke or even white smoke with this engine.)

It's definitely the extra oil the mechanic added during the head gasket replacement.

 

[anchorclanker]

Wonderful news, just wonderful.

Just a suggestion should it occur again and your in heavy chop. Shut down the engine and wait a few minutes. On a restart, providing this is the problem, the oil should have settled and the engine should run fine again.

If this indeed puts the issue to bed, a permanent solution would be to modify the oil pan by deepening it, extend the oil pickup down to the new bottom and nearer the back, and install some kind of windage tray. Additionally you could even widen the lower sides to give more oil capacity.

 

[kloudie1]

Great News, Roger.

 

[Shoaldrafter]

reply

Roger,

All these posts about oil. Tell us about your
sailing companions. Where are they?

Ed K

 

[sea_casper]

It's definitely the extra oil the mechanic added during the head gasket replacement.

Adding "x" amount of oil after removing old oil only works if all the old oil was removed.
Did the mechanic add "x" amount of oil, or go by dipstick?

 

[Roger Long]

Tell us about your
sailing companions. Where are they?

Port Jefferson.

 

[Roger Long]

This whole event illustrates two important principles. The first is how easy it is to overlook the obvious when you have too much data. I think there is conclusive evidence and a broad consensus among the various posters that the oil level was too high.

The reason for the oil level shows the second principle which is very important when dealing with doctors. They may have been to medical school and have all that experience but there are aspects of your own body (or engine) that you know better than anyone on earth. You forget that at your peril.

I’ve always left a bit less than a quart of oil in the gallon jug with refilling the engine. It’s now clear from five years of operation, some of that in heavy seas, that this was probably just a hair below the level where the crank can contact the oil surface setting off a foaming event. I knew about this and have always been very careful about the oil level. (The first oil event was caused by other factors which you can look back in the posts to research if you are interested. )

When the mechanic in Portsmouth filled the engine after the gasket replacement, he asked me how much I put in and I told him. He put in that much, looked at the dipstick, and thought it would take the rest of the jug. After spending a day being completely impressed with his knowledge and skill, I didn’t question him on it. The result was the oil being about a quart above the level I’ve run at all the time I’ve had the boat.

Even after the pitching created foaming event, I was still so sure of his opinion that I added the same amount. Since I was pumping out of the dipstick with cold oil, there was probably more oil left in the engine than when he filled it after all the cleaning out and evacuating the oil with his big vacuum rig.

My second oil addition raised the oil level high enough that it foamed at the dock with no motion after a few minutes running. The crankcase pressurized and the oil probably burped out quickly after the dipstick popped up. Incidentally, I didn’t add any oil subsequently. I’ve been running all day on what was left after the burp. It was just about a quart which made a huge mess of the bilge but it got the engine to its natural level.

All this anxiety and the marina fees could have been avoided if I had just stuck to my guns in Portsmouth and said, “Not a hair above the top mark. I know that works for this engine.” Remember this the next time you are talking to a doctor or a mechanic.

I’ve also learned that I probably need another 1/8 inch down on the dipstick as a safety margin in water rougher than I usually let myself get into. I’ll probably run with higher oil in the smooth water of the ICW but I’m going to be sure the oil level is proper before facing open water.

The other interesting thing I learned is how an engine will continue to produce high crank case pressures and oil filler blow out for quite a while after a foaming event. It takes overnight and some heat for things to calm down.

 

[Roger Long]

Did the mechanic add "x" amount of oil, or go by dipstick?

He did it by "X", looked at the dipstick, and then added some more. I do the same thing. Where we differed is on how high it ended up on the dipstick. He went for for about 1/8 inch higher than I do which made all the difference when the boat got into a heavy pitching situation.

I see now why dipstick marking on the multi-million dollar research vessels I used to design with their high angle engines was always taken so seriously on sea trials.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Course you know you can't really get rid of gremlins Roger. Sure you can chase them from place to place on the boat but to really get rid of them you have to anchor up with someone else and entice the gremlin with stuff like "boy your boat sure runs good", "you say you never have any engine problems?", and the like.
Yes it is mean, but it is really the only way.
I like to anchor out with guys from the club that brag about their boats.......keeps them humble!

 

[dugout]

This whole event illustrates two important principles. The first is how easy it is to overlook the obvious when you have too much data. I think there is conclusive evidence and a broad consensus among the various posters that the oil level was too high.

"Occam's Razor" comes to mind.

 

[Buck420]

Course you know you can't really get rid of gremlins Roger. Sure you can chase them from place to place on the boat but to really get rid of them.....

Band's still ready, ... cheerleaders never had a chance, ... I've replaced the "beverages" twice (well, there HAS been LOTS of worry and stress) ....and ...
the mechanics are smiling serenely ...

Continued good luck ...We're all looking forward to the next chapter(s)

 

[Shoaldrafter]

oil pan

He did it by "X", looked at the dipstick, and then added some more. I do the same thing. Where we differed is on how high it ended up on the dipstick. He went for for about 1/8 inch higher than I do which made all the difference when the boat got into a heavy pitching situation.

I see now why dipstick marking on the multi-million dollar research vessels I used to design with their high angle engines was always taken so seriously on sea trials.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

It was said, "huge mess of the bilge". My old boat
does not have an oil pan. One of my projects is to
make one that can be lifted out, of course that is a
challenge. I will likely make it in two parts. But that
will keep oil leakage in mats and not in bilge.

After Roger's stories this moves up the to do list. It
has been pointed out to me that my engine does not
have an oil pan.

One can be made from glass mat and epoxy
using cardboard box as mold.

I guess a naval engineer could develop algorithms to
compute the volume expansion of oil in engine at
different temps. Then plug the algorithms into a 3D
rendition of engine to see when it pops the cork?

Ed K

 

[Roger Long]

Engine ran flawlessly and continuously for 56.5 nm over 11.5 hours yesterday at a fast cruise of 2300 RPM. I'm optimistic that cruising will start to look like this again.

Lee and Lynn's Serendippity in Hamburg Cove.

 

[kloudie1]

A good cigar and some port are in order!
Nice shot of Lee and Lynn's boat !

 

[anchorclanker]

but to really get rid of them you have to anchor up with someone else and entice the gremlin with stuff like "boy your boat sure runs good", "you say you never have any engine problems?", and the like.

I was at a model airplane park where people fly R/C models. There were three guys with planes up. I cautiously walked over to one guy while he was horsing his model around the sky, and asked the dumbest question I think I ever asked.

"You ever have mid air collisions?" He said he had not heard or read of one in the more than 20 years he had flown models.

SMACK! The heavier parts came down first, an engine here, a battery there, another engine over yonder. Then the lighter bits slowly filtered down around us. I just quietly backed away and left without saying another word, sorry I ever opened my mouth.

Since that day I try very hard not to verbalize my thoughts. I dont even utter things like "boy honey, its sure been a long time since we had a flat!". Sure as heck it will happen soon as I do.