The IDEAL take-along cooler?

[shemandr]

And what fun would that be?
One reason, other than I'm not smart enough, that I didn't go into engineering is that arguments about heat transfer rates would have me rigging up a noose to hang myself.
It's an f'ing cooler! It'll mildew. It'll leak. Only through my management it won't have stinking rotted squid or other bait in it. It will have half a ham sandwich swimming in two day old ice and I may even eat it if I'm hungry enough. And the beer will be warmer than the sandwich.
That's what they call a constant in physics.

 

[jibes138]

My grandfather, who raised three kids during the great depression, taught me to drink my beer at room temperature. Great way to save on ice.

Just a refresher on ice. We all know ice freezes at 32 degrees. What many people don't consider is that ice will reach equilibrium with whatever the surrounding temperature is. So if you start your trip with really cold ice it will last a lot longer than ice that is just barely below the freezing point. People that sell ice will purposely sell you ice that isn't very cold so they can sell you more ice faster. If you buy your ice put it in your freezer at home for a day or two to get it really cold.

 

[woodster]

My grandfather, who raised three kids during the great depression, taught me to drink my beer at room temperature. Great way to save on ice.

Just a refresher on ice. We all know ice freezes at 32 degrees. What many people don't consider is that ice will reach equilibrium with whatever the surrounding temperature is. So if you start your trip with really cold ice it will last a lot longer than ice that is just barely below the freezing point. People that sell ice will purposely sell you ice that isn't very cold so they can sell you more ice faster. If you buy your ice put it in your freezer at home for a day or two to get it really cold.

yes to all you said ....

when i was in my late teens and early 20's we had a place at the lake in the ozarks and would go there almost every weekend ...mom would get the old wax milk cartons rinse them out and fill with water and store them in the deep freezer and that was our ice for the weekend or three day trips and it worked a lot better than the store bought ice...but also back then ice was better if you got it from the local ice house/plant in blocks and a lot cheaper in them days

 

[ggrizzard]

I have two Polar bear coolers and love them. I haven't noticed the cooler sweating after two days in sunny FLA.

 

[Brian S]

For references' sake, I pulled out my soft side cooler. This was purchased in the early 90's which means it's at least 20 years old. It was made by Horizons LTD, still in business as SoftCoolers: http://www.softcoolers.com

It never got consistent hard use over the whole 20 years, but it hasn't been babied, either. Not as nice looking a junction at the zipper as Jackdaw's cooler. His idea of a soft cooler to fit perfectly into the icebox is really great for daysails or races. It might not do as well for cruising due to loss of space. On the other hand, the R value of a poorly built icebox will get significantly better!

I hear from the cruisers that block ice lasts much longer than store-bought cube ice. There is probably much more thermal mass in a block of ice than a bag of cubes. The idea of freezing store-bought cube ice even colder before using makes a lot of sense. It would increase it's thermal capacity - a certain amount of time would be required to raise the temp of the ice to 32º so that it can start to melt.

It's always great to get new ideas from y'all!

Given I have a small boat, I use a small hard side cooler that fits under the companionway. It might not be a bad idea to keep that for food, and use the softie in the cockpit for just drinks. Hmmm...

 

[jibes138]

Block ice can be hard to find so I make my own. I just take Tupperware containers you use to hold cakes fill half way or so and freeze it. They have soft sides that allow for the water expansion. Hold it upside down under hot water for a couple seconds and the ice pops out. Put it in a plastic grocery bag and back in the freezer. Small food containers also work well to make small blocks in say quart size or half gallon size. If you make these well in advance they will always be available for your trips if you have the freezer space.

 

[Gunni]

There really is no iceman conspiracy, and a lot of us grew up boating with block ice coolers for good reason. The ability of ice to keep something cold is hugely dependent on the mass of the ice. Relatively speaking it takes very little heat to warm a mass of ice 1 degree, but it takes A LOT of heat to warm the same mass of ice from frozen to water. The huge heat absorption during this change of phase (solld - liquid) is what makes ice work so well. There is very little value in supercooling ice, much more value in stripping the heat from your food and drink - pre-cool them so they have less heat to contribute.

Now, consider the space occupied by 10 lbs of block ice with that of 10lbs cubed, you get much more ice mass in a block. So a block of ice gives you way more heat absorption capacity than a similar volume of cubes. Then, by limiting the surface area available to air, or melt water you further limit the heat transfer necessary to melt ice. After that, it is insulation and conduction. We know water has much greater heat conduction capacity than air; limit the surface area of your ice to water by keeping your block high and dry.

 

[Chief RA]

To conserve space make your ice in ziplock bags. They don't leak and can be refrozen many times. Chief

 

[MrBill_FLL]

better yet, use 2 liter bottles with water you want to drink eventually, or .5 liter water bottles.

block ice is great, but you just throw out that melted water. Frozen 2 liter bottles are still pure, and drinkable.

My problem with all the soft coolers is the zipper.

Salt and zippers never seem to last very long. -even when washing and using wax/lip balm on them.

 

[pateco]

Igloo makes a yeti knock off for $200 now

My lovely wife gave me an early Father's Day present last night. Yukon 70 quart cold locker, and a new jib halyard. I did a lot of research comparing the different rotomolded designs YETI, YUKON, RTIC, ENGLE, PELICAN, GRIZLY etc. There are really a lot of great options, but many would not fit the space I have on the sole by the quarter berth to put a cooler. It came down to a choice between the RTIC 45, and the YUKON 70. My son wanted extra space for any fish we catch, so I decided on the larger YUKON.

 

[Mark Maulden]

Dry ice?

 

[pateco]

Dry ice?

Yes this will hold dry Ice.
I have also heard that adding some dry ice to bagged cubed ice will make it last a whole lot longer. I have not tried this yet since my previous cooler would not handle dry ice.

 

[Brian S]

Is there a problem with dry ice inside the cabin? As it sublimates from solid to gas, does it collect in the cabin and cause death problems? I'm just wondering...

 

[Justin_NSA]

Is there a problem with dry ice inside the cabin? As it sublimates from solid to gas, does it collect in the cabin and cause death problems? I'm just wondering...

I never thought of that. I wrap it in cardboard and place it at the bottom of our onboard fridge. The compressor is out so it is an icebox for now.

 

[Gunni]

It would take A LOT of dry ice to generate enough CO2 to fill your bilge and flood the living quarters. More dry ice than you skin-flint sailors would be willing to pay for!

 

[pateco]

Is there a problem with dry ice inside the cabin? As it sublimates from solid to gas, does it collect in the cabin and cause death problems? I'm just wondering...

Would depend on your ventilation. Ports or hatches open, should not be a problem. I would not use if closed up tight.

 

[woodster]

More dry ice than you skin-flint sailors would be willing to pay for!

i'll have you know i represent that remark

 

[walt]

There really is no iceman conspiracy, and a lot of us grew up boating with block ice coolers for good reason. The ability of ice to keep something cold is hugely dependent on the mass of the ice. Relatively speaking it takes very little heat to warm a mass of ice 1 degree, but it takes A LOT of heat to warm the same mass of ice from frozen to water. The huge heat absorption during this change of phase (solld - liquid) is what makes ice work so well. There is very little value in supercooling ice, much more value in stripping the heat from your food and drink - pre-cool them so they have less heat to contribute.

Putting some numbers to this.. (which I think is all good advice)

The numbers for the energy to change the temperature of water per weight for for the different states are approximately
Ice is 0.5 cal/gram C
Ice to water 80 cal/gram ("heat of fusion")
Water 1 cal/gram C

So lets say you had 1 gram of ice that starts at a typical freezer temp of 5F and look at what energy is involed in this one gram going up to about the warmest you want a cooler at 45F.

First, the temp needs to be converted to C so we start at -15C to 0C as ice then 0C to 7.22C as water

For this 1 gram,
Ice state calories = 0.5 * 15C = 7.5 calories
Ice to water = 80 calories
Water calories = 1 * 7.22 = 7.22 calories

As Gunni said, the majority of the energy absorption happens in the ice to water transition.

I made an ice chest for my trailer sailer that has an easy to use water drain at the bottom plus there is an about 1 inch high platform that the food sits on. Sometimes I put frozen jugs in the cooler but sometimes also bags of ice. If I put in bags of ice, I will drain the water out usually in the morning of each day so I never have "food floating around in a water ice mixture" that we all like so well.

According to the numbers, going from out of the freezer to water, I get the benifit of 87.5 cal/gram (ice temp change plus the transition from ice to water). But I throw out the ice melt so Im throwing away 7.22 cal/gram.

With what Im doing (empty the ice melt each day), Im loosing about 8.25% of the cooling benefit. But I never have food floating around in some funky colored water.

 

[Brian S]

Hey, Walt, thanks for that writeup. I hate numbers, but that was really easy and well explained. Even I understood it!

 

[MattObjects]

With respect to dry ice:
I have a built-in icebox in my galley with access via insulated hatches in the galley counter. There is a removable divider in the bottom of the ice box and a shelf halfway up one side of it. This past summer, we put one brick-sized block of dry ice, wrapped in a paper bag, on that shelf, not touching any food or other ice. We put two blocks of regular ice below that on the bottom of the ice box, and then used the remaining space for cubed ice, 10 days worth of food and drink, AND a 5 quart pail of ice cream. A day and a half later, after sailing through the first leg of the trip in 85F+ heat, we anchored up near friends for a potluck on a beach. We had hoped the dry ice would keep the ice cream cold enough to serve during the potluck and figured that for a bunch of sweating sunburned sailors, even soft/melting ice cream would be a treat. To my surprise, the ice cream was frozen so solid we had to set it near the bonfire to soften it up enough to scoop. That dry ice is no joke!

With respect to soft-sided coolers:
Last year, I decided to buy a a soft-sided cooler to put at the base of my steering pedestal so I wouldn't need to leave the helm to get a drink from the galley ice box while underway. I read everything I could find on the various options and my choice ultimately came down to Polar Bear vs. AO Cooler (I excluded the Yeti as outside my budget). Unable to find a meaningful distinction between the two, I went with an AO Cooler because it was marginally cheaper at the time. It has served my purpose perfectly since then. The buckle straps that hold down the sides provide handy loops to lash the cooler to the pedestal so it doesn't slide around when heeled over, and if ice and drinks are loaded into the cooler, there will still be some (albeit less) ice and cold drinks 2 days later, even with the cooler sitting in full sun in the summer heat. It is also perfect for (literally) tossing in the dinghy and it is super easy to clean. The zipper is nylon so corrosion is not a concern. I highly recommend that brand but suspect the Polar Bear coolers are equally good.