The Glenn Henderson Impact

Ed Schenck · Jan 7, 2006

Hull design.

I think the shape of the hull is the Henderson signature. When we had several Hunters at the shows two Januarys ago it was easy to compare. That year some were Henderson and some were not. This new shape supposedly leads to better speed. And it was to reduce some of the pounding in heavier seas, something your 37.5 and my 37C don't worry about.I have also taken the plant tour and heard the "new design" pitch. I don't think Glenn, as a true marine architect, gets too involved in other aspects. Other than final approval of course.

Les Blackwell · Jan 7, 2006

This is a biased report

Gary, it is me, Les, from Bellingham still with a 1999 Hunter 380 and while I'm reporting in, understand it is a very biased report as I'm still extrememly happy with my 380. For those who are eavesdropping on this conversation, I have had eight other boats besides this H380--Cal 20, Pearson 27, Ranger 29 and 32 (the 32 was a racing boat), Sceptre 36, a Hunter 40, 32 and finally the H 35.5. I have raced and won boat of the year locally, and took second in the Straits of Geogia classic one year. I do know a little about sailboats and particualrly Hunters.Like you Gary, I wouldn't exchange my H380 for the latest 38--in fact, I wouldn't exchange it for any of the new Hunters. I've already had a bigger boat and I don't want to go that route--it is out of my confort level. But the new Hunters don't look as good (important for me) and I think they have dummied down some of their good points.Here is what I have noted; some differences that I am concerned about that make my present boat the better of the lot.... On deck, my hatches are all recessed, no stumbling on them when going forward. New hatches are well designed (Lewmar?) but not recessed. But I do give them points for the shades that are down below. Nice improvement. And there are less of them which means less light below. Anchor well is smaller, tho still deep.The cockpit. I agree with you I dislike the fake teak--I like my fibreglass thank you. Also the design of the cockpit has gone back to the straight sides like you have. I really liked the rounder version that I have and I like the back support that I have. Hunter has gone back to the straight sides. The idea of putting the jib winches back at the stern probably is good for single handing but I do well with them up on the cabin top with the other main winches. I still think both boats have under sized winches, they are not for women to use. When will companies think about women sailors?I really like my fibreglass arch but I could live with the stainless arch. But I want an arch. Only way to fly with the traveler. And I don't think the new sugar scoop stern is a good looking or as useful but I'm not sure why I have come to this conclusion. I know I don't like the way they have set up the propane locker. My two propane lockers are much better designed for my use and I like them outboard of the living space. I think Glenn was trying to reduce weight at both ends in his designs with the smaller anchor well and moving the propane forward. Just my thooughts on this point.The new steering station is not as nice as mine. I have a place for my coffee, binocs, my charts, as well as all my electronics. The new station is taller/thinner with the radar screen higher up. Lynn (my wife, 5'2") can't see over it. Not good.Down below we have major disagreements with the newer H38s. Navigation locker faces forward--why. It wastes the bulkhead where you sit. I've got a ton of electronics there--pity they changed it. the aft cabin is a major problem for us. Single entrance so that my wife feels trapped. We like having two entrences, one through the head and one through the galley. Yes, I know they put a big hatch for an emergency exit but I don't care for it. And remember, at my age I have to use the head alot--I don't like having to go through the galley and around to the head. We lost one hanging locker and the linen locker. And it looks like the new ones have much less stroage then we have now. I don't know where it went. Anyway, my wife does not like the aft cabin and when the Captain is unhappy, everyone is unhappy!Engine access is also less in a way. Now you have to remove the engine hatch. On mine, you just raise it up with the hydrolic pumps. Also I think the new companionway steps look cheap and they are not curved like mine. I really like my companionway steps. Big dissapointment here.I really don't know about the galley. It seems well designed but the refrig and feezer are smaller than mine. There is more galley counter space. Always a good thing. But dish storage is not as good--it is built in and if you want to add something you'll have to find someplace else to store it. Nifty idea on dish drying though. Where to put pots and pans? I'll have to go back and look again for this feature. I would like it if the sink was further toward the center line but now I'm being picky.The main solon is pretty much the same except our table is larger and can expand. We don't use it for a bed so I can't comment on the use of it for that purpose. But there appears to be less storage up and behind the cushions. We put a ton of stuff there--again I think Glenn probably was trying to keep the weight low to make the boat faster. But I'm not racing anymore.I have a roller furling main and jib and you've heard me say many times I wouldn't go back to any other way for sail control. I'm 72 now and still sailing--still sailing (see attached picture). I like the rig. I think you will see more and more boats with roller furling gear.I suspect the Glenn Henderson boats are as well made as ours but I also think they are made cheaper. One Dorade vent! Why, it takes two to work properly. The new boats also don't have the solar panel that mine has. As a researcher (retired) it could be that I have closed my mind to new ideas and concepts. But I just don't think the new Hunters are as good as the ones we bought in the nineties. Benatau and Catalina are doing some nice designs--it will remain to be seen if Hunter can still be considered the innovators in boat design.Just my thoughts, Gary. And no, I don't plan to trade up. Do you think they will let me back in the boat show now? My best to you -- and to the rest of you and yours.Les

Les Blackwell · Jan 7, 2006

Oops, forgot the picture.

This is me sailing!!!!

Larry Long · Jan 7, 2006

Another view

I have had 3 Hunter boats. 280, 380, and now a Henderson design 33. Additionally, I have had a Cal 27 and a Watkins 36, plus a stink-potter or two.Les Blackwell's boat sounds a lot like the one we had except that we didn't have in-mast furling main and I hated the effort required to raise sail. In general, we really liked the boat and especially the fiberglass arch. We lived aboard for about one year. Things we didn't like were that the seats in the saloon were not a uniform width and were generally too narrow for real comfort. We lowered the table and used that area as a sort of lounge where we could stretch out and relax. The lids for access to the propane bottles were very difficult to get back on. My opinion is that it should have been designed to require NO tools. Now that we have moved from Florida to an inland lake we have a 2005 Hunter 33. We were concerned that we would miss the size of the 380 but that has not been a problem. Most of the room lost in the 33 compared to the 380 is in the aft cabin (see the attached picture for a scale comparison.) What has improved in new Hunters between 1999 and 2005? Here are a few observations:I'm not a racer, but I believe the Henderson hulls are faster than the older ones.The new designs have more interior volume for the length of boat.The new modular interior construction method has resulted in far superior installation of electrical and plumbing items. e.g. the H33 has a 2" PVC conduit to get wiring runs fore and aft. The older boats has a maze of spagetti wiring that went everywhere. The H33 came from the factory with all of the wire runs for EVERY possible option. Wires are already in place for autopilot, RAM mike, wind machine, DVD/TV, extra house batteries; even though I didn't order those options from Hunter.I have a lazarette large enough to store my 10 foot inflatable dinghy. Try that with the 380.I prefer the front opening refrigerator to the top loaders.Here are some items that I liked better on the older boats:I prefer the fiberglass arch by a large margin.As mentioned by Les, the 380 companionway steps are a work of art. I really envy those steps with the graceful curves.I preferred the overhead storage of dishes.I like the longer swim platform of the older boats, but I can understand that it was probably an ineffecient use of boat length. When you factor in the 2 extra lazarettes you got with that longer swim platform maybe it is a worthwhile use of the length.I agree that the new designs are a bit sterile. The devices provided on the new Hunters for use as jib cleats are, in my opinion, less than worthless. I immediately added cam cleats to my boat.Whoever selected the cook stove in my H33 has obviously never tried to cook on it. Any pan or skillet larger than 7 inch diameter cannot be centered on the burner because the burners are located too close to the edge of the stove.I prefer real teak and holly sole to the dull plastic crap I have.I have the aft mounted winches, but they haven't been used since the first week I had the boat. Cabintop is best for me, even single-handing.Overall, I believe the Henderson design is a big improvement. I just wish Hunter had kept more of the good things from the older design in the new boats. Hunter has my name and phone number but they obviously have chosen not to hear my input on their success/failure at providing the boats people want. I believe too many decisions are being made be non-sailors.

Paul · Jan 7, 2006

A couple thoughts

I'll start by saying that I have a Henderson-designed 356 and really like it. And I'll close by saying it's interesting that virtually all of the comments pro and con concern ancillary issues from the shape of the steering pedestal to the location of the refrigerator door, with nary a word about sailing and handling qualities. It shows we buy boats for a lot of different reasons.

Doug · Jan 7, 2006

Sails flat

I own a 04 Hunter-36 the only Hunter I have owed in 25 years of sailing. This is by far the best sailing boat I have ever sailed. It is not fast in light air but in 15 Knots it can keep up with bigger boats. I have found rolling up the main sail keeps the boat fast and flat. The arch is the next best since sliced bread. Most of main triming is with the traveller out hauls, nice and easy. As far as the rest of the boat I bought it to sail and live on not to work on. I have hardly any wood outside and no fake wood. We found the vertical opening frig and frezer gives you more usable counter space.(like a larger boat)The real big benifit is that I can keep my wife out sailing much much longer with no compaints, fast and flat realy works.

Don s/v Tellico · Jan 7, 2006

Same here Gary...

I always come back from the Annapolis show to my 37.5 and say I didn't see anything I liked better. There are things I would trade up for, specifically more room, but I don't like the looks or layout as much as what I've got. Of course the prices might have something to do with that too.I've had 2 Hunters, and like the Henderson designs now better than the intermediate ones after ours. The 37.5 has a tight cockpit, but I did not like the round cockpit, and like Henderson's more traditional look better. But as far as the interiors, I can't imagine staying on one of the new ones like I do mine - which is almost live-aboard. Just nowhere to stash junk, food, etc. They're great boats, but not made for live/stay aboard like I do.But if you spend much time aboard a new one (friend has a new 41ds) all the improvements they've made REALLY come to light. central thru-hulls, easily accessed, ducted a/c through the cabin roof, etc., etc., ...makes me envious after a while.

Franklin · Jan 7, 2006

My vote is...

for the mid to late 90s. I like the sunken hatches. I like the top door refrig (you don't loose all your cold air when you open it...cold air sinks to the bottom). I love the round cockpit (studies have shown that circles are best for comunication) and best of all...it's not square

. I love the engine access. I love the two doors to the aft cabin (opens up the boat and makes it feel bigger).The two things I would change with my 376 1)remove the sink in the fore cabin and replace with a closet 2) remove the chair in the aft cabin and replace with a bigger closet.yeah...I don't race but will be a live-aboard in a month so the extra storage space is needed.

David11054 · Jan 7, 2006

Back to the hull

Like Ed, I thought Henderson's biggest contribution was faster hull designs.This thread has a lot of good stuff about detailed differences between design implementations, but I'll bet a lot of those items are driven by Hunters understanding of what new boat buyers want, and the cost of manufacturing boats for them. I wonder if Henderson does much more than guide detail designers on how to fit them in.DavidLady Lillie

Don s/v Tellico · Jan 7, 2006

Franklin...

had to laugh. I've been looking at how to change the closet in my forward cabin to incorporate a sink! Like for guests/crew to have somewhere to brush their teeth if the head is occupied.Just the opposite of what u'd do. Guess the grass is always geener, huh?

john meyer · Jan 8, 2006

Jump in

I guess I'll jump in. I just bought one of the Hunter 38's and it's yet to be sailed. I can't compare it to older models as I've been a long time Catalina sailor and wasn't real fond of Hunters. However, a few things changed my mind and converted me to your side. The 38 has a little more of the triditional design (not much but a little bit); the hull design, I believe, was well thought out for speed. I really liked the arch and winches set up so that I could single hand - many boats I looked at had the winches forward of the helm. I liked the central location for all of the thru-hulls. I liked the engine accessibility (compared to three Catalinas that I looked at) and I liked the dual entrance to the aft stateroom. I also found favorable reviews from Sail Mag., Practical Sailor Mag. and another owner whom I conversed with. I could go on, but reading this thread, like many others through the years, confirms that any topic related to boats is similar to religion and politics - many, many opinions. I once asked a forum, 'where's the best place to put a radar scanner, mast or stern pole?'. I thought I'd started WW III. Good sailing to all

Fred Ficarra · Jan 8, 2006

David

I was going to touch on your point. It's been my observation during shows of past years that Hunter designs to the new, inexperienced young married couple. Many designs are calculated to illicit the following response when entering the companion way; "Oh wow Honey! Look at all the room!"

Sound familiar? I just mention this from what I have observed over the years. And the boats are getting wider inside. I think that's why Hunter came up with 'struts'. Nothing below to breakup the width. That's the last thing crew needs at sea. You want stuff closer to the centerline. A wide 'look' also takes away most of the potential storage. Those of you familiar with the mid '80s design Hunters like mine know they are also wide inside. Trust me on this one. When the going gets rolley, that's bad. Also a lot of your stuff placed on locker tops goes flying. Also not good. The lockers on my boat were originally just plastic slider doors and styled with an outward tilt. That prevented much of the interior of the lockers from being used. I ripped it all out and built real lockers. It's all on my web site. This thread isn't about the older Hunters so I'll shut up now. I just had an observation about Hunters design philosophy. And one year not too long ago, Cruising World Magazine interviewed a Hunter exec. Don't recall the name. But he said that Hunter will never be in the position of competing with it's older boats. Not sure they succeeded after reading about you guys mid 90s boats. That could well be the sweet spot.But look at the under-body of my H34. It shares its' form with several hulls of the era. It's very hard to draw faster lines. Wanna race? Sure wish I had Alans keel though.P.S. Sorry about all the errors and typos. Posting during the first cup of coffee does that for me. I think they're fixed.

Franklin · Jan 8, 2006

teeth

"Like for guests/crew to have somewhere to brush their teeth if the head is occupied."I bet I could find a spot for 50 people along the rail to brush their teeth

Jeff Bacon · Jan 8, 2006

Les was eloquent........

..... in stating my opinion as well - on virtualy every point. I have owned a 376, and now a 386.However, in a conversation this week, I told a friend I would probably not buy another Hunter simply because of the new design. This is an asthetics issue, and not a performance issue. I have no doubt that the GH designs are faster, but my boat looks better by far.The new 38's aft cabin has restricted headroom and poor access. To the individual who mentioned putting his inflatable in the lazzarette.... absolutely. But look at what you give up in the aft cabin. With a nod of the head to "each to his own" I like the recnt older models far better, and my move to a larger boat, unfortunately, will not be to a HunterJeff

Ed · Jan 9, 2006

Glens contrubution

AS far as im concerned Glen Henderson is the best thing to come along for hunter in a long time. He has improved quality and performance to all the designs he has worked on. Hunter design group is a team of designers that are trying to achieve goals. They have done a good job at presenting a referesing look and a better performing boat. Not all things are perfect but then i dont know a boat that is. My favorite is always the one i want next. Glen personally has a load of experience with great skills and has an impressive track record with his designs.I like what he has done and hope he will be there for a while. Most of us forget that our wives usually make the buy dont buy decision on a cruising boat and alot of the designers efforts are moved toward selling the boat to the one who makes the decision. yes its true even if most of us wont admit it. Length and beam measurements are only a small part of the picture. the designs reflect much change in shape and in performance that has been needed for a while.

texastom · Jan 9, 2006

I agree with others on the late 90's boats

This is my first Hunter but I have to say I really enjoy it. Mine is a 1996 37.5 and I have to agree, I like it better than the new 38's. I even like it better than the new Catalina 35 which is a beautiful boat. I am continuely amazed at the sailing ability of my boat. Two weekends ago we were out in 20+ wind with 10 people on board. We had a double reef in the main and about half the head sail out and were still making 6-6.5 knts with a 12 degree heel. I looked around the bay and saw other boats with a lot more sail up and heeling significantly. I had the autohelm on most of the time and wondered what these other boats were doing.Franklin, I agree with you on the top loading refrig. I put my beer in the bottom and it stays nice and cold. Admiral complains a little when she has to dive in to retrieve a cold one but I don't like warm beer. ;DToms/v At Last

Doug · Jan 9, 2006

Texas Tom Why so slow?

In my 04 H-36 with my wife as a passenger I easily sail at 7.5 Knots. This can be reached in 15 knots. I find I can roll the furling main up to equal a double reef and have 10° of heel.That is what Glen did.

Fred Ficarra · Jan 9, 2006

I'll 'Call' and raise you all!

On our H34,an extra 4.5 knots. That makes 12 knots on a broad reach. No main either. And the jib showing was about the size of our flag. And no heel. It might have been a little breezy.

Your bet.

Doug · Jan 9, 2006

Fold

Been there done that, not again.

The Glenn Henderson Impact

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