The dreaded rusting chainplates.

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
My boat showed faint signs of rust, heaviest on the deck and a faint rust stain on the hull in the vicinity of the forward port lower shroud.

Last year I replaced it. The problem is of course not the chainplates at all but the backing plates installed at Halmatic inside the hatframes when the hull was laid up. Halmatic made the mistake of making these backing plates out of mild steel.

I was confused about how the hatframe and steel were built, I imagined some steel hatframe shaped thing glassed into the hull. Thank goodness it is much simpler than that and quite easy to replace. In performing this repair I believe I also discovered how the water gets into the backing plate.

The hat frame are all fiberglass, hollow extending from the deck to a foot or so in length depending on which one. This hatframes are glassed into the hull with several layers extending well away from the hatframe, they distribute the rigging loads well and have been used in other boats.

The SS chainplates are merely bolted through the hatframes and into the simple backing plates inside, the real culprits.

It took longer to remove the ceiling in the veeberth and replace it than it did to make the repair. Some will be harder to get to but you only need access to one side and the inboard face(chainplate side)Here's how it went:

A few starter holes with a twist bit made a slot large enough to fit a medium cut sawzall blade into. Cutting a slot in the side, slowly enlarging it, I could see the rusted backing plate. The slot in the side of the hatframe was less than an inch wide, keep it as small as possible. Leave the flat side(chain plate side) alone so as not to change much. With a screw driver I pried the old backing plate out, took it to a local metal shop and had it copied and threaded out of SS. It can be rough, I think it cost 20.00.

Back in it went, chainplate bolted to it, surrounding glass ground down and a few layers of glass tape and epoxy to build it to it's original thickness. I used an adhesive to mount the backing plate which enabled me to remove the chain plate when it was set. Some glass went back over the inboard face of the hatframe as well.


When the frame was open, with a mirror and flashlight, I could see that unlike the rest of the hull to deck joint, this area inside is of course not glass together. They couldn't do that because the deck went over the hatframes and closed them up. Any water finding it's way through a screw hole from the toe rail inside or near the hatframe can find it's way in. There it pools in the bottom of the hatframe. Weep holes may carry it away but as they begin to rust, a sodden bed of rust soaks up the water to really let it do it work. Weep holes should be larger than most, even 3/8" to allow drainage even with rust residue in the bottom.

I have one showing alittle rust at the cove stripe on a mizzen shroud. All in all a fairly easy repair, these are easy as access is easy.

I had JPEGs of this repair and would gladly send them to anyone intersted.
 

David

.
Jun 17, 2004
115
Macgregor 26x Morecambe
chainplate repair

Tom,

Thanks for a great article! I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking about it and wondering what mine look like behind the glass.
 

Whit

.
Sep 13, 2004
93
Hunter 30_88-94 New Orleans LA
Chain Plates

I also had rust stains at the chain plates. According to the original owner, Alden recommended bolting directly through the hull, backing plate and chain plate for a stronger fastening. This did nothing for the weeping rust stain. I followed a procedure similar to Tom's. I removed all the backing plates over a weekend. Fortunately, I had the V-berth and head apart, which made access easy. The most difficult area was in the cupboards in main cabin. The original repair included filling the void in the frame, which meant cutting out the backing plate a bit differently than Tom’s procedure, but all in all not to difficult. I changed all the backing plates at the same time as they will all have the same problem eventually. [/img]
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
That was poor advice the previous owner got, hard to believe

the folks at Alden who are aware of the mild steel backing plates, would offer that solution. Rust is so pervaisive, it weeps through everything, your solution is the best one. What I don't think Alden knows(and only those of us who cut into these things will) is that water can and will get into these hatframes and not through the chain plate covers.

You did it quickly too! How did you end up cutting them out Whit? What did the previous owner fill the hatframes with? Did you get any photos?

The only small problem I had was with lining up the threads in the new backing plates. I don't think the machinest took the time to carefully line up the new backing plates and the existing chain plate bore and threads. I'll be more careful explaining this in the future.
 

Whit

.
Sep 13, 2004
93
Hunter 30_88-94 New Orleans LA
The mizzen chain plates seemed the most accessable so I started there. Using my trusty sawzall, I cut off what remained of the original bolts. With the chain plate out of the way, I proceeded with your method of slicing along one edge using an air wheel. I opened one side until I could pry out the remains of the backing plate. The main chain plates presented a bit of problem as they are not as accessable. The void in the hatframe had also been filled with resin from an early repair. I had already taken the cabinetry out of the head for replacement so that was easy. The V-berth was not to difficult after removing the teak slats beside the berths,( I had already removed the overhead while repairing the deck). The forward chain plates are partually behind the forward bulkhead so was forced to rely on the air wheel. I did not remove the chain plate, just cut the bolts and opened up the forward side of the hat frame to get out the backing plate. The resin that had been forced into the void did not bond with the hull and I was able to chip it away using an old chisel & a drill. I became intimate with the hanging locker. After removing some of the siding, I was able to climb in and get at that one. The two in the cupboards are the most difficult as they are awkward to work on. Once again I had to remove the woodwork on the side of the hull. Removing the wood work is not difficult and can be re-installed. I will be picking up the stock for the new backing plates on Friday. As you mentioned, aligning the backing plates with the chain plates may prove a challange. I'll keep you posted.
 

Whit

.
Sep 13, 2004
93
Hunter 30_88-94 New Orleans LA
An easier way?

I was looking at the hat frames with the backing plates removed & I was wondering if it might have been easier to have just cut away the entire area that contained the backing plate. Then make spacers to hold the backing plate in the correct position & glass spacers and backing plate in. Basicaly rebuilding that portion of the hat frame. This would make the process much easier. The area where the backing plate originally was could be ground flush with the hull and cleaned up for better adherence & really clean out any of the rust that leaches through the hull. Any thoughts?
 

David

.
Jun 17, 2004
115
Macgregor 26x Morecambe
reading...

I haven't looked at this area yet, but I hope you guys figure it out before I get there! ;)
 

David

.
Jun 17, 2004
115
Macgregor 26x Morecambe
backing plates

I ground out the large blister that I had on the starboard aft quarter only to find a steel backing plate behind it. So now I know what caused the blister, our old friends the mild-steel backing plates.

Here are some images:
http://reno2.com/alden/images/949/Reno/20050604/

I imagine now that I'll start this project on all 8 backing plates. This one had to have work done outside the hull due to the blister, but for the rest I'll take them out from the inside.

What is the concensus on the best approach, through-bolting new chain-plates from the outside, through the hull and into a backing plate inside the hull? What should be backing plate be made of?
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
I don't like Aldens idea of through bolting.

I think the original set up is the way to go. I have yet to hear of the hatframes not being up the the load, anyone else? IF Alden said the hatframes were inadequate, that would be different. If Alden is saying go right through the old mild steel backing plates, then they simply don't have time to deal with us!!!

I have only replaced one and see no need to do any of them that don't show severe signs of rusting. Don't forget, the backing plates are nothing more than the threads that attach the chain plate. The fiberglass hatframe is what anchors the chainplate to the hull.

The 1st photo where you ground out the backing plate looks as though a weep hole was not drilled at the bottom(it even looks wet?) Weepholes seem to work. Remember too(I don't think Alden knows this) the water gets in through the hull to deck joint- it is not glassed(impossible) inside the hatframe. It simply migrates along the hull to deck entering through any bolt hole. When it finds a hatframe, it drops in. Even if you take care of the deck plates, some water can get in.


When you slice the side of one to remove the backing plate, it's still very stout(you'll see), grinding and glasssing the side with tape and epoxy should leave it just as strong as new.

Simple SS should be used for the plates. The tricky part is getting the holes drilled and tapped in the same location AND at the same angle. A good shop can do it with the old as a template.

Even with SS plates, I would still be sure weepholes are there and working.
 
A

Anonymous

If the backing plates are not replaced, they will continue to deteriorate and eventually leach through to the exterior. Tom is correct about the weep holes; they should be unobstructed and enlarged regardless of whether the backing plates are replaced. It might be possible to flush out the cavity where the backing plates are located. All of the backing plates on my boat were severely deteriorated even though the weep holes were working correctly. It is not a difficult or expensive job to replace the backing plates and the peace of mind is priceless.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
You are correct. I don't mean to imply don't replace them,

just that if you have other more pressing challenges(play on words?), these can wait. What amazes me is when the rust really gets cooking, you can't keep it in! It comes through the hull and the deck, it's pervasive.
 

David

.
Jun 17, 2004
115
Macgregor 26x Morecambe
rusting away

Started cutting out the glass around the backing plates. The condition is very bad so I think that this is probably a good step to do now. The biggest reason to do this in my case is to prevent blistering as happened to the starboard mizzen chainplate.
http://reno2.com/alden/images/949/Reno/20050803/