The Cause Of Accidents Like This

[MrBill_FLL]

I lived in Boston a long time ago, but had forgotten about the huge tides... (crazy!)

Aren't charts shown at mean low tide?

So the +3 would be well below the 7.5' draft at high tide... (or even 2 hours after)

but as MS said, a few minutes distraction, is all it takes.

 

[John Nantz]

"Fog"

Bill - there's the "fog" of war, there's the "fog" of newspaper reporting, and there's the "fog" of my trying to figure out where the rock (or reef?) really is.

I lived in Boston a long time ago, but had forgotten about the huge tides... (crazy!)

Aren't charts shown at mean low tide?

So the +3 would be well below the 7.5' draft at high tide... (or even 2 hours after)

but as MS said, a few minutes distraction, is all it takes.

Actually, the "rock" reported in the paper is really an islet, however, the +3 "rock" is very close by. There is a somewhat shoal area (shown in blue) that sticks out somewhat north of the rock that reported in the paper and perhaps this is what they meant.

Maybe someone could help shed more light on this deep subject?

P.S. [edit]: And nobody commented on the state ferry article and video in my previous post? Ya gotta watch that video guys!!! That's a big honker boat with tons of passengers and cars!

 

[TomY]

Just read an article of a 70' with 7' draft that was making 6 knts when it tried sailing over a rock with only 4 ' of water above it. At high tide. Now it's just a $2.4M wreck.

I would hope that would never be me. So what explains things like that ? Inattentive skipper or something else? The article doesn't say.

The CG closed the investigation, but I'll guess you have it right; Operator Inattention, the CG's most prevalent cause of boating accidents(which includes hitting immovable objects-their def. of groundings). Something more may come out but all we know is they left Camden and hit the ledge.

I've hit that ledge too(as Mainesail mentioned). I had a chart in my lap and was eyeball navigating across this familiar stretch of water.

In common with ARCHANGELS grounding, it was high tide in which case, the only rocks visible are East Goose Rocks on this screen shot of my ipad. The ledge in question(me and Archangel hit), is 3-4 feet below at High Tide.

Don't think this is a tricky or narrow passage. I've laid a course/distance line(2 circles and line between) across the safe opening between Lasell Island and the ledge in question, that covers at HW. The safe area between is 1500 feet wide. It's a very well traveled path between two popular harbors and often I pass schooners under sail, on my way through. I don't hesitate a bit to go through there today(I'll never hit THAT rock, again).

I've also laid a route line in from the West, about on the course I hit that ledge(as I recall, it was 14 years ago). I believe ARCHANGEL was on a similar course. That course line ends on the ledge ARCHANGEL(and I) went up on.

At low tide, the ledge is a clearly visible long rocky ledge 5 feet above water surrounded by breaking water. You simply stay in the 1500 foot wide corridor between the ledge and Lasell Island, and sail through on a safe east-west course.

In my case, I will guess my mind framed my safe opening between Goose Rocks and Lasell Island. I was complacent and navigating lazily. We have current in the bay, but it doesn't run that hard(1+kt at mid tide). It's a factor but I saw the rocks I wanted to see, I think. After that accident, I bought a Chart Plotter and find it invaluable.

There is a good chance there was a lot of distraction onboard ARCHANGEL with just a captain and cook aboard servicing guests. That happens.

 

[Les]

Re: "Fog"

John, you're one of my favorite people and you know that. And Washington State Ferries (the biggest fleet in the world....and getting to be the oldest boats in the fleet) are also my favorites. I am biased to be sure. I have been aboard and in the wheelhouse of the "Evergreen State" and the old "Elwa." I have watched the crews as they have traveled though the islands and really don't understand why they have any problems.

When my wife and I were aboard, they always had three crew members in command. They have two radars (at both ends) that I would die to have on my boat except they would probably sink my H27. It is a radar, GPS, AIS, chart plotter and I few other things I really don't understand. The only navigation aid they don't have is a depth sounder. My captain friends both said they would like to have. But cost cutting is the name of the game with the fleet.

I have steered the "Elwa", not a wheel but a joy stick, but only on a straight course from Orcus to Lopez (islands). And no, I didn't get to dock it, thank heavens.

Now to answer your comments. I don't know what the boat was doing off course near Eagle Harbor--possibly looking for other boats that might be in the way. They would know where everyone was and might have been moving out of the way of someone. I had a Navy ship surprise me once in that area--he came up behind me rather fast in the fog. Asked me politely to move my ars out of the way. So I can't speak to your video.

And we still don't know what the story is on the "Hyak" running over a sailboat near Orcus Landing this summer. I do know it wasn't fog. My suspicion is that the sailboat came out from behind a point of land right in front of the ferry and the wheelhouse crew just didn't see him.

Then there was the "Elwa" who hit a rock near Orcus Island one year. They named the rock after the ferry....you can find it on your charts. This was like the Italian boat on the rocks, a girl friend in the wheel house who wanted to see her house on shore.

Fog is a problem and I have been in the fog much of my life....and in reality as well. It changes your perspective and perhaps your thinking. By the way when I use my iPad and NavX when on board I get a pretty good picture of how we're doing. I think I could steer using it as my navigational plan.

I wish you well my friend. Stay out of the fog.

 

[dscribner]

Having a shoal keel has many benefits. I remember pulling into Hermit Island and seeing shells, rocks and a clearly readable Kit-Kat wrapper passing under my bow . . . just before I screamed and had the Admiral head towards the channel, yet I digress. Even with only 6 years of sailing my home state, Maine, I agree with MS wholly. The rocks and reefs seem to come from nowhere. Often you must round the can, 1 mile or more off the point to avoid the 3' mark. I COULD sail there if I wanted, but why? I'm out there to sail anyway, so why cut the mark short? That said, with our tides, currents and southerlies, I can see how a bloke with a deep keel can get into trouble in no time. My first unction is to say "IDIOT!" but we need to sail a nautical mile at his helm before we can cast blame. Bad things happen. Good people, bad people, idiots and Einsteins, Murphy shows now partiality.

Don

Casco Bay Sailah.

 

[Lost Parent]

Sorry Les
BC ferries sre the largest in North America and second largest in the world

 

[higgs]

Let he who has never made a navigation error cast then first stone. Isn't that in the bible?

 

[gettinthere]

Guys this is Maine the home of 10' 20'+ foot tides, very strong currents and rocks and ledges spattered about right in the middle of a good straight shot somewhere. they are often thrown out by mother nature (glaciers) like popcorn on the floor of a Ground Round.......

In Maine even a moment of inattention can cause such a mishap to occur. The boat had reportedly just left Camden on a charter. Charter guests can be very demanding especially the types who can afford to charter a boat such as Archangle.. On an outgoing tide the set and drift could have easily put them on that ledge even if the captain took his eyes off the course for a few moments. On top of all that it was reported that the lobster pots were thick and heavy through that area and they had been dodging them.

Having sailed through this passage a number of times I can tell you that it can be a very deceiving approach compared to what you actually take to cut through there. Hard to explain and more one of those "you'd need to be there to understand" situations.

While I have never had an issue passing through there it is simply one of the MANY obstacles that get hit in Maine each year. Even a 70 footer is not going to move solid Maine granite and something has to give, usually the boat. This is not the first paid captain to hit ledge in Maine and certainly will not be the last. We have had one schooner captain go up on ledges twice, the Portland fire boat and many, many others.. Not a week goes by in the summer when I don't hear of or see a boat on a ledge in Maine. In one summer I had three of my customers mortgage a ledge in Maine. In every situation current, lobster pots and a few moments of inattention all culminated in the accident. In two of them the electronic charts were off and paper was being used. When you are talking feet, not meters, to miss a ledge a plotter can certainly have an advantage over paper.. I have to suspect Archangle was simply a culmination of events that led to this. One thing I see over and over is "I've been through there a hundred times and never hit.". Often a comfort level with an area builds complacency.. Perhaps there was a little of that involved here...

Even Tom, a member here and a VERY, VERY experienced cruiser has hit that ledge. It is a VERY popular ledge to hit here in Maine. It does not help that this ledge is right smack dab in a perfectly good lay line across PenBay...
...

And you want me to come up there next summer??????
I'm sure you'll get me a good price on all the repairs from your friends who are eagerly awaiting my 'arrival'!!
Eeeeek!

 

[Brian D]

Let he who has never made a navigation error cast then first stone. Isn't that in the bible?

So in this case, this was an epic error and fitting of an epic movie. LOL! I do often wonder why some people equate to "where there is water I can go" to "if I have checks, there is money in the bank".

Not trying to armchair navigate or criticize, but when I looked at the charts, my first gut instinct is to stay the course in the middle-to-near-starborad side of the approved lane. I do that in my easy to navigate channel and unknown channels that I visit.

I have a 4ft draft and when I see 8ft reported I get nervous. One thing I have not figured out is the depth reporting of my depth meter. Is it from the sensor in the hull to the floor of the seabed, or calibrated from the bottom of the keel to the floor of the seabed? One day I will figure that out.

 

[GeorgiaBII]

I have a 4ft draft and when I see 8ft reported I get nervous. One thing I have not figured out is the depth reporting of my depth meter. Is it from the sensor in the hull to the floor of the seabed, or calibrated from the bottom of the keel to the floor of the seabed? One day I will figure that out.

Couldn't you simply measure the depth of the water with a rope and rock and compare it to the meter reading?

 

[Captn TJ]

To those of you who said a moment of in attention may have caused this - I assume you mean not watching the chart plotter. I assume the Rock 4' under the water was invisible from the boat. I am in Great Lakes so don't contend with current and tide. Kind of scaring me.

On the Great Lakes we don't have tides however we do have many treacherous area. One only has to stop by Tobermory and see all of the boats pulled because of keel, hull or prop shaft damage do to rocks in unmarked areas. And if the rocks don't get you maybe the deadheads will!

 

[Brian D]

Couldn't you simply measure the depth of the water with a rope and rock and compare it to the meter reading?

Yeah, but it is more fun to watch people argue over what method to use and what their systems do. LOL

 

[Stu Jackson]

Brian opened the door!

No arguments, just options

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1070095&highlight=depth sounder

 

[Brian D]

Stu, once I walked my boat to the boat ramp until it stopped. Read the depth and then walked it back again. But dang if I forgot what the reading was. LOL! Now to find a soft bank to run aground on. LOL!

OK... sorry I went off topic.