My "new" 1978 Catalina 30 has the Catalina smile (separation crack on the keel), and I'm wondering how to do a spring fix-up. I've heard that I should chisel out some of the area and patch it up with... some kind of epoxy? And what about the keel bolts? should I loosen them all, and retighten? What torque? Finally, should I re-torque when she's on the hard, or back in the water? Thanks for any help!
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Smile again
Roger Not a great big deal (yeah, easy for me to say). Have you tried a forum archive search on this subject? It comes up every spring, and most likely has been answered more than it's been asked. If not, try the C30, C34 and C36 Association websites. The answers are out there. Stu
Roger Not a great big deal (yeah, easy for me to say). Have you tried a forum archive search on this subject? It comes up every spring, and most likely has been answered more than it's been asked. If not, try the C30, C34 and C36 Association websites. The answers are out there. Stu
Smile, be happy
Hi Roger - Many Catalinas exhibit a cap at the leading of of the keel where it attaches to the hull. On my C36, I simply ground out the area, filled with Evercoat, faired and painted with the rest of the bottom. When I hauled the boat two years later there was no sign of the "smile". In any case, I fixed the original cracking area to make me feel better, although I don't believe it's structural. No need to mess around with the keel bolts (other than inspection) unless there's evidence they are loose. Best, Trevor
Hi Roger - Many Catalinas exhibit a cap at the leading of of the keel where it attaches to the hull. On my C36, I simply ground out the area, filled with Evercoat, faired and painted with the rest of the bottom. When I hauled the boat two years later there was no sign of the "smile". In any case, I fixed the original cracking area to make me feel better, although I don't believe it's structural. No need to mess around with the keel bolts (other than inspection) unless there's evidence they are loose. Best, Trevor
The catalina Smile
Roger: As Trevor has indicated, the smile is not a big deal and most of the older Catalina have them. You just grind them out and fill them and in a couple of years you'll end up doing it again. I don't really understand the physics as to why it happens but I've been told it has to do with the design placement of the keel bolts, which causes some kind of stress on that part of the keel. How it happen to a solid piece of metal is beyond me but happen it does.
Roger: As Trevor has indicated, the smile is not a big deal and most of the older Catalina have them. You just grind them out and fill them and in a couple of years you'll end up doing it again. I don't really understand the physics as to why it happens but I've been told it has to do with the design placement of the keel bolts, which causes some kind of stress on that part of the keel. How it happen to a solid piece of metal is beyond me but happen it does.
ON a C27, it happens because
... the keel bottom has about a 10 degree angle to it. When the boat is stored, the block under the keel needs the same angle to distribute the weight. Otherwise, the boat is resting on the lower trailing edge of the keel, placing tremendous strain on the upper leading edge where it attaches to the hull. That pulls it away a bit, thus the smile. Once the boat is blocked properly, keel bolt torque should be checked, and then the fixes described work nicely. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
... the keel bottom has about a 10 degree angle to it. When the boat is stored, the block under the keel needs the same angle to distribute the weight. Otherwise, the boat is resting on the lower trailing edge of the keel, placing tremendous strain on the upper leading edge where it attaches to the hull. That pulls it away a bit, thus the smile. Once the boat is blocked properly, keel bolt torque should be checked, and then the fixes described work nicely. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
The catalina Smile
Tom: That makes sense but out here in Ca the boats are in the water 12 months a year and they still get the smile. As I said, I have no idea what causes the problem.
Tom: That makes sense but out here in Ca the boats are in the water 12 months a year and they still get the smile. As I said, I have no idea what causes the problem.
Hummmm
Don: Well, I have to say that I'm now baffled too. That was the explanation I'd always heard around here (midwest), and it made sense. I guess I COULD hypothesize that your CA boats still come out and onto a stand for short periods of time to do bottom work. But I think that's pushing the theory, so I think I'll fall back on your explanation ... I don't know either! Tom
Don: Well, I have to say that I'm now baffled too. That was the explanation I'd always heard around here (midwest), and it made sense. I guess I COULD hypothesize that your CA boats still come out and onto a stand for short periods of time to do bottom work. But I think that's pushing the theory, so I think I'll fall back on your explanation ... I don't know either! Tom
Extreme Makeover for Catalina Smile
I have some information from Catalina that I was given a couple years ago. I will try to post it here. If I cannot give me your email address and I will email it to you. It is there recommended fix.
I have some information from Catalina that I was given a couple years ago. I will try to post it here. If I cannot give me your email address and I will email it to you. It is there recommended fix.
info from Catalina Yachts
I wrote to Catalina to ask about how to repair the smile... they promptly provided a diagram and instructions: (1) remove loose material from crack; (2) enlarge crack slightly by opening to a 'V'(loosen keel bolts??); (3) insert Marine-Tex or similar compound in joint; (4) tighten keel bolts to 105 ft-lbs torque; (5) sand joint fair; (6) glass over (optional). Seems straightforward... Any further comments from anyone?
I wrote to Catalina to ask about how to repair the smile... they promptly provided a diagram and instructions: (1) remove loose material from crack; (2) enlarge crack slightly by opening to a 'V'(loosen keel bolts??); (3) insert Marine-Tex or similar compound in joint; (4) tighten keel bolts to 105 ft-lbs torque; (5) sand joint fair; (6) glass over (optional). Seems straightforward... Any further comments from anyone?
Catalina Smile Cause
The cause of the 'smile' is from the use of wood in the keel sump. Prior to 1988, Catalina used wood as filler in the keel sump, then glassed over top. The keel bolts pass through this wood layer and over time, water in the bilge seem down and allows the wood to deteriorate and compress, allowing the keel to drop slightly. The short term fix is to grind out the crack and refill whenever it reappears. The permanent fix is to remove the wood in the sump entirely....big job. Depening upon how severe your situation is, there is a fix issued from Catalina Yachts. See Link.
The cause of the 'smile' is from the use of wood in the keel sump. Prior to 1988, Catalina used wood as filler in the keel sump, then glassed over top. The keel bolts pass through this wood layer and over time, water in the bilge seem down and allows the wood to deteriorate and compress, allowing the keel to drop slightly. The short term fix is to grind out the crack and refill whenever it reappears. The permanent fix is to remove the wood in the sump entirely....big job. Depening upon how severe your situation is, there is a fix issued from Catalina Yachts. See Link.
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