The Boatel Project

Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Hello everyone and thanks for taking the time to read this post. It has little to do with boat performance and more to do with livability and space. My wife and I have a rental property and are avid sailors. Though we don't own our "retirement boat" yet... we are working toward that in the near future. In the meantime, like a lot of sailors who choose to cruise in their retirement, we need to create more "passive" income. That being said, we have been watching the Air B and B boat rentals - and we are intrigued, to the point of considering purchasing a dock or two locally (Louisville, KY) and "floating" a couple of cleaned up cruisers in and offering short term / overnight rentals. This, of course, isn't an original idea, it's happening in cities everywhere though the average price per night is only about $75 - $150 a night. That being said, we feel if we can keep our expenses down and the model simple we can make a little extra cash. If we buy a slip for say $4000 or less and average five rentals a month the return on investment is relatively short.

So here is the question for the group. I have obsessed about sailboats for thirty plus years, I several sailing dinghies, a Hobie 16 and a McGregor V222 (Don't judge it was free see "And so it begins" where I document Sea Gypsies two-year restoration - lol we spent way too much on her but, I digress). The question is - what boat to use for our project? We will remove the engine (if it's shot) and re-paint and freshen up the interiors making it more "rental friendly." We will keep a Sun Fish or Cat at the marina for renters to use and market two millennials or old adventure dogs like Molly and me. The idea grew out of a number of visits to marinas where I've seen dozens or hundreds of abandoned sailboats. I've had marina owners practically beg me to take these fiberglass anchors away... So far I've looked at a Grampion, Newport 30, Pearsons, etch and a homebuilt wooden boat that this forum generally agreed was a bad idea for obvious reasons. The criteria are space, livability and low maintenance cost (though no engine or sails would greatly reduce the need for maintenance). In my strange way, I feel like we could be doing a little good in our own way, saving a few classics from the scrap yard and maybe fueling our own dreams down the road.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I think most marinas (and marina neighbors) will take a dim view to this type of enterprise. I'd hate it next to me. Many marinas are or have adopted rules that a boat (once a year) must move for 1+ miles under its own power and come back to be called a 'boat'.

But to your question, an 80s production boat with a solid glass hull and a focus on interior room seem to be likely. Decide on how important a shower on board it, and how solid the boats plumbing is. Lots of old boats drained to the bilge. Bad news. Catalina 30 or 34? Prices on the 30 in particular are getting low, and might make a nice weekender for 2 with the right mods.
 
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Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
We are looking at marinas with more liberal rules. But, you make a good point and perhaps removing the motor might not be the best plan. Who knows we may want to take one cruising one day.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The upfront costs may be more than you expect. People will treat the property as they see it, a well maintained attractive property will generate more income and people will treat it better, be more careful, be cleaner etc. A run down boat that does not appear to be well maintained will be treated as a run down boat, who cares if there is another nick or scratch or something falls in the bilge.

So expect to spend a lot of time cleaning and scrubbing. Pay particular attention to cushions. If the covers are worn or faded they will not make a good impression. The foam may be old, broken down and moldy or smelly. Cushions are very expensive to recover.

What about the head and pumping out the holding tank and keeping it from smelling? If the boat doesn't have a working motor, how will it get to the pump out station? Who will take it to the pump out station? And that marine head, it will get plugged and you'll get the call at some ungodly hour.

An 80's production boat like the Catalina 30, Pearson 303 would be good choices. Personally, I think the Pearson 303 is a more attractive boat than a Catalina and more expensive. Catalina 30s can be had for almost nothing and have a large saloon.
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Thanks... this is exactly why I post here. All very good points. We would completely clean, paint and otherwise "rehab" the interior. I agree she needs to be clean and free of mildew, or funky odors...
 

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Assuming you plan to make the boat insailable, there’s a Catalina 30 for sale at our club in SC. The motor is probably fine but all of the running rigging needs replacing. It’s a pretty boat otherwise.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I would look at some of the other listings of people that are doing this already for best practices, but I would think about not letting the renters use any of the boat systems except for sinks. The stove and toilet will be particularly troublesome, and potentially dangerous to unfamiliar users. Maybe a microwave and a coffee maker, and let them use the marina facilities for all of their business.
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Thanks Kermit... I believe most will want a "sailboat experience" so keeping it a "sailboat" will be key. Millennials want to take a picture and say they were there... the picture is what they value most.
 

NYSail

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Jan 6, 2006
3,048
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
I would complain until the cows came home if my slip neighbor did an airbnb type situation. Transients are not considerate let alone many permanent fixtures at the dock... And the mind set for many is if you're on a boat its "party till its 1999" time and we all want to hear your crappy music. I am sure the owners of the marina would get tired of the complaints and put an end to it.....

Just my opinion

Greg
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
I don't disagree with you Greg. But, the fact is it's happening in marinas all over the country. One model has us actually working with the marina owner to rent "unfilled slips." This may be the way to go. The marina is making no money on surplus slips and if they buy in, they would have better control and actually make some cash on those unrented slips. There are a lot of considerations yet unknown...
 
Nov 26, 2012
1,653
Hunter 34 Berkeley
Terrible. This is something I would fight tooth and nail. Can you imagine how much theft and vandalism there could be in a marina like that? Marinas may be doing it to make cash in the short term but in the long run they are putting nails in their coffins. Boating is in decline as are most outdoor activities. I see it in my marina in Berkeley.
 

KD3PC

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Sep 25, 2008
1,069
boatless rainbow Callao, VA
no mention of zoning or insurance...both may be show stoppers. Most "rental" units must meet liveability, safety and emergency egress regs, whether the unit floats or is land based.

Insurance when one deals with the general public can get onerous.

Like the others, I would want to be miles away from this type of activity, as the alcohol weekends at the marina are enough to encourage us to go to the boat on Monday, and return home early friday before the blenders start up.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I should think that local government would eventually catch wind of this and you might end up owning a couple of boats and slips that you can't rent w/o bringing everything up to rental accommodations standards if that would even be possible.
A lot of places are cracking down on these rentals.
 
Mar 29, 2011
169
Beneteau 361 Charlotte,Vt
Another point to think about. Whether the boat leaves the dock or not. When ever you take a fee for boat usage, it becomes a boat for hire and come under the rules as a boat for hire. This included USCG rules and insurance. No insurance company will cover claims is they don't know they are insuring a boat for hire. So you will need a commercial marine policy to cover these boats.
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
All great points and all potential show stoppers... Keep them coming. Or opportunity? Some corporation will figure out how to do it once there is money to be made.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Beside the charter boat trade, there isn't much of any on the water rentals around here. That may be due to the lack of dock space, and what there is dear.

I know you're not doing this but might as well throw the $$ in: Weekly charters run the gamut on prices from say under $1000 for a 30'er to 2-3,000 for a nice 40'er. These would be well equipped boats and available for sailors only with experience.

For the Air B&B person - non sailor, looking for an on the water experience there are a few house boats for rent.

This outfit appears to be doing pretty well. They have expanded to a few houseboats. Total fake, these are just floating barges so the people don't have to know anything about boats and can rent without sinking them or killing themselves. Good safe railing to keep them onboard when they get hammered(liability).

Few boat problems: Full bath and shower, flush toilet etc. Huge holding tank and the outfit runs a pump out boat.



Also growing a bit on the coast of Maine are more typical houseboats. I haven't seen any of these for rent but I've heard people are anxious to try it for rental. This one is used by the owner who lives nearby. It's stays on a mooring and would likely make a great rental. More off the grid though: composting toilet, outdoor shower, solar charged batteries for limited use. Great location though on a beautiful protected cove just a few miles from a ferry terminal to major highways.
Houseboat far gable.jpg
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,993
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Some of these issues might be worked out.
A marina owner would be tempted but may need to set aside a specific part of the marina for said boat air b&b’s. Walking on docks is a risk. Falling off a boat with a drink in hand is a risk.

Our Marina has a no Air B&B policy.

While it may start with a rescue sail boat you might need to provide variety.

Noise ordinances, Zoning, motel transient tax, inspection (at what standards), handicap access? All questions in the new world. No more slapping up a Bates Motel.

While I think you will find folk in your target market, these same folk are requiring government to protect them in their adventures. So while the idea has merit then execution may prove impossible. Or will require a close friend on some council to help with variances for the regulations.
 
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TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
For a sheltered lake you might actually be able to charter this Bruce Devlin designed houseboat to non-sailors with some basic boating experience.

Outboard powered (dual), composting head, solar panels to keep the fridge running, this could be a money maker even with the obvious investment, in the right place.

The owner, an ex-sailor, had this built locally. It has a sort of pram bow but with a cutwater below the pram bow transom so unlike a barge, it goes quite nicely in flat-ish water.

Because the owner is experienced he knows well the limitations of this boat and the weather that can crop up in our coast.
Jeannie Teal bow.jpg

The couple use it as a home away from home here on the coast. It's a true off the grid dwelling (no need of dockage), that can be moved in sheltered water from cove to cove.

It has a serious anchor and windlass, as it should. There is an inside helm as well as another one in the forward cockpit.
Jeannie Teal close.jpg
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,044
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
It's not going to work on a sailboat. You would have to think about a houseboat with real facilities to get that kind of rental fee. What do you base your income projection on? My daughter owns 2 properties that she keeps occupied with AirB&B for at least 5 years now. She is basically filled 80% to 90% of the time. In season, she rarely has an empty night. Her income is modest, but it does exceed the income she gets from long-term rental (and she has done both so she has experience both ways). One of her properties is at a ski mountain resort in Montana and her other property is at a well-known surfing location on the Pacific Ocean near Cabo San Lucas. Her base rate for one bedroom with beautiful facilities is about $75 per night average (higher in Montana). She is in the best locations; her guests come from all over the world, many attracted to Yellowstone N.P. for instance. In Montana, she has a very nice 2-bedroom townhome and often has a long-term rental occupant maintaining the AirB&B property for her when she is away. There are significant fees and regulatory requirements, which are expenses beyond the normal homeownership expenses. She lives in resort communities where transients and guests are the norm, so even the locals and permanent residents are familiar with the business model and even participate in the economy by providing the necessary services that the hosts need. Your experience is likely to be different if the locals are not used to this sort of thing.

We happened to stay in a very nice (very modern renovation) 2 bedroom near-luxury townhouse at an excellent ski resort location for $175 per night. It was a great deal, and that is primarily what AirB&B guests are looking for. I don't see your rental being anywhere close to your target for essentially camping out in Kentucky on a tiny boat with primitive facilities. What would be the attraction? Why would your customers want to be there? I doubt that there is enough local attraction, but I could be wrong about that. Remember, AirB&B gets their fee out of the rental income, too!

The other aspect that customers come for is more social. They like the interaction with a local. My daughter has found that to be one of the prime motivations. They seek the hosts with great reputations and want the feeling that they are staying at home, rather than a rental. You would have to do something to overcome the sense of isolation that guests might find unattractive. What would be their reason for staying on a sailboat if they aren't actually going to sail it. I don't think anybody would be interested in sailing the small boats. Nobody goes on vacation with that in mind. Sunsail actually had a resort on Antigua with the sailing dinghy concept built into the reason for the resort. It failed.
 
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Sep 24, 2018
2,549
O'Day 25 Chicago
There are a lot of people out there that will want to rent it despite lack of amenities because it is a different experience. There was a guy who was renting out his Tesla on ABnB.

The Catalina 30 has standing headroom for someone that's 6'. I could easily live on it
 
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