So it’s my first winter dry storage of my "new to me" 1985 Catalina 30 and, what seems to me, the worst thing has happened? I went to the boat today and found the entire bilge a solid block of ice. It was up to and underneath the floor and as far back as the stuffing box. Any advice, major concerns, cause, besides a leak, and what to do next. Please help put my mind at ease with some helpful advice. How concerned should I be that the stuffing box is entirely cased in ice?
The bilge is a solid block of ice
- Thread starter jaydog5000
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Check your head pipes/hoses first...
before you thaw anything. If any of them was full of water and froze under pressure, they may have burst. If that's the case, you'd probably be better off cleaning it up or at least putting down plastic sheeting to keep the mess out of the bilge - especially if the holding tank to thru-hull hose/pipe is involved. Reminds me of submarines - they clear clogs in the heads with HIGH pressure water. Failing to notice the sign that a clog was being cleared cost the unwary a nasty shower when operating the ball valve on the toilet. *yks Cheers, Bob
before you thaw anything. If any of them was full of water and froze under pressure, they may have burst. If that's the case, you'd probably be better off cleaning it up or at least putting down plastic sheeting to keep the mess out of the bilge - especially if the holding tank to thru-hull hose/pipe is involved. Reminds me of submarines - they clear clogs in the heads with HIGH pressure water. Failing to notice the sign that a clog was being cleared cost the unwary a nasty shower when operating the ball valve on the toilet. *yks Cheers, Bob
Start by
I assume you are in dry storage. If you haven’t done it yet shut off the bilge pump. It’s the freeze thaw cycle that hurts so add some antifreeze to keep what thaws liquid and that will also encourage the melting of the rest of the ice. All the best, Robert Gainer
I assume you are in dry storage. If you haven’t done it yet shut off the bilge pump. It’s the freeze thaw cycle that hurts so add some antifreeze to keep what thaws liquid and that will also encourage the melting of the rest of the ice. All the best, Robert Gainer
Thaw it out...
slowly. If possible, you may try using a low power heater in the cabin. Do not run long extension cords as they may over heat and cause a fire. Make certain that your bilge pump is not connected to prevent damage to the pump. Check the cabin enterance for water leaks, also all hatches. Its hard to trace a water leak, so good luck. I've heard that dyed water may help to locate the leak. Have someone help by staying in the cabin and looking for the dyed water as you pour it around all possible leak sources (stantions, lifelines, cleats, ect. Once dryed out, wipe everthing down with a bleach mixture to kill any mold.
slowly. If possible, you may try using a low power heater in the cabin. Do not run long extension cords as they may over heat and cause a fire. Make certain that your bilge pump is not connected to prevent damage to the pump. Check the cabin enterance for water leaks, also all hatches. Its hard to trace a water leak, so good luck. I've heard that dyed water may help to locate the leak. Have someone help by staying in the cabin and looking for the dyed water as you pour it around all possible leak sources (stantions, lifelines, cleats, ect. Once dryed out, wipe everthing down with a bleach mixture to kill any mold.
Don't worry about it much ...
I'll bet the worst you'll find is a need to replace the bilge pump, but if your batteries are disconnected, you may not even have that damage. Thaw it out and remove the water. Hopefully the freeze didn't push your floor up. The freeze won't crack your fiberglass and the stuffing box can take worse. I've always wondered why they don't put plugs in the bilge someplace where you can open it up for the winter and let water flow out.
I'll bet the worst you'll find is a need to replace the bilge pump, but if your batteries are disconnected, you may not even have that damage. Thaw it out and remove the water. Hopefully the freeze didn't push your floor up. The freeze won't crack your fiberglass and the stuffing box can take worse. I've always wondered why they don't put plugs in the bilge someplace where you can open it up for the winter and let water flow out.
Install a garboard drain plug
When wood was the common boatbuilding material, many boats had drain plugs installed in the low point of the bilge, usually thru the first plank above the keel, aka the garboard strake. When f'glass replaced wood & boats generally were less liable to leakage, I guess the garboard drain was considered unnecessary. When my boat (an O'Day 27) was hauled for the winter, I noticed that after a while there seemed to be an accumulation of water in the bilge & I was concerned that when it froze it could cause damage. So I drilled a hole thru the hull at the low point & glassed in a bronze thru-hull that was modified to take a flush-fitting screwed-in bronze plug. The inside of the thru-hull is also capped when the boat's in the water, but when the boat's on the hard the cap & the plug are unscrewed and the bilge can drain itself.
When wood was the common boatbuilding material, many boats had drain plugs installed in the low point of the bilge, usually thru the first plank above the keel, aka the garboard strake. When f'glass replaced wood & boats generally were less liable to leakage, I guess the garboard drain was considered unnecessary. When my boat (an O'Day 27) was hauled for the winter, I noticed that after a while there seemed to be an accumulation of water in the bilge & I was concerned that when it froze it could cause damage. So I drilled a hole thru the hull at the low point & glassed in a bronze thru-hull that was modified to take a flush-fitting screwed-in bronze plug. The inside of the thru-hull is also capped when the boat's in the water, but when the boat's on the hard the cap & the plug are unscrewed and the bilge can drain itself.
Frozen up
I had this happen to me years ago. Yard REALLY didn't want to see power cords going into anyones boat. Ended up getting a big bag of rock salt and poured it on the ice to break it up. Worked pretty good to break up the ice and take the pressure off the floors and such. Used a shop vac to clean up the blige. Dave
I had this happen to me years ago. Yard REALLY didn't want to see power cords going into anyones boat. Ended up getting a big bag of rock salt and poured it on the ice to break it up. Worked pretty good to break up the ice and take the pressure off the floors and such. Used a shop vac to clean up the blige. Dave
I had the same issue .....
I used hot water from the stove that I started up to melt the ice. The problem was that my winter cover did not entirely cover the boat and water got in from somewhere, it is hard to detect as others have said. My guess is that is your problem too. You have to be careful that more water does not continue to build up and freeze. I had it up to the bottom of the crankcase I think. I had to keep going back every 2 weeks or so to check on the boat and remove ice. The alternative was to cover the boat completely which I could not do. I had a drip less shaft seal(PYI) in my boat and it was ok after the thaw. My bilge pump was ok too after the thaw. All worked out in the spring. If you keep the ice to a low level I think you will be ok. Make plans for a good cover up next winter.
I used hot water from the stove that I started up to melt the ice. The problem was that my winter cover did not entirely cover the boat and water got in from somewhere, it is hard to detect as others have said. My guess is that is your problem too. You have to be careful that more water does not continue to build up and freeze. I had it up to the bottom of the crankcase I think. I had to keep going back every 2 weeks or so to check on the boat and remove ice. The alternative was to cover the boat completely which I could not do. I had a drip less shaft seal(PYI) in my boat and it was ok after the thaw. My bilge pump was ok too after the thaw. All worked out in the spring. If you keep the ice to a low level I think you will be ok. Make plans for a good cover up next winter.
Don, I remember that posting from last year.
I believ that after letting the engine thaw out it was pickled with fluids replaced and it suffered no major damage. I don't recall if they ever posted the source of the water. It goes to show that when you think you are down on your luck just look behind you and you will always find someone worse off.
I believ that after letting the engine thaw out it was pickled with fluids replaced and it suffered no major damage. I don't recall if they ever posted the source of the water. It goes to show that when you think you are down on your luck just look behind you and you will always find someone worse off.
I think you are...
... on the right track taking the suggestions below to slowly defrost the ice using a low power heater or hair dryer. As you know, ice freezes from the top down, so keep an eye out for any cracks that may have been caused by the ice in the areas which bound the ice. Any metal parts that have been covered by the ice/water will require careful inspection and lubrication. Pay particular attention to the hose clamps on your stuffing box. If there was any water that froze inside the gland, take a very hard look at the rubber hose part of the gland, particularly the underside of it which you may need a mirror to inspect. A leak there could be disastrous. Most likely you'll come out of this ok, like the guy in the picture below who had his entire engine frozen in place -- and it ran when he thawed it out. But this experience should suggest the need to (1) find out how the water got into your boat to start with, and (2) visit your boat more frequently over the winter. Good luck.
... on the right track taking the suggestions below to slowly defrost the ice using a low power heater or hair dryer. As you know, ice freezes from the top down, so keep an eye out for any cracks that may have been caused by the ice in the areas which bound the ice. Any metal parts that have been covered by the ice/water will require careful inspection and lubrication. Pay particular attention to the hose clamps on your stuffing box. If there was any water that froze inside the gland, take a very hard look at the rubber hose part of the gland, particularly the underside of it which you may need a mirror to inspect. A leak there could be disastrous. Most likely you'll come out of this ok, like the guy in the picture below who had his entire engine frozen in place -- and it ran when he thawed it out. But this experience should suggest the need to (1) find out how the water got into your boat to start with, and (2) visit your boat more frequently over the winter. Good luck.
Cold & cruel winter….
Well, I don’t know how cold it gets where you are, but water expands when it freezes and in fact will expand even more in extreme cold. You will for sure want to check very carefully for damage! There’s lots of good advice here, here’s a little more for the future. When you do your fall winterizing, buy a couple of extra gallons of plumbing anti-freeze, dry your bilge, pour it in and run your pump so it has it inside too. Any water that does get in the bilge will mix with anti-freeze and at best turn into a slushy mess not putting expansion pressure on your boat. Further, be kind to your rig, pull the mast. The demastings I’ve seen up here have all been on boats that leave the mast on during winter layup. There has been a lot of debate on that subject, but metal contracts in the cold and it seems to me this will at least cause problems around chainplates and such. A benefit; if the mast is off/out it’s much easier to cover the boat keeping melt water out of cracks and crannies. Little leaks top side turn into bigger leaks once ice forms and expands in them. GAWD, I hate winter…. Ferg
Well, I don’t know how cold it gets where you are, but water expands when it freezes and in fact will expand even more in extreme cold. You will for sure want to check very carefully for damage! There’s lots of good advice here, here’s a little more for the future. When you do your fall winterizing, buy a couple of extra gallons of plumbing anti-freeze, dry your bilge, pour it in and run your pump so it has it inside too. Any water that does get in the bilge will mix with anti-freeze and at best turn into a slushy mess not putting expansion pressure on your boat. Further, be kind to your rig, pull the mast. The demastings I’ve seen up here have all been on boats that leave the mast on during winter layup. There has been a lot of debate on that subject, but metal contracts in the cold and it seems to me this will at least cause problems around chainplates and such. A benefit; if the mast is off/out it’s much easier to cover the boat keeping melt water out of cracks and crannies. Little leaks top side turn into bigger leaks once ice forms and expands in them. GAWD, I hate winter…. Ferg
Ice
You probably have not damaged your boat seriously. A friend of mine boaght an Oday 35 - otherwise in good shape, that had been neglected over the winter and water had built over the floor boards by about a foot and then froze solid in the Wisconsin winter. This included the diesel. he got the bought for no more than 5k, thwed it out and everything, ecept the water mark on the cabin's woodwork, was fine. It turned out to be a real nice boat. Your bilge is a lot like an ice cube tray - they don't crack. This is why I like to cover my boat in the winter. Even a blue plastic tarp for $50 will do the job if you build a frame work and ties it down good. I'm using shrink wrap now, but when using the cheap tarp I could get 3 or 4 years out of it before getting a new one. I also try to check my boat prior to the hard freeze as much as possible and, as mentioned, use a shop vac to get any water out. If I just can't seem to stop the water gathering in my bilge, then I put a gallon of anti freeze in there.
You probably have not damaged your boat seriously. A friend of mine boaght an Oday 35 - otherwise in good shape, that had been neglected over the winter and water had built over the floor boards by about a foot and then froze solid in the Wisconsin winter. This included the diesel. he got the bought for no more than 5k, thwed it out and everything, ecept the water mark on the cabin's woodwork, was fine. It turned out to be a real nice boat. Your bilge is a lot like an ice cube tray - they don't crack. This is why I like to cover my boat in the winter. Even a blue plastic tarp for $50 will do the job if you build a frame work and ties it down good. I'm using shrink wrap now, but when using the cheap tarp I could get 3 or 4 years out of it before getting a new one. I also try to check my boat prior to the hard freeze as much as possible and, as mentioned, use a shop vac to get any water out. If I just can't seem to stop the water gathering in my bilge, then I put a gallon of anti freeze in there.
Keep the advice coming
Thanks everyone for your advice it has helped a lot. Something that I didn't mention in the initial post was that I did cove the boat with tarps this winter season so I am really baffled were all the water came from. It’s a lot of water. I would have to say 10+ gallons.
Thanks everyone for your advice it has helped a lot. Something that I didn't mention in the initial post was that I did cove the boat with tarps this winter season so I am really baffled were all the water came from. It’s a lot of water. I would have to say 10+ gallons.
On the hard
Your boat does not sit on the hard as it does in the water so drainage patterns can be different. One common spot for taking in rain water is when the drain channels along your seat hatches overflow and then drain into the bilge. My old boat used to take in rain water where the rudder post came through the cockpit floor to attach to the tiller. Invariably, some water is going to get in past the tarps, but I agree that 10 gallons is a bit oof a shocker. I am going to assume you emptied your water tanks, water heater, and head tank.
Your boat does not sit on the hard as it does in the water so drainage patterns can be different. One common spot for taking in rain water is when the drain channels along your seat hatches overflow and then drain into the bilge. My old boat used to take in rain water where the rudder post came through the cockpit floor to attach to the tiller. Invariably, some water is going to get in past the tarps, but I agree that 10 gallons is a bit oof a shocker. I am going to assume you emptied your water tanks, water heater, and head tank.
Condensation?
When I put my boat up for the winter, after draining all systems I sponge the bilge dry. A boat cover is then put on which seals the boat 90% tight. I leave the cover open at the bow and the stern to allow for ventilation and also do not seal the dorade vents. Last year I got maybe 2 gallons of water in the bilge, this year a little less. I too, am puzzled about the source. Another thing I noticed was the desiccant tubs, which I put in the head and galley sinks, were saturated (and frozen) with water and surely is not from leaks. I don't think I have leaks, and suspect the source is condensation. The humidity from relatively warm air inside and under the boat cover condenses on the inside surfaces of the externally cold hull and flows to the bilge. But 2 gallons seems much. BobD Boston
When I put my boat up for the winter, after draining all systems I sponge the bilge dry. A boat cover is then put on which seals the boat 90% tight. I leave the cover open at the bow and the stern to allow for ventilation and also do not seal the dorade vents. Last year I got maybe 2 gallons of water in the bilge, this year a little less. I too, am puzzled about the source. Another thing I noticed was the desiccant tubs, which I put in the head and galley sinks, were saturated (and frozen) with water and surely is not from leaks. I don't think I have leaks, and suspect the source is condensation. The humidity from relatively warm air inside and under the boat cover condenses on the inside surfaces of the externally cold hull and flows to the bilge. But 2 gallons seems much. BobD Boston
Higgs has a point
An old salt got me in the habit of pouring a bottle of water out in the cockpit when putting the boat in the cradle, that way you can ensure water is flowing towards the drains. Darn, and as I’m writing this, I realize I forgot to order new drain covers with the rest of this years upgrade goodies…. (doing a mast upgrade this spring) Ferg
An old salt got me in the habit of pouring a bottle of water out in the cockpit when putting the boat in the cradle, that way you can ensure water is flowing towards the drains. Darn, and as I’m writing this, I realize I forgot to order new drain covers with the rest of this years upgrade goodies…. (doing a mast upgrade this spring) Ferg
Keel Supported Mast?
One item you failed to mention is whether your mast is deck or keel supported.If you have a keel supported mast,and store with mast up, it would not be unusual for 4-5 gallons of water entering the bildge thru the mast. I have a full cover and find I must vacuum the bildge every 2 months in the winter from water coming down the mast. I add a gallon of RV-50 after drying the bildge which keeps the ice there as a slush without expanding instead of freezing and expanding. Next year I will go with -100RV antifreeze which should keep the bildge in slush for 3 months, jfssail 1993 Catalina 36 Port Clinton, OH
One item you failed to mention is whether your mast is deck or keel supported.If you have a keel supported mast,and store with mast up, it would not be unusual for 4-5 gallons of water entering the bildge thru the mast. I have a full cover and find I must vacuum the bildge every 2 months in the winter from water coming down the mast. I add a gallon of RV-50 after drying the bildge which keeps the ice there as a slush without expanding instead of freezing and expanding. Next year I will go with -100RV antifreeze which should keep the bildge in slush for 3 months, jfssail 1993 Catalina 36 Port Clinton, OH
Anti freeze in the bilge
While I have certainly gone the route of anti freeze in the bilge, I really try to avoid it if I can. According to Don Casey's "This Old Boat" moisture in the bilge contributes to blistering. I try to monitor my boat on the hard in November to see if water is gathering and if not, I go dry. I also leave my bilge open to the cabin, which is decently ventilated on my boat, in hopes that any moisture down there will evaporate out.
While I have certainly gone the route of anti freeze in the bilge, I really try to avoid it if I can. According to Don Casey's "This Old Boat" moisture in the bilge contributes to blistering. I try to monitor my boat on the hard in November to see if water is gathering and if not, I go dry. I also leave my bilge open to the cabin, which is decently ventilated on my boat, in hopes that any moisture down there will evaporate out.
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