The best explanation of how sails work I've come across

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Aug 10, 2010
178
Catalina 25 The mountains
It's worth the read and, IMO, explains a lot. I've run across theories which didn't make sense to me at all and a lot of my questions have been answered.

How does the main and jib work together? Why can you point higher with the jib? Why is the jib so efficient as compared to the main? What exactly is the jib doing to the main? What does the main do to the jib?

It's all explained by Mr. Gentry, a research aerodynamicist, who kindly wrote up an article.

The website:
http://www.arvelgentry.com/

The article:
http://www.arvelgentry.com/techs/A Review of Modern Sail Theory.pdf
 
May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Sublime: I actually read the entire article, which I don't normally do because as just a common seaman I get confused with all the scientific stuff. I couldn't explain what I read but one thing did catch my attention. He said "most sailors learn from practical experience what it takes to make a boat go fast". That's me he's describing. I don't know what makes the boat go fast but it does. If a mate understood the scientific aspect and could put it into effect he could probably make the boat go even faster.

I'll bet RichH liked that article -- I was thinking of him as I was reading. He's the sail trim forum scientific guru!!
 
Aug 10, 2010
178
Catalina 25 The mountains
Sublime: I actually read the entire article, which I don't normally do because as just a common seaman I get confused with all the scientific stuff. I couldn't explain what I read but one thing did catch my attention. He said "most sailors learn from practical experience what it takes to make a boat go fast". That's me he's describing. I don't know what makes the boat go fast but it does. If a mate understood the scientific aspect and could put it into effect he could probably make the boat go even faster.

I'll bet RichH liked that article -- I was thinking of him as I was reading. He's the sail trim forum scientific guru!!

Most people are not aerodynamic experts nor do they have equipment to watch how air moves over the sails. So most sailors have to learn from practical experience.
Reading it though, it seems like it supports your theory of flattening the sails as much as possible in very light winds.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
You dont have to be a rocket scientist to understand the effects of good aerodynamics.
You can arrive at the exact same conclusions by simply carefully observing (and recording) what happened regarding to the boat speed, etc. versus all the trim and sail shaping you do. The starting point of such experimentation and practice is a full set of tell tales ... thats exactly what the Wright Brothers did!!!!!
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
That's some great stuff! I've never paid attention to sale trim or shape before I got this boat. The forums and links here are great!
Thanks!
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,007
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
I'll bet RichH liked that article -- I was thinking of him as I was reading. He's the sail trim forum scientific guru!!
I can thank RichH for introducing me, and many others here, to the Arvil Gentry article a few years back........ It's a great resource..... I have it bookmarked and go back to it occassionally for a refresh.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,774
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
When I got into sailing, the energy collected by the sails drove the hull into the water and the shape of that hull determined how quickly it came out of the water and in what direction.
Push a cork into the water with a finger tip and let go. It will pop up, wherever. Now shape that cork and it will come out of the water similarly each time. Keep refining your cork hull and you continue to improve performance.
Now they want me to believe that you actually get a difference in wind speed on a piece of cloth a fraction of an inch thick. Never mind that airplane wings are feet thick and that the lower curve is not in any way similar to the upper one as they are in a sail.
And the "slots" are the magic potion of sailing?
Let's get a grip here folks; clipper ships have sailed themselves under, never to be seen again. Without Mylar sails? Yep. Reed sails got men across oceans on balsa rafts. Hemp was used to make fine sails, not smoked.
I knew "sail makers" who leathered the chafe points, did extra stitching where needed (included in cost because it had their name on it and that was the "right" way to make a sail) and produced cruising sails that held their shape through years of reefing, running and beating through gales.
Now, with computer design and mass manufacturing, I doubt that there are quality cruising sails available at any cost, let alone for a cruiser's budget.
Like so many boat builders of today, the sail makers are no longer in the business to create something fantastic, they just want to make as much money for as little effort as possible.
My mainsail is falling apart after maybe (liberally) 200 sails and when I contacted the sailmaker for ideas on how to stop the deterioration, I was told it was time to give it a "decent burial". 200 sails max! Stored and folded in a climate controlled sail loft each winter, stowed in a hood stow-away mast when aboard in the summers! It is a beautiful sail, maybe the nicest setting sail I've ever seen, but what good is that if it is falling apart? A sad state of affairs.
So y'all just keep thinking of sails as aero-foils and I'll get by on my old, outdated misconceptions, somehow getting my 53' heavy displacement ketch up to 10.3 knots, hard to weather in 25 to 30 knots of wind with only a VERY deeply reefed main and the Yankee jib in 8 to 14 foot seas? It's a mystery.
 
May 20, 2004
151
C&C 26 Ghost Lake, Alberta
See Capta, if you could be bothered to understand this stuff you might be able to get 10.4 knots!
sam :)
 

nybor

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Nov 26, 2012
15
catalina 350 Cocoa florida
gulp! kinda intimidated reading all the above posts. BUT, I am now retired from UF and can't be fired, so will ask a stupid (no such thing) question. Where can I find info on how NOT to furl a main on a Catalina 350? For instance, boom orientation.

thanks in advance.
dave bloomquist
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
gulp! kinda intimidated reading all the above posts. BUT, I am now retired from UF and can't be fired, so will ask a stupid (no such thing) question. Where can I find info on how NOT to furl a main on a Catalina 350? For instance, boom orientation.

thanks in advance.
dave bloomquist
Can tell you how properly furl a roller furling main ... Call/contact Catalina and ask them what is the proper TACK ANGLE was provided on your sail when new. (Sorry, but most sailmakers reference books dont have the C350 Main dimensions/angles, etc. .... too 'new' a design.

The tack angle is measured between the top of the boom and the aft of the mast and will be at about 87-89 degrees.
Make permanent marks on your vangs control system (AND your topping lift control lines if you're not using a 'rigid vang') so that the boom is AT this precise Tack Angle when furling or reefing .... This will eliminate 99% of 'furling problems', wrinkled up partly furled mainsail, etc. If you dont use nor set to this tack angle setting either the leech will roll up too tight or the foot will roll up too tight .... If the tack angle is close to the specification (and the outhaul is somewhat slack) you will get an equally tensioned leech and foot when 'rolling'. If not done this way either the foot or the leech will be 'different' in tension than its opposite side of the triangle .... hence undue wrinkling, jamming, VERY BAD shape, etc.

When reefing or completely furling .... the boom is set close to that precise 'tack angle', setting the vang (and topping lift if not using a rigid vang) to those previously made 'permanent marks') BEFORE any furling or reefing. When furling/reefing when the boom is SET to that proper tack angle the take-up and pressure on both the foot and the leech will be somewhat equal and the sail will better 'roll up'.
(and expect that you can only reduce the Sail Area by 30%, for any 'shape' consideration as beyond 30% area reduction the shape will become 'god-awful').

BTW - dont roll up a flogging or wildly 'luffing' sail, always keep it at least 'slightly drawing' with a little bit of leech to mid-cord 'drawing' with its airstream flow attached .... this applies to both furling jibs/genoas as well as roller furling mainsails. Besides, if you let a sail flog wildly for any amount of time ... new sails will be needed much sooner than expected.

BTW-2 ... also ask Catalina the amount of 'preload' or how much that sail has to be 'stretched out' along its luff AFTER the sail is 'just raised' on its luff foil. They will/should respond in 'inches of extra luff stretch' (extra halyard strain) AFTER the sail is raised to 'just up'. This will establish where the point of maximum draft occurs .... important as regards 'weather helm' and how aggressively a boat 'heels'. You want these answers from one of their 'design staff' that actually worked on the C350.
 
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