The benefits of stripped halyards

[Alan]

Many folks post problems they have with raising and lowering their sails. Much of the time it is due to increased friction due to line diameter and sheave size. One solution to this problem is to strip the cover off a spectra cored halyard back just far enough to clear the masthead sheave. In doing so, you never have to handle a 'naked' core yet have the benefit of a smaller diameter line to turn over the sheave which greatly reduces the turning friction and therefore makes it much easier to raise and lower sails.I realize that to some 'racing' is a dirty word, but racers do this for a reason, IT WORKS!

 

[Ross]

Alan, You need a hobby, Taking expensive

High tech line and removing the core and reducing the strength is as brillant as ribbon anchor rodes.

 

[jimq26]

absolute nonsense Alan!!!

nm

 

[Alan]

Take another look.

I said "to strip the cover off", NOT the core. The core is where the strength of the line is. Unlike double braid whose strength lies 1/2 in the core and 1/2 in the cover.jimq26, please explain, where is the nonsense?

 

[Ross]

Alan, I just checked New England ropes

and Pelican ropes both companies state clearly that the braided polyester cover is there to reduce abrasion. Take that cover away anp plan to replace your halyards every season. Both companies recommend a sheeve diameter 8x the line diameter. So why would you think that you can improve on the products of two of the most respected rope makers in the world.

 

[s sauer]

Halyard Weight Aloft

Alan,Thanks for the info; although I think it might have been better received in a racing forum. It is a typical tactic on many high tech one-design boats to reduce halyard weight aloft particularly since the remaining strength is still way more than you need comapared to standard dacron; and having the larger diameter of the cover on the cockpit end makes it easier on your hands.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Weight...

While stripping covers from halyards may make sense to some, it makes no sense at all to me -- particularly if the reason is to reduce weight aloft. If that is the goal, why not just buy a smaller diameter but higher tech line that fits over your sheaves correctly. And as to weight, I gotta chuckle. Look at most Wednesday night race boats and what do you see: Beer-bellied crews eating high fat fast foods. If weight is the issue, throw one of those tubbies overboard....as he probably weighs more that ALL the lines on your boat.

 

[Ross]

S. Sauer, 3/8 line weighs in at a destablizing

5.5 pounds per 100 feet. Assuming a 33 foot mast you will have 29.3 ounces of halyard hanging on the mast from top to bottom,less than the weight of a brief rain shower wetting the sail. A 5/16 line weighs 3.5 pounds per one hundred feet and 1/4 inch line, still with a 4400 pound breaking strength comes in at just 2.4 pounds per hundred feet.So again I ask why does anyone think that they can improve the work of the best rope makers.

 

[Alan]

I'll make a final attempt

First, weight aloft has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. A stripped spectra halyard is smaller in diameter than one with a cover, yet it has exactly the same strength. This means that it turns over the masthead sheave with way less friction and therefore the sails go up and down much easier. Second, a stripped halyard that is covered on the back half is NEVER handled uncovered. Therefore you ALWAYS handle the covered halyard which many find more 'hand friendly'.As a result, you have a halyard which raises and lowers sails much easier AND have a halyard which is user friendly. Hey, it was a suggestion to those interested. If you don't like it don't do it.

 

[Franklin]

We have to understand different ways of thinking

Racers are most concerned with performance. Cruisers are most concerned with cost and durability. To a racer, replacing all lines each year is nothing. Heck, many replace their sails each year. They hire a diver to clean the bottom before each race. They do all kinds of stuff to get that last little 1/10 of a knot to push them across the finish line first.Once we understand this difference, things become more clear.

 

[Rick Webb]

Another Reason Not to do it That Way

Many of us swap the halyards end for end. Kind of like rotating the tires to spread out the wearing and get more use out of them. I also thought that by going with that new high tech stuff you could use a smaller diameter. How much smaller do you need to go?

 

[Warren Milberg]

Raising the Main

I would guess that most of us here have mains that are 350 sq ft or less. Raising a sail that size should be a relatively simple matter for one average person (1) if you have slugs or slides in good condition, (2) if you have a sail track that is lubed once in a while and you've gotten rid of the spiders in it, (3) your masthead sheaves are the right size and maintained, and (4) you have a cabin top or mast winch to get the last few feet up and taught. If you are having a problem, you probably either have the wrong equipment or it is improperly sized or maintained.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Stripped Halyards etc ...

For a real life comparison here are the numbers for a Catalina 30 Jib Halyard:46ft 5/32 7x19 wire44ft 3/8 Double Braid46ft of 5/32 wire weighs about 30 ounces44ft of Double Braid weighs about 31 ouncesAssume a 200 pound load on the halyard.5/32 wire is rated 2400 lbs, under 200lbs tension (8%) it will stretch about 1.16"If the halyard changed to all 3/8 double braid (rated about 5100 lbs) 200lbs is just under 4% of rated strength. 46ft of 3/8 double braid will stretch about 8.5" under 200lbs load.Changing from rope/wire to all rope increases halyard stretch over 7 times.If a low stretch line like Marlow Braid reduces the halyard stretch to 4.25", still 3.5 times the stretch of the rope/wire halyard.Using high tech line like Vectran or Spectra in the same diameter gives a halyard that stretches between 1.09" and 1.17" under 200 lbs load.In this example, to match the performance of the rope/wire halyard, we have to use the same diameter line (as the old rope tail) in Spectra or Vectran to get the same stretch as the old halyard.The original halyard weighed 61 ounces (without the shackle). The same 90 feet of Covered Vectran weighs 71 ounces, in Spectra it weighs 57 ounces.To reduce weight aloft and retain the same stretch as a rope/wire halyard, stripping the cover saves 40-55% of the weight.For cost comparison, West Marine has a 90' 5/32 to 3/8" rope/wire halyard for $124.99. Vectran double braid is about $3.00/ft or $270. Spectra double braid is only $1.45/ft or $130.50Now here's the rub ... rope looses strength with time and usage. Marlow states that their ropes retain a minimum 50% of rated strength after 3 years, I haven't seen a hard number from other manufacturers.If you expect top performance from your lines, and use small diameters that see 20% of rated strength or more under normal conditions, you should be replacing the line every 3-5 years.Makes the rope/wire construction look pretty good doesn't it?

 

[Herb Parsons]

Racers & Cruisers

Franklin nailed it with his racers/crusers comparison.I crew on a raceboat.I'm more of a "cruiser" on my boats, mostly doing going out for a long day, or even a weekend, occasionally for a week or so.On the racing boat, we'll raise and lower sails more in one race than I'll do in a whole weekend on my own boat.I especially took notice of "Heck, many replace their sails each year"In our sailing club, cruisers will often BUY the sails being replaced from the racers. I'm just waiting to find someone that's serious about racing their O'Day 25!

 

[Bill Roosa]

Wire is the way to go

Had the wire with rope tail on my Catalina 30 and I can attest that SS does not stretch much under these kinds of loads. Wears good too. The only issue I had was the winch being on the mast and when the rope changed to wire you had to watch what you where doing or the whole thing would get wrapped on itself. The rope and wire where not spliced in the traditional sense but where shackeled together. This was before I knew how to do such things.

 

[mortyd]

halyard

i got a garhauer ball-bearing sheave this season and the difference is night and day. maybe the best forty bucks i've ever spent, that i remembered the next day. if you don't have one, i suggest this wonderful modification.

 

[Joe]

tapered halyards

I built a pair of "tapered" jib halyards for my cat 27 5 years ago to replace the wire/rope units that had developed "meat hooks". The masthead sheaves are too narrow for 3/8 or 5/18 line, one reason for the wire/rope. Anyway, after talking to the experts at Annapolis Performance Sailing, I chose to purchase 80 feet of 3/16 Tech 12 (Technora 12 strand single braid) for the core. The cover is 40 feet of 5/16 Samson LS, whose existing core is used to fish the new tech 12 core through the cover. The tech 12 is UV protected, bends easily over the sheaves and is much stronger than 3/8 inch sta set. The cover is tapered and buried into the core and lock stiched. Instructions available at Samson website for the single braid eye splice and the taper splice.It was very, very easy to build this halyard. And it has been very durable. The smaller diameter core runs quite easily through the narrow sheaves. The best thing is that the total cost, when purchased from APS (not West Marine, Please) was less than $90 per halyard, plus I had fun making them. Building a tapered halyard is much cheaper than purchasing a high tech douple braid and stripping the cover. You can even buy a polyester cover without a core with a messenger line run through it to pull the new core through. Cool...Building these tapered halyards allowed me to convert to all rope without going up the mast to change the masthead sheaves. It was a solution to a problem born out of racing technology.I can't believe the freak out responses from guys when anyone mentions racing. Guys open up your minds and at least try giving some of this stuff a chance. If we ignored racing technology we'd never have seat belts in cars, or dacron sails on cruising boats. Visit the website for some insight into other rigging solutions especially regarding spinnaker sheets. http://www.apsltd.com

 

[Alan]

Joe...

....do ya think maybe they will???

 

[Joe]

Alan...

...sure, why not? A few, at least, and I'm cool with that.