Test Sailing the boat you bought.

[Patrick S/V Shangra-La]

I was looking at the "Quick Quiz" this week and was surprised at the number of sailors who purchased a boat with out first sailing it. When you have a survey, part of it is a sea trial. This is your chance to see how she feels under sail and how the helm feels, how she heels, and most of the general operation of the boat
both under power and sail.

I am just wondering why a sailor would purchase a boat with out first "kicking the tires" sort of speak, and taking on such a responsibility with out finding out all they can about all the aspects of their boat.

I have walked away from several boats that I thought were great till I had them on the water and found them too "ginger" for my liking, or had flaws in them only noticed under sail. I know the expense of the survey was well worth finding problems I did not want to live with.

What are your thoughts on this, and if your didn't sail your boat befor you bought it....why?

 

[Brian D]

I did just that...

Purchased without a sea trial. I got very lucky. I purchase w/o sea trial out of ignorance not out of impulse. I can rest assure you that I will sea trial my next boat.

 

[Sailm8]

Purchased with a seatrial

This was part of the haulout for survey. Had to sail about 4 hours to the marina and 4 back. The PO was a very experienced sailor and was able to show me some of the boats quirks. By far the survey was the more important but the sea trial confirmed my choice.

 

[Ross]

I purchased my boat on Thanksgiving weekend

1989 and kicked snow and Ice of the very flexible foredeck. She had the shape I was looking for and a lot of rotted wood inside. She came with four sails of doubtful pedigreea and her spars. I paid five thousand for her and spent the next nine and a half years making her into the boat I wanted. She was launched in August 1999 for the first time in 15 years and sat perfectly on her lines. She had by then a new everything but hull, deck, rudder and spars and all of those had gotten much attention.

 

[okawbow]

Got Lucky

I bought my boat based only on description and pictures with no warranty. The seller was leaving the country. I got 3X the boat I paid for. Everything was as described, and better. I took a chance, and won. However; I knew what I wanted as far as the model and size. I wouldn't recommend it for a first timer.

 

[BobSail]

Does the survey include new boat buyers?

It would be interesting to know how many of the respondents might have been buying a new boat.

 

[tommays]

what sea trial

I have bought a few boats new


In 1981 my first J24 was bought new based on seeing their sailing performance while i was taking a beating on my Victoria 18 trying to get home in a blow

We owned the first J24 for 12 years and became very involved in a large fleet in Greenport during which time i learned enough about the warts on a J-boat to buy another 1981 J24 this spring out of a driveway

It was just a NO lose game with with one set of sails with a 1/2 year on them and a very good second set of practice sails as well as a 4HP outboard with 1 Hour on it and a decent trailer

Now i did spend 4 hours taping the hull and deck looking for any core problems BUT the boat had been dry sailed for the last 15 years and had no bottom paint to hide any repairs and it really could not have worked out better


Tommays

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

Should have known better..

While I didn't know better on my first boat, I had an experienced sailor with me when I looked at it. I kinda knew It would need work anyway, like those used cars we used to buy for less than $100 and knew they'd run but not for how long. A decade later, I took the new owners out on that boat before purchase-but it was personal by then and I'd put too much sweat into her to not disclose everything on the boat(they got a real bargain for sure). The current boat was from a dealer and I should have insisted on the 2-mile trip to the local lake for trials(he never suggested it). I'm sure the dealer had never seen the sails(HUGE hole in the jib)and I might have reconsidered after seeing how long the setup from the road to the ramp was going to take. Setup hassles aside, the boat is the right boat for us only after much personalizing and upgrading.

 

[Patrick S/V Shangra-La]

It seems many were lucky

That is fortunate that you got what you expected and more. I guess I would want the dealer to give me a sea trial even if it was new. Though I will never be in a position to buy new.

When I purchased this one a 320 I knew this would be the last boat I was ever going to buy. It took me over a year to find it, and yes the sea trial sealed the deal.

I guess with a new boat a survey isn't necessary as every thing is under warranty. But I think a sea trial is necessary.

 

[Ross]

I should think that a competent boat owner

with many years of boat ownership, would be completely knowledgeable about looking at a boat. If the owner has tended to the keeping of a boat then knowledge of engines, electrical systems, plumbing and rigging and structure will be familiar territory for him/her. However if the owner has always depended upon others for the care of the boat beyond the cosmetics then a surveyor is a wise choice.

 

[BarryL]

boats

Hello,

I have bought three sailboats and never raised the sails on any of them before I bought them. IMHO, if you are buying a common, well known, boat, there is little reason to raise the sails before you buy the boat. Yes, you should have the boat surveyed. Yes, you should thoroughly inspect the boat and the condition of all items on the boat. But I don't know what you would really gain from a test sail. Of course the boat will sail with the sails up. Of course the boat will heel when the wind blows. What else do you need to know?

I have also sold two boats, and the new owners did not go for a sail before the contract was signed.

FYI, my first boat was a Catalina 22. I bought it when it was on a trailer and hadn't been wet in some time. I had the PO test run the outboard for me. I tested everything else. I was very happy with the boat for the year I owned. My second boat was a Newport 28. I had it surveyed and the surveyor tested almost everything, including inspecting the sails. We didn't raise them during the sea trial, but we did roll out and in the headsail. Same thing with my current boat, an O'day 35. Good survey, test everything, but no real need to sail the boat before the purchase.

Barry

 

[sinnettc]

2 boats, no survey, no test sail . . . in 2 years

First one was a 2004 Catalina 16.5 daysailer. That one was a donation to a charity in the same building that my wife works in. While there were a few dings the boat was obviously in great shape and we were able to get it for a steal the same morning it went in the paper.

Second boat, 2001 Catalina Capri 22, came about as the result of a July 4th cruise on an acquaintance's Olson 25. We happened to mention that we were contemplating a larger boat that we could sleep on. He told us the well-cared-for Capri 3 slips down was about to be for sale as the owner had just purchased a Wavelength 24. We looked at it, drooled, and walked away. Several weeks later I got an email with the details and the asking price. On a whim, we drove about a mile to to where Verboten was parked, and took a look. The boat was obviously in good shape, nearly new looking, and we walked away drooling again. A week later I finally decided to ask the bank for a loan, fully expecting them to turn me down. They didn't, I crunched the numbers, and I find myself having bought 2 sailboats in under 2 years. The C16.5 is scheduled to go to a new owner this weekend so I won't have 2 payments.

Would I have purchased without a survey/sail with an older boat? Something in the 1970's-1990's range? Probably not; at least a survey. However, both of these boats were new enough, and obviously in good enough shape, that I didn't think there was likely to be a major problem. So far I've been right - and maybe lucky.

Chris

 

[Hermit Scott]

Cheap skate

I only had $4000 to spend. Since the sailboat market is in the crapper, I started looking at boats selling for $6000 to $10,000 and offering $4000. My reasoning was if it was meant to be it would be.
Deal after deal fell through for various reasons.
Anyway I finally found the boat I have now and spent a few hours with the seller, and crawled all over the boat. I brought a small mallet (on TonyBs suggestion) and I tapped all over it trying to listen for dead spots. I resigned myself to the fact I had no clue what the heck I was doing and just asked the guy 'what's wrong with the boat'. He walked me through it telling me what he would do to the boat before sailing it. I trusted what he said and decided to take a risk. But before I could offer he knocked the price down to 3500. HE also offered to let me keep it at his private dock until I got the diesel rebuilt and dropped back in.
I'm going to guess that buying a boat doesn't usually go like that but that's what I prayed for and that's what I got.
I shopped for a month or so and had about 5 hours of conversations with TonyB trying to cram as much knowledge as he could into my head so I could know what to look for. Thanks again Tony.
I suggest a survey or at least to have a knowledgeable non involed person go along to check things out especially if you are lacking the expertise to know what to look for. I feel like after I restore this boat I will know what to look for next time.

 

[Adirondack Bob]

Finding a Surveyor

I've been reading this thread with interest, since I'm a new boat owner (this is my third season on the Oday 23 I bought in 2006) who bought a sailboat without even knowing what a survey is. Like others in this thread, I got lucky. I bought the boat from the original owner who bought it new in 1983. He took reasonably good care of it, I'm learning, though an older bought needs a lot of work. I don't think a sea trial would have made a difference for me, since I didn't know what to look for at the time. I know a lot more now. But here's something I don't know: how do you find a surveyor, especially if you're considering a boat in another state?

Thanks.

Bob

 

[Patrick S/V Shangra-La]

Bob

If you are looking for a surveyor in another state, you can do an inter-net search, ask a broker in that area, and some times people on this site in the area you are looking at can tell you who they used.

If you do not have a lot of knowledge about the boat you are looking to buy, not only can they find problems, but a good one will give you tips on how to repair what they find wrong. If they find some big problems it can be a deal breaker, and if they are small ones you can tell the owner that you either want them fixed or reduce the price so you can fix them.

I found a couple of small problems on mine, and the PO made a deal with me. I would fix what I found wrong and he would give me the davits he took off the boat. The fixes cost me around 100 in parts, and the davits about a 1000 in savings.

Some insurance companies require a survey to bind the coverage for the boat.

 

[tommays]

Well

I think we are safe buying a sunfish without a survey


But on the 1970 C$C 35 Mark I i sail on when the rog rigging got tired two years ago it turned into a 12000 dollar project buy the time everything was updated


It would really bite if you had bought a boat like this and got hit with that kind of cost in a year

 

[Adirondack Bob]

More on Surveyors

Patrick, thanks for this response. Not having worked with a surveyor (as compared to, say, home inspectors, with which I have had a good deal of experience), I'm flying a little blind. But I have done a lot of research on the boat I'm interested in (as others have suggested in this thread) and also talked to boat owners at the marina where I launch my boat. So I have some knowledge about what to expect and look for. But as I learned with my current boat, it's easy to miss things. In many ways, the surprises I experienced with my first boat ended up being true learning experiences, so I can be more discerning as I look at boats now.

I take your point about negotiating with the PO. That's something I didn't do the first time around, mostly because I didn't know what to look for. Probably paid a few hundred more than I should have.

Bob

 

[Manny]

No sea trial for me

There wasn't a way to get it out of the slip *yks
I wouldn't have cared if it was the worst sailing boat, the price was too good to be true *5
Turns out it sails well!

Manny

 

[stevec22206]

Repective of the boats age

and size and all things being equal is there a minimum amount that wouldn't require a survey. I paid $4000 for a 80' O'day 23 with galvanized trailer and didn't think twice about a survey. Would I spend 10 grand without one, probably not. One would guess that if you didn't know a thing about boats you'd spend the money and get one. With what I know now I might go as high 7 or 8 grand before I worried about a survey. Of course there are other factors to consider but I was wondering what others thought. I didn't presail before the purchase either.

Steve

 

[BobM]

Mitigating circumstances

My first boat was a donated 25 footer with a sails and outboard for $1000. No test sail done, or survey, but for the price as long as the mast stayed up I was happy. Had it for three years.

We bought our second boat this spring. The mitigating circumstance was that after looking at a number of boats and doubling our price range we found a boat in decent shape but it turned out to have bulkhead rot that was turned up during the survey. By that time point it was mid-May and my Wife was losing patience with the boat purchasing process after two months and looking seriously at a half dozen boats. I had done my homework on the boat and knew she was a decent performing boat with other things that were important to us...tee shaped cockpit, diesel, wheel, two double berths, new North main etc...etc...So no test drive.

I hadn't been anticipating buying another boat this year, but when my Wife proved amenable, I had to strike while the iron was hot. ;-)