Test for electrical leak?

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Jun 3, 2004
298
'79 Hunter 33' HUN33190M79L Olympia
Evidence seems to point to an electrical leak on my boat. It's on the hard for one more week meaning I have next Saturday and Sunday to figure this out. Splashing a week from today. Is there an easy way to see if I have a leak? A guy told me to touch voltmeter leads to all the different metal parts outside the hull and look for wavering voltage. Is that right? Once I find evidence of a leak, I go on board and turn things off one at a time and try to make the current stop, to see where it's coming from?
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,695
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
What evidence? Describe the indication you think exist and we might be able to help. Don't worry about your splash date being a limiting factor as you need a ground to complete a circuit and the water will serve that purpose - without a complete circuit, your voltmeter is useless.
 
Nov 18, 2005
73
Beneteau 323 Brookville, IN
If you're referring to an unknown drain on your batteries I would use the following technique. Turn your battery switch on but turn off all power users. Get your hands on a decent amp meter, disconnect the positive cables from your batteries and connect one lead of the ammeter to the positive post on the battery and the other to the battery cable. With nothing turned on there should be no amp draw. If there is a current draw your task is to then work your way through the electrical system to determine the source.


Evidence seems to point to an electrical leak on my boat. It's on the hard for one more week meaning I have next Saturday and Sunday to figure this out. Splashing a week from today. Is there an easy way to see if I have a leak? A guy told me to touch voltmeter leads to all the different metal parts outside the hull and look for wavering voltage. Is that right? Once I find evidence of a leak, I go on board and turn things off one at a time and try to make the current stop, to see where it's coming from?
 
Jun 3, 2004
298
'79 Hunter 33' HUN33190M79L Olympia
My evidence is mostly the very fast corrosion of zincs with no other boats around (I keep the boat on a hook). And I'm pretty sure it's DC because it's usually not hooked to AC. And when I leave the boat, the battery switch is always 'OFF.'
 
Nov 18, 2005
73
Beneteau 323 Brookville, IN
If that's the case, you're beyond my area of expertise as i've never had to deal with that porblem directly.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,695
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
My evidence is mostly the very fast corrosion of zincs with no other boats around (I keep the boat on a hook). And I'm pretty sure it's DC because it's usually not hooked to AC. And when I leave the boat, the battery switch is always 'OFF.'
The good news is that is the easiest problem to solve (DC rather than an AC issue). My supposition is that your zinc(s) last less than 6 months - if longer, go sailing and don't worry about it. If less, put the boat in the water as that's the ONLY way to identify the problem which is almost certainly stray current through the water.

First, always start with the easy stuff. Check (read - thoroughly inspect) ALL connections in ALL DC circuits and pay particular attention to those like the bilge pump(s) where leakage is common. Your voltmeter is useless as even a slight resistance is significant. Also, check to make sure there is only one common DC ground - multiple grounds cause current to flow because no two grounds are at the same potential. Often overlooked is a common AC/DC ground separate from the battery DC ground. Your voltmeter might measure a severe current or voltage but probably not within the tolerance of most common voltmeters so beware of any readings.

Check existence of multiple ground paths from all thruhulls, lightning ground, keel bolts, leakage around depth or speed pucks.

Forgot to mention for clarity that you can use your voltmeter (set to resistance) to identify existence of multiple grounds by disconnecting any suspect paths.

If none of this helps, you'll need to elicit the help of someone with a silver anode circuit voltmeter which is the only reliable way of measuring stray current underwater.
 
Sep 25, 2008
1,096
CS 30 Toronto
And put in a Galvanic Isolator. Just google it. All new boats comes with it now. If you are on the cheap, you can make one using a couple of rectifier diodes.
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
Wires that are wet like the bilge pump are a BIG offender as its pretty easy to have tiny leaks in the insulation that seek out a place to go :)
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,695
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Regarding the galvanic isolator, this is effective to isolate the AC circuit but in this case, when it is a DC problem on the hook away from shore power, the isolator serves no purpose.
 
May 24, 2004
7,215
CC 30 South Florida
"Very fast" is a relative term, please indicate how often. Do you replace the Zincs yourself or rely on a commercial diver?
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
When reading this thread, I did not notice where the boat was "moored" specifically or how close.

If moored near other boats in a marina, I would suggest throwing a sacrifical zinc to detect electroysis or not. If so, then a need to check boats that are plugged in is one source and the other could be the dock shore power too.

Once, a marina said they would not check the shore power but the owner per suggestion did get the county inspector out and indeed it was the dock itself.

I have heard of one boat over the years with an operating genset on board in a mooring that was the culprit.

When describing a situation, more detail is needed to help those who are recommeniding suggestions.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
More info please
How fast are you going through zincs?
If you have an inverter (not getting power through the battery switch but through its own dedicated cables) is it turned on?
Do you have a stereo with "always on" memory circuit?
Are your thru-hulls bonded or isolated (wire connecting all the thru-hulls or no)?
Are your thru-hulls metal or plastic, if metal what types
Where is the zinc(s) that are being eaten up?

I'm assuming that you have a SS prop shaft and bronze prop, please confirm
 
Jun 3, 2004
298
'79 Hunter 33' HUN33190M79L Olympia
I have had zincs put on by a commercial diver. They seem to last about three to four months at best. Bill I have an inverter which is almost always off wired to the battery switch. No to the stereo and bonded thru hulls. I have three bronze thru hulls and one marelon or whatever you call it. And the zincs are on the shaft. Yes to the SS shaft and bronze prop. Here's another queer fact. A guy was helping me with this and he tested my switch and said it was leaking current in the off position. So he put on a new (used) switch. Now bank 1 doesn't work at all. He claims it was working when he put it on. He's says he put all the wires back the way they were. He seems afraid to come back, knowing I'm not loaded with money. Don't know if there still is a leak, thus prompting my initial post.

I'm going to try putting on an actually new battery switch this weekend. I understand that there is no rush and it's probably better to test this with the boat in the water, but obviously I don't know enough yet. I'll try the method of disconnecting the batteries and running them through an ammeter?
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,154
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Stephen

I will be up at Swantown Saturday if you want/need a hand.

Charles
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,760
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I have had zincs put on by a commercial diver. They seem to last about three to four months at best. Bill I have an inverter which is almost always off wired to the battery switch. No to the stereo and bonded thru hulls. I have three bronze thru hulls and one marelon or whatever you call it. And the zincs are on the shaft. Yes to the SS shaft and bronze prop. Here's another queer fact. A guy was helping me with this and he tested my switch and said it was leaking current in the off position. So he put on a new (used) switch. Now bank 1 doesn't work at all. He claims it was working when he put it on. He's says he put all the wires back the way they were. He seems afraid to come back, knowing I'm not loaded with money. Don't know if there still is a leak, thus prompting my initial post.

I'm going to try putting on an actually new battery switch this weekend. I understand that there is no rush and it's probably better to test this with the boat in the water, but obviously I don't know enough yet. I'll try the method of disconnecting the batteries and running them through an ammeter?
Stephan,

1- One of the BIGGEST contributors to stray DC leaks is installers, yards and DIY's who think there is no difference between the boats GREEN/BONDING/EARTH wires and the DC BLACK/ NEGATIVE RETURN wires. There is a HUGE difference..

The green Earthing or bonding wires should always be at zero current/Earth potential. They are never intended to carry a DC or AC load unless there is a fault.

This is one of the most often violated "electrical blunders" I see on boats. Ask Roger Long about what he found last spring related to his "green" wires...

I have seen bilge pumps, water pumps, head shower sumps, fuel pumps, VHF's, mast wiring and just about every other sort of DC circuit you can imagine wired and using the BONDING/EARTH system as a DC negative return.

Start here and make sure there is not s sigle device in the DC system using the bonding/Earth system for a DC negative return to the battery.

Also the mast is NOT a DC current carrying device!!! I see this all the time too and the masts are bonded too turning the bonding/Earth grounds into DC current carrying wires.....

2- There should be a single Earth ground (NOT CURRENT CARRYING) and a single DC negative ground point for the entire boat. Multiple grounds are bad. These points are usually the engine block on boats with in-board engines. Try to keep all grounds on the engine to a single point as well then you minimize the engine being used to carry current other than the starter and alarm circuits. I always tend to add an extra ground wire, even on case grounded alts, that goes direct to the single point engine ground for a direct path back to the battery bank.

3- Cheap wire is another contributor. Many builders used trailer wire or worse, lamp cord. These wires can suffer from a phenomenon called "water treeing" where the jacket become a leak. Wire in the bilges are a big contributor.

4- If your boat DOES have a single "bonding/Earth" point you can remove this wire and insert a digital volt meter, set to DC amps on the mA setting first and the 10A setting next. You insert the meter between the main GREEN wire ground point and the piece it was bolted to. You then power up batt switch, on the mA setting, with NOTHING ON, and check for current flow in the bonding/grounding wires. The move to the 10A setting and turn on the DC devices one at a time being sure not to fire up motors until the very end of your test. DC motors for pumps, macerator etc. will often exceed the fast blow fuses inside the 10A DC amp circuit of the DVM. You are hoping NO DC devices are connected to the GREEN grounding wires and if they are you will see it here BUT only if your vessel does not have MULTIPLE ground points. If you see ANY current on any of the grounding/Earth wires this is BAD and needs to be corrected. DC current should only ever flow in the DC negative (BLACK or YELLOW) return wires.

5- Next insert your DVM on the mA setting between your battery positive post and the positive battery cable. With the switch off you should have no leakage/current unless you have a propane sniffer or other "always on" device. If you have current you need to disconnect circuits, one by one, until you find the offender.



All in all your zinc use is not crazy, should be better, and it could just be "cheap zincs". If you don't find anything doing the tests above install a Godfrey Zinc on a CLEAN spot on the shaft and let us know how long you get.

This is what a "quality" zinc looks like. They DO NOT use a copper bearing to make shaft contact. Instead they utilize a completely embedded collar with about 1000+% more contact area to both zinc and shaft...

Note how even the wear is on this zinc:

Last summer I was pinched on time and did not have the ability to pick up a Godfrey zinc.:doh: I used an el-cheapo copper bearing special... By July it was in pretty rough shape and unevenly erroded. Put on a good one in July and when the boat came out in late November it was still in near perfect shape... The quality of the zinc counts for a lot....
 
Jun 3, 2004
298
'79 Hunter 33' HUN33190M79L Olympia
Hey Charles, feel free to stop by the Boatworks. I'll be there all day Saturday (not to mention Sunday) First left/aisle after you come in the gate, second boat from the far end, on the right.
 
Jun 3, 2004
298
'79 Hunter 33' HUN33190M79L Olympia
Maine Sail, Thanks for the great info. I'm confused about the meaning of "GREEN/BONDING/EARTH wires" Some of the wiring on the boat, like to the light fixtures, has green wires, green and black usually. You're not talking about these are you? Are you talking about any green wires in the system or are you talking about a separate earth ground sometimes put in that some things are wired to? I should eliminate such a ground and put them all to the negative on the engine? I should replace any green wires? I need to check the negative ground and make sure no green wires are attached to it? No, I check for another ground, the green one, and make sure no black wires are attached to it? I don't recall seeing a second ground anywhere.
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,154
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Stephen

OK - I will furnish the meter. Consider the things Maine Sail has listed. Suggest also making an "as built" electrical diagram no matter that you may have an "original" diagram. Diagraming frequently reveals goofs - usually a series of goofs - and you end up with something useful even if you don't find anything strange. Meanwhile - read through http://www.kastenmarine.com/_pdf/mbqCref.pdf - which explains why Maine Sail lists these things as possible culprits.

Charles
 
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