TES 246 Versus - coming to Canada in 2nd half of 2016

[Bosman]

Hmm...so I think I got very good motivator to put up our S27 for sale towards the end of this sailing season. We spent weekends on the water, as opposed day-sailing, so this might be good candidate.
I generally prefer modern designs as opposed to the "classics" and this one really stands out of the crowd, when compared to other vessels this size available on the market. The most unique design feature must be the reverse bow - the boat is very likely the very first trailerable cabin monohull with inverted bow on the market. Also check out massively asymmetrical companionway. It is actually a very good idea in terms of managing additional room for large head and improved (possibly) ergonomics of interior layout. If they did 246i performance variant with slightly taller mast and square head mainsail, it is going to nearly fly, especially when the Code 0 or another flying sail is up ;-) The more I look at the boat the more I like it. Hopefully it will be displayed at Toronto Boat Show next January.

Some specs:
Hull length: 24'-6"
Beam: 8'-4"
Headroom: >6'
Draft keel up: 13"
Draft keel down: 4'-8"
Displacement from: 4840lbs
Ballast: 1320 lbs
Sail area: 301.4 ft2
www.tes-yacht.ca

 

[Jackdaw]

Some clever details. Its fun to see a company willing to challenge established design dogma. It doesn't always work, but that's not the point. As for the boat, it looks a lot better if you cover the underwater bits in the hull profile. It has HUGE freeboard and almost looks silly when you see the whole hull.

The reverse bow is purely cosmetic I know, but makes NO SENSE on a boat that is deigned to go to shore bow-in like this one is (walk-able sprit and bow pulpit onto the sprit give that away).

Its says will be fast... but 5000 lbs and 300 feet of upwind sail do not make fast in my book. We'll see.

 

[Bosman]

Good points Jackdaw. Freeboard, this mast come as a surprise, but for most of my life I have encountered boats with full standing height (trailerable) and it was not until some years ago when I saw strange (for me) looking boats with comfortable sitting height only - so that is very relative. High freeboard is a norm for what the European client (majority at least) wants (and this has been discussed many times with the following conclusions: US sailor is more like to day-sail and race while EU sailor will do more weekends) and the target market segment. Seems that great number of cruising production vessels have these days hard chimes and plumb bows - but for majority of these vessels they play purely visual notes, unless we talk Pogo, RM or LG899 and similar pure-race-adrenaline-pumping designs. Yes, hard chimes do increase interior volume under the cockpit. I too feel the styling cues and the looks of the boat as an overall shape is mostly for looks, just as we see with some cars. While reverse-bow may make no sense initially (other thank for the looks alone), here are my scientifically unsupported thoughts:
- coastal european waters or large lakes often have short, choppy waves. This type of bow will make the boat move more smoothly through them with less loss of speed. It will be wetter ride, but that what the sprayhood was invented for.
- less material in the bow = less weight. This is good
- some marinas calculate fees based on total boat length - this one will be short
- boat is designed to fit into standard sea-can container
- easier trailer launching and retrieval - reduced risk of bow hitting the front trailer winch

Sail performance - this is all theoretical now. Versus does fly more sail than 26RK but less than First 25s - so somewhere in the middle. All three boats are little different two and serve different purposes. At least on paper, F25S is most performance oriented. In some EU member states, one can operate or charter pleasure craft (sail) without any prior training as long as the hull length does not exceed 7.5m. 24.6 is exactly 7.5m - smaller sail area might be deliberate decision to make the boat "safer" for new sailors. I see no reason why boat could not be ordered with the mast that is 3ft longer, square head mainsail and larger jib.

 

[Bad Obsession]

I'd take the TES 28. That is a cool looking boat

http://www.tes-yacht.ca/index.php/sailboats/tes-28-magnam#1-6-video-and-media

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Just a few thoughts. Do the marinas that charge for the length of the boat include the length from the bow sprit to the back of the rudder. Do you have a local dealer to take care of warranty? What about parts that cannot be obtained in North America.
Support?

 

[Jackdaw]

Don't get me wrong I like the concept. I too am an enthusiast of European designs; in general they speak to my kind of sailing more that most American makes do. And a lot of these come from the former block counties, in particular Croatia, Slovenia, and of course Poland.

As to freeboard I get what you are saying. Comfort matters. Of course it is possible to have +6 feet headroom in a 7.5M yacht. But then it looks like that. Most designers and builders figure that 5'10" is the limits of acceptability, and it gives a much more attractive profile, weights less, and less windage. In many ways this is like what Hunter does, pushing the limits of conventional hull shapes to maximize room. Think Hunter 260. Sure tons of room downstairs, but (to my eye) the thing is simply hard to look at. The TES is better looking than that, having more of a muscular 'chunky' look to the Hunters 'over-inflated', and it gives them a selling point over boats that don't have pure standing head room, IF that is important to a potential buyer. From a marketing perspective, that's a good thing.

As for the bow, first of all it does look cool. But that boat will never experience any of the theoretical advantages of a wave piercing bow. From a marina perspective, it might shorten LOD (Length On Deck), but nobody sells dockage based on that. LOA, which includes rudders and sprits is more typical and that not effected by the reverse bow. I know several people (and builders) with these bows, and the early reports are that the bows are more prone to damage, not less. Maybe that's a learning thing, but its happening.

Performance; well I'd assume that anyone who wants standing head room in a 7.5M yacht is NOT looking for maximum performance. You are right, the smaller rig will be easier to sail and more forgiving. But simply adding height and area to the rig is not a great idea unless that (and its related stresses) have been designed and built into the boat from the start. Many builder are reluctant to do that, because it add cost to the base boat that the majority of the hulls with the smaller rigs will not need. But if done they paid for.

 

[Bosman]

Dave: My marina used to charge per boat length for the fist few years, but now it is a flat fee. This does vary by marina, I imagine. As far as warranty is concerned, I know fellow sailor that owns TES 720BT here in Alberta (boat was purchased used, 3 years old). Local rep visited him twice and helped setup the boat for the first time, as well as provided valuable tips and advice. The new owner decided to replace some parts (damaged/scuffed by previous owner) and had no issues getting the replacement parts from TES. Overall, it is my understanding that he is happy with after sales support as his concerns and questions were addressed promptly. TES has been on Canadian market since 2002 (or 2004, don't remember exactly, I asked long ago).

Jackdaw: I am not trying to upset anyone, there are people that like classic designs and some that prefer modern. For me comforts below the deck (standing height, good size head, stove with oven, heating etc) do play more important role than speed alone. This is reflected on how my wife and I use the boat and I know I am minority (at least here at my marina in AB), because even on most summer weekend very little people stay for the night on the boats. I agree with you in 100% that it makes the boat look little un-proportional. I am next to O'day 20 and it is already absolutely dwarfed by S27. With proper knowledge, at least 50% keel down, sufficient speed to maintain directional stability and some training the high freeboard is not that difficult to handle. If it is blowing like crazy I drop anchor, have a coffee and wait it out - I don't want to cause damage to any other boats or mine. If I was active racer or only spend few hours on the boat, speed and cockpit space would be priority. I would consider myself "fast cruiser" ;-)

I am not aware of other boats currently on the market with reverse bow design (other than catamarans) - who do you have in mind? At last I will have method of dealing with all those powerboaters not aware that sail-powered vessel has the right of way ;-) RAM!!!!!

You are correct, reverse bow will require "remembering" that the boat is closer to the dock than it appears. The 720BT model has a water-tight cross member at the bow section and the boat will stay afloat even if the bow is pierced/damaged below the waterline. Same goes for the 28 Magnam and it would only make sense that the builder follows the same approach on the 246 Versus. It is a safety feature of the boat (that I wish no-one to test in real life) and does not replace common manouvering/docking experience.

 

[Bosman]

For some reason linked image does not work. Attaching.

 

[Jackdaw]

Bosman,

All good! But I'm really talking about design vs proportion. I like the design. Its proportions that I'm not wild about. Every designer will know the difference, and makes tradeoffs based on requirements.

Production reverse bows? How about the Farr 280 and the Fareast 28r. Pics below. I'm actually going coaching this weekend, and one of the tasks is to discuss the 28r with my team as a new boat. Zoom!

Interesting to note that Farr Design also designed the new Volvo 65 boats, which kicked off the reverse bow craze. I was talking to Patrick Shaughnessy, the President of Farr, and asked him about the reason/advantage behind the reverse bow. His answer? Cosmetic.

Farr 280

And for big effect, the Fareast 28r

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Bosman;
Everyone has good impute but what I told my customers, a lot will determine on asthetics of a boat as we;;. If you like it, you will keep it longer. Obviiously you are aware of the issues which is good and if you feel the boat is for you, then purchase it. Generally, the price will be more but a lot due to the shipping unless in a container. Once I knew someone from Canada but a different boat shipped in a container. I learned a lot of issues about importing from overseas but a lot will depend on the dealer and the ease of getting those specific built parts from the manufacturer which you have taken into consideration.

Jackdaw;
When the Hunter 260 was designed, criteria had to include room/comfort, ease of trailering to include on/off of trailer and mast raise, etc... It was not designed for racing but for the pleasure sailor and is one of the most sought after boats. Like I said, asthetics is an issue with some. Yet I was comfortable to race it as well knowing the boat well. I appreciate the impute as always. Now if you can find some monkeys to help me finish off the basement (2000 sq. foot) that would help. In three months, I have gotten to the point of mudding the sheet rock with wiring and heat/air in. I can see the mountains from all directions and when it snows, I start counting at 2 foot. Then plowing the driveway for a quarter of a mile down the mountain. Hope you are doing well.

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw;
When the Hunter 260 was designed, criteria had to include room/comfort, ease of trailering to include on/off of trailer and mast raise, etc... It was not designed for racing but for the pleasure sailor and is one of the most sought after boats. Like I said, asthetics is an issue with some. Yet I was comfortable to race it as well knowing the boat well. I appreciate the impute as always. Now if you can find some monkeys to help me finish off the basement (2000 sq. foot) that would help. In three months, I have gotten to the point of mudding the sheet rock with wiring and heat/air in. I can see the mountains from all directions and when it snows, I start counting at 2 foot. Then plowing the driveway for a quarter of a mile down the mountain. Hope you are doing well.

Dave, I agree that the H260 does everything the design team wanted. Everyone that I know that has/had one loves the boat. If I've ever in your neck of the woods I'll for sure stop by!

 

[Bosman]

Jackdaw: Fareast yachts did create a stir at the Boot Dusseldorf in January of last year, showing that production of serious boats for competitive racing is not only privilege of North American or European designers and builders. With time I am expecting to see more production boats coming from Asia and supplying tools for the art of sailing throughout the world. But how am I suppose to make a cup of coffee onboard one of those?? :-D These are wonderful boats and I would love to do some hours of sailing on one of them, even as an active ballast, but I would not make a commitment to purchase one. In the similar category of vessels I would be somewhat more flexible with either Huzar 28 http://yfm.yachtfocus.com/uploads/nieuwe-boten/1262/documenten/huzar_28_brochure.pdf or Nautiner NH Fun 30, making coffee is possible there ;-)

But going back on topic, I guess using car analogy, instead of buying track only race car, I need Mini Coopers S Countryman. Little out of proportions, but very roomy, with great handling and reasonable acceleration. A vehicle (or boat) that I could use every day. It could also be taken to a track day. I feel that this is what the Versus might be (or what I would like it to be).

Dave: I like to "feel and handle" items before purchase, so before I am anywhere near committing to purchase such boat, I would have to see it in person and test-sail it. My infatuation might perish or not. From what I have learned, it is usually a good thing to wait until a few first production vessels of any new model are released and any 'teething issues' are solved. It might be as simple as repositioning some hardware for better ergonomics, but on a long term it makes a difference. Seeing that the boat might be in Canada in late 2016, it is very likely that any test sailing may not take place until the spring of 2017. If that happens, I promise I will have an excellent review material to share here, as well as photos. There is no offcial pricing on the vessel, but it's been hinted it will be in the mid $60's (Canadian) for the sail-away package incl trailer. With current US exchange rate that is about mid to high $40's USD, which is actually not all that bad. TES' previous models (720BT) is already regularly shipped in sea-cans to Canada with sail away price in the low to mid $50s (Canadian).

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Thank you Jackdaw and Bosman for kindly responding. If you look at the beginning of the James River in Virginia, I am the highest home in this mountainis region. Snowing again here