Terrible Accident
- Thread starter Marcia
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Alcohol doesn't explode
We have an old alcohol stove which has it's own problems. Fear of explosions has been part of the reason that we haven't replaced the old alchol stove with a new propane stove. My wife had a big "POOF" on our last boat. She was lighting a propane stove with a match and messed around too long and when she finally struck the match "POOF" singed her hair and it might have damaged the boat except the compainionway hatch was fully open.
We have an old alcohol stove which has it's own problems. Fear of explosions has been part of the reason that we haven't replaced the old alchol stove with a new propane stove. My wife had a big "POOF" on our last boat. She was lighting a propane stove with a match and messed around too long and when she finally struck the match "POOF" singed her hair and it might have damaged the boat except the compainionway hatch was fully open.
Wow
I once saw a propane stove explode and never want one in my boat. I have a alcohol one and once you are used to it, works good enough. (I also run the blower a long time before starting the engine).
I once saw a propane stove explode and never want one in my boat. I have a alcohol one and once you are used to it, works good enough. (I also run the blower a long time before starting the engine).
Nother reason why CNG should of caught on
Hard to fathom that a little propane could cause all that damage. I have CNG which is lighter than air and doesn't gather in bilges etc. Have thought of replacing with propane because of difficulty getting bottle refilled but this makes me rethink.
Hard to fathom that a little propane could cause all that damage. I have CNG which is lighter than air and doesn't gather in bilges etc. Have thought of replacing with propane because of difficulty getting bottle refilled but this makes me rethink.
all have inherient
problems if proper instillation, use and maintenance is not followed. I once saw an alcohol stove catch on fire due to the person lighting the stove not remembering to turn the flow down....fire spilled all over the galley and almost burned the boat down. Proper use when dealing with any fuel is the key!
problems if proper instillation, use and maintenance is not followed. I once saw an alcohol stove catch on fire due to the person lighting the stove not remembering to turn the flow down....fire spilled all over the galley and almost burned the boat down. Proper use when dealing with any fuel is the key!
I wonder where the tanks were stored?
some people have converted hanging lockers to tank storage. If thats all thats left of the boat Im guessing the tank was Inside the cabin somewhere. We have Propane on ours and yes it makes me nervous, last year I installed an alarm on the switch,,,if it detects just a hint of stray fumes it refuses to light...installed it low near the floor. our tanks are aft, on our stern rail in a propane locker. I hope hes going to be ok.
some people have converted hanging lockers to tank storage. If thats all thats left of the boat Im guessing the tank was Inside the cabin somewhere. We have Propane on ours and yes it makes me nervous, last year I installed an alarm on the switch,,,if it detects just a hint of stray fumes it refuses to light...installed it low near the floor. our tanks are aft, on our stern rail in a propane locker. I hope hes going to be ok.
On the lighter side of things...
This would make for an interesting Myth on Myth Busters. They like blowing up things. On the serious side, I would like to know the findings of the investigation. This for a safety "lesson learned". I'm sure the tank itself did not fail, Myth Busters have pretty much proven that (granted, not real scientific, but they do cover much ground). So there must have been a propane leak and he ignited something. Looking at the areal photo, one can see the mast resting on a couple of boats. Looks like it is still attached to the upper deck. One can also see the aft port pylon and a line taunt in the water. Looks like the boat, or remainder of the boat, sank.
This would make for an interesting Myth on Myth Busters. They like blowing up things. On the serious side, I would like to know the findings of the investigation. This for a safety "lesson learned". I'm sure the tank itself did not fail, Myth Busters have pretty much proven that (granted, not real scientific, but they do cover much ground). So there must have been a propane leak and he ignited something. Looking at the areal photo, one can see the mast resting on a couple of boats. Looks like it is still attached to the upper deck. One can also see the aft port pylon and a line taunt in the water. Looks like the boat, or remainder of the boat, sank.
It doesn't take very much fuel to make a bomb
The center of flammability for propane is 8 percent in air. Given one pound of propane and 11 pounds of air, with air have about 20 percent oxygen we get 2.2 pounds of oxygen and 1 pound of fuel for a 3.2 pound bomb. Half a pound on dynamite will take a boat apart. You don't need much of a leak, well mixed with air to do the job. In working with flammable gas I emphasize that if you don't have experience and knowledge get some help from somebody that does.
The center of flammability for propane is 8 percent in air. Given one pound of propane and 11 pounds of air, with air have about 20 percent oxygen we get 2.2 pounds of oxygen and 1 pound of fuel for a 3.2 pound bomb. Half a pound on dynamite will take a boat apart. You don't need much of a leak, well mixed with air to do the job. In working with flammable gas I emphasize that if you don't have experience and knowledge get some help from somebody that does.
Ross, maybe not
How many cubic feet is that? I don't think many sail boats hold that much volume at 1 bar? Homeland security would stop propane sales if that was true.
How many cubic feet is that? I don't think many sail boats hold that much volume at 1 bar? Homeland security would stop propane sales if that was true.
Propane vs alcohol
This debate comes up every so often. Propane is absolutely safe on a boat I have been using it for years with absolutely no problem. As with any flamable you have to use common sense. We will probably never know what happened in this situation.... but I sure hope this guy pulls through.
This debate comes up every so often. Propane is absolutely safe on a boat I have been using it for years with absolutely no problem. As with any flamable you have to use common sense. We will probably never know what happened in this situation.... but I sure hope this guy pulls through.
Doug, 1.83 Kg/ cubic meter that's 4 pounds in 35
cubic feet. 1 pound in 9 cubic feet would need 108 cubic feet of air for a clean burn. total volume for one pound propane bomb 117 cu.ft. less than 5x5x5 feet. Home land security already knows, and you can buy liquid oxygen without a permit also.
cubic feet. 1 pound in 9 cubic feet would need 108 cubic feet of air for a clean burn. total volume for one pound propane bomb 117 cu.ft. less than 5x5x5 feet. Home land security already knows, and you can buy liquid oxygen without a permit also.
If you vaporize alchol in the air it will go bang
too! Diesel fuel is said to be very safe but if you mix it with an oxidizer it becomes an entirely new problem. Any container that you find around a swimming pool with a yellow label will serve the purpose.
too! Diesel fuel is said to be very safe but if you mix it with an oxidizer it becomes an entirely new problem. Any container that you find around a swimming pool with a yellow label will serve the purpose.
I WAS THERE
Happened at my marina! My boat is on the pier adjacent to the one where the explosion occured. I do not know the injured man, but he was blown off the boat and badly burned per first-hand witness reports. He was taken to burn-trama unit at Norfolk General Hospital. Hopefully he will be ok. I am amazed he survived! Thankfully, no one else was injured. It was about 5:45 Wed. evening and we were going out for the Wed night "beer can" race. We had been underway about 10 minutes when we heard a very loud bang (like a cannon going off). Looked over to see a large black mushroom cloud and debris flying into the air. Unsure of exactly what had happened, we went back in because one of our crew is an emergency room nurse. We dropped her off, and because there was already so much "comotion", we decided to go back out for the race. (We won, in very light wind
) When we did come back in from the race, the damage was as amazing as the pictures show. The entire deck of the boat was blown 40 feet into the air. It came down in pieces on adjacent boats. The hull sank immediatly; leaving only the large area of floating debris seen in the pictures. We were unable to go down "C" pier as the police and fire department had taped it off as a crime scene. It is amazing what an (apparent) propane explosion can do to a 42' sailboat. Quite sobering !
Happened at my marina! My boat is on the pier adjacent to the one where the explosion occured. I do not know the injured man, but he was blown off the boat and badly burned per first-hand witness reports. He was taken to burn-trama unit at Norfolk General Hospital. Hopefully he will be ok. I am amazed he survived! Thankfully, no one else was injured. It was about 5:45 Wed. evening and we were going out for the Wed night "beer can" race. We had been underway about 10 minutes when we heard a very loud bang (like a cannon going off). Looked over to see a large black mushroom cloud and debris flying into the air. Unsure of exactly what had happened, we went back in because one of our crew is an emergency room nurse. We dropped her off, and because there was already so much "comotion", we decided to go back out for the race. (We won, in very light wind
) When we did come back in from the race, the damage was as amazing as the pictures show. The entire deck of the boat was blown 40 feet into the air. It came down in pieces on adjacent boats. The hull sank immediatly; leaving only the large area of floating debris seen in the pictures. We were unable to go down "C" pier as the police and fire department had taped it off as a crime scene. It is amazing what an (apparent) propane explosion can do to a 42' sailboat. Quite sobering !
Accident Update
Latest news report: A witness said he pulled himself out of the water but authorities were still waiting to interview him as to the cause of the explosion. The news report also said that a salvage team was going to take underwater photos today. I may drive over there to see what there is to see without getting in the way, of course. It's just a stones throw from my boat slip. I'll post if I come up with anything
Latest news report: A witness said he pulled himself out of the water but authorities were still waiting to interview him as to the cause of the explosion. The news report also said that a salvage team was going to take underwater photos today. I may drive over there to see what there is to see without getting in the way, of course. It's just a stones throw from my boat slip. I'll post if I come up with anything
No offense intended, Ross...
but I wouldn't give some of those on the fringe any ideas with pool chemicals, etc.
but I wouldn't give some of those on the fringe any ideas with pool chemicals, etc.
Ross any flamable material can explode
The trick is small particles mixed with air. Coal dust explodes as does flour. It is just difficult to accidently get enough coal dust or flour in the air to cause an explosion. The same is true with alcohol. Short of boiling it in a pan it is hard to get enough alcohol vaporised to cause an explosion. Fortunately chlorine gas is rarely if ever found on a boat but pure chlorine gas can burn very well (by burn I mean chemically react giving off heat). The advantage of diesel and alcohol is that they have much lower vapor pressures than gasoline or propane. They will burn but rarely produce an explosion. Even with a hot alcohol stove restart we have had a flare-up but not the "poof" that you get with propane. My son and I made a neat little tennis ball cannon. Using soup cans and WD-40 or lighter fluid as propellant. It could shoot a tennis ball over the house. These propellants give a "soft" explosion more of a poof than a bang. And it was cheap. Old tennis balls empty cans and WD-40 from the garage. Duct taped the cans together. we used 5 cans. Three cans with both ends removed for the barrel. Then two cans open ends taped together with an opening cut to allow gases into the barrel and a small hole punched to light a match. Drop ball into barrel .Spray WD-40 into the small hole. Point in safe direction and light the small hole. I got the plans from a teacher's guide for physics. Don't try to use other propellants as a vigorous explosion would probably burst the cans and be dangerous.
The trick is small particles mixed with air. Coal dust explodes as does flour. It is just difficult to accidently get enough coal dust or flour in the air to cause an explosion. The same is true with alcohol. Short of boiling it in a pan it is hard to get enough alcohol vaporised to cause an explosion. Fortunately chlorine gas is rarely if ever found on a boat but pure chlorine gas can burn very well (by burn I mean chemically react giving off heat). The advantage of diesel and alcohol is that they have much lower vapor pressures than gasoline or propane. They will burn but rarely produce an explosion. Even with a hot alcohol stove restart we have had a flare-up but not the "poof" that you get with propane. My son and I made a neat little tennis ball cannon. Using soup cans and WD-40 or lighter fluid as propellant. It could shoot a tennis ball over the house. These propellants give a "soft" explosion more of a poof than a bang. And it was cheap. Old tennis balls empty cans and WD-40 from the garage. Duct taped the cans together. we used 5 cans. Three cans with both ends removed for the barrel. Then two cans open ends taped together with an opening cut to allow gases into the barrel and a small hole punched to light a match. Drop ball into barrel .Spray WD-40 into the small hole. Point in safe direction and light the small hole. I got the plans from a teacher's guide for physics. Don't try to use other propellants as a vigorous explosion would probably burst the cans and be dangerous.
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