Tender/dinghy
- Thread starter sheila
- Start date
There're some more pictures etc. of the "Black Fly" light-weight dinghy project on my site at
Oh, and also a post on sail cleaning ... very opinionated, of course ;-)
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
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Oh, and also a post on sail cleaning ... very opinionated, of course ;-)
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
Its comming out really pretty. SOF dinghys are very elegant. BUT, where are you going to store it when sailing. I personally dont like to have a tender behind my boat when offshore, and is there space enough on deck?
Also, I saw your post about the Origami folding dinghy. You write that it´ll fit in the forepeak, which is very interesting. But do you think there´ll be enough space for 2 persons (6\' and 5\') sleeping there with the dinghy.
I´m very interested in that little "beauty" I think it looks very practical.
Anders
Also, I saw your post about the Origami folding dinghy. You write that it´ll fit in the forepeak, which is very interesting. But do you think there´ll be enough space for 2 persons (6\' and 5\') sleeping there with the dinghy.
I´m very interested in that little "beauty" I think it looks very practical.
Anders
Peter
Maybe you know this Origami building blog:
Its not high level building like what you do, but it floats and noone will stell it when it looks like that.
I can imagine that you know this folding dinghy as well. But at 82' (210cm) its a bit to long to stow, but like the simplicity:
Maybe you know this Origami building blog:
Its not high level building like what you do, but it floats and noone will stell it when it looks like that.
I can imagine that you know this folding dinghy as well. But at 82' (210cm) its a bit to long to stow, but like the simplicity:
Peter - I've been watching your blog with great interest. The project is coming along nicely. You have the Midas touch. Obviously skills developed through a lot of practice.
Jack
Jack
Hi Anders,
I have a Rachel 7'3" pram, an EastPort 7'9" pram, and now the 7'9" Black Fly. All three (one at a time, of course) stow upside down on the foredeck.
The Rachel (my 'workboat') http://www3.telus.net/sailing/rachel.jpg
The Eastport: http://www3.telus.net/sailing/dod1.jpg
The Black Fly: http://www3.telus.net/sailing/dod2.jpg
The bow transoms have a small hole at the top center that fits over the foredeck cleat on the Vega, and a ratchet strap across the stern, through a slot in the skeg(s) and around the forward handrails, does the job holding the rig down. On several occasions I've taken green water over the bow and the dinghy hasn't moved.
As I have a furler the need to access the foredeck is limited to anchoring. There's still room to pass by the dingy, or walk over the top, although this wouldn't work on the fabric-covered one!
I don't like towing, except for short distances. But I think the Black Fly, at less than 30 lbs, would not slow the boat down at all.
Anyway, the pram is usually hoisted aboard, straight up by the bow, using a spare jib halyard. It takes about 5 minutes to launch or retrieve the two heavier ones, which weigh about 70 lbs each.The 'Fly will be different matter, as I'll be able to reach over the side and pluck it aboard with one hand
The Origami idea will probably be shelved ... it's just too ugly... I might build a skin-on-frame kayak next, maybe using a more durable sheathing material. You can't have too many small boats!
We use the forward cabin for stowage, and sleep in the main cabin, with a panel inserted between the settees to make one large bed. The panel is 1/2" ply, and resides under the starboard settee cushion when not in use. The forward cabin holds the cockpit awning, dinghy oars mast and sail, folding bike, cockpit cushions, sleeping bags, and clothes bags.
I am a bit concerned with the frailty of the 'Fly bottom covering. I might add some wood rub strips on the bottom, as well as the skeg. I also plan to carry a roll of duct tape ... just in case! With it being so light it can be carried, rather than dragged, up the beach. Having the plywood bottom in it should help prevent a lot of punctures.
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
I have a Rachel 7'3" pram, an EastPort 7'9" pram, and now the 7'9" Black Fly. All three (one at a time, of course) stow upside down on the foredeck.
The Rachel (my 'workboat') http://www3.telus.net/sailing/rachel.jpg
The Eastport: http://www3.telus.net/sailing/dod1.jpg
The Black Fly: http://www3.telus.net/sailing/dod2.jpg
The bow transoms have a small hole at the top center that fits over the foredeck cleat on the Vega, and a ratchet strap across the stern, through a slot in the skeg(s) and around the forward handrails, does the job holding the rig down. On several occasions I've taken green water over the bow and the dinghy hasn't moved.
As I have a furler the need to access the foredeck is limited to anchoring. There's still room to pass by the dingy, or walk over the top, although this wouldn't work on the fabric-covered one!
I don't like towing, except for short distances. But I think the Black Fly, at less than 30 lbs, would not slow the boat down at all.
Anyway, the pram is usually hoisted aboard, straight up by the bow, using a spare jib halyard. It takes about 5 minutes to launch or retrieve the two heavier ones, which weigh about 70 lbs each.The 'Fly will be different matter, as I'll be able to reach over the side and pluck it aboard with one hand
The Origami idea will probably be shelved ... it's just too ugly... I might build a skin-on-frame kayak next, maybe using a more durable sheathing material. You can't have too many small boats!
We use the forward cabin for stowage, and sleep in the main cabin, with a panel inserted between the settees to make one large bed. The panel is 1/2" ply, and resides under the starboard settee cushion when not in use. The forward cabin holds the cockpit awning, dinghy oars mast and sail, folding bike, cockpit cushions, sleeping bags, and clothes bags.
I am a bit concerned with the frailty of the 'Fly bottom covering. I might add some wood rub strips on the bottom, as well as the skeg. I also plan to carry a roll of duct tape ... just in case! With it being so light it can be carried, rather than dragged, up the beach. Having the plywood bottom in it should help prevent a lot of punctures.
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
Peter - Since you built both the Eastport Pram and the Rachel, can you comment on their relative building difficulty and merits?
Which one was easier/harder to build?
Which Took more time?
Which one cost more to build?
Which is more functional?
Which one rows and sails better?
Which has a better load carrying capacity?
Which one fits on deck better?
Thanks,
Jack
Bella - V2620
Which one was easier/harder to build?
Which Took more time?
Which one cost more to build?
Which is more functional?
Which one rows and sails better?
Which has a better load carrying capacity?
Which one fits on deck better?
Thanks,
Jack
Bella - V2620
Jack,
The Rachel was my first stitch-and-glue trial, using old plywood off the garage ceiling, and other salvaged material, so the only cost was in epoxy and cloth. It's coated inside and out with 6oz cloth, which probably accounts for the extra weight.
It went together very easily. If I recall correctly, there was only one temporary station midships.
I made the mistake of scaling the plans down by 10%, including the beam. Turns out that's not the way to do it. Shortening it is fine, but leave the beam the same. So it's a bit unstable with two people (not much freeboard, either!) but with one person rows and tows like a charm.
I never put a sailing rig on it as I don't own a wet suit ;-) I built it originally as a tender for my Montgomery 17. Now it's the boat of choice when there's a tough or dirty job to do.
=================================================
I built the Eastport Pram full sized. I bought marine mahogany plywood for it, and followed the plans exactly. It went together VERY easily. The plans are excellent, and the design is well engineered to make the best use of stitch and glue construction.
There was no formwork to build; it was simply wired together across two saw horses using the pieces cut from the drawings. It's also available in kit form, but due to shipping costs to Western Canada I decided to cut my own pieces ... and there are quite a few of them!
I didn't like the look of the sailing rig in the plans so I copied a Sabot rig, which uses a conventional triangular mainsail with boom. It sails very well, and is quite stable with two adults under oars.
The only other thing I'd change is the centerboard handle: it protrudes too far, IMHO.
====================================================
It would not be fair to compare the two side by side as I altered the original design of the Rachel. That said, the Eastport is the better boat of the two, and certainly the prettiest. They both fit on deck nicely, although the Rachel has a little less beam, giving me a bit more room to squeeze by to get to the bow. As far as time? Hard to keep track of when you're in your bliss
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
The Rachel was my first stitch-and-glue trial, using old plywood off the garage ceiling, and other salvaged material, so the only cost was in epoxy and cloth. It's coated inside and out with 6oz cloth, which probably accounts for the extra weight.
It went together very easily. If I recall correctly, there was only one temporary station midships.
I made the mistake of scaling the plans down by 10%, including the beam. Turns out that's not the way to do it. Shortening it is fine, but leave the beam the same. So it's a bit unstable with two people (not much freeboard, either!) but with one person rows and tows like a charm.
I never put a sailing rig on it as I don't own a wet suit ;-) I built it originally as a tender for my Montgomery 17. Now it's the boat of choice when there's a tough or dirty job to do.
=================================================
I built the Eastport Pram full sized. I bought marine mahogany plywood for it, and followed the plans exactly. It went together VERY easily. The plans are excellent, and the design is well engineered to make the best use of stitch and glue construction.
There was no formwork to build; it was simply wired together across two saw horses using the pieces cut from the drawings. It's also available in kit form, but due to shipping costs to Western Canada I decided to cut my own pieces ... and there are quite a few of them!
I didn't like the look of the sailing rig in the plans so I copied a Sabot rig, which uses a conventional triangular mainsail with boom. It sails very well, and is quite stable with two adults under oars.
The only other thing I'd change is the centerboard handle: it protrudes too far, IMHO.
====================================================
It would not be fair to compare the two side by side as I altered the original design of the Rachel. That said, the Eastport is the better boat of the two, and certainly the prettiest. They both fit on deck nicely, although the Rachel has a little less beam, giving me a bit more room to squeeze by to get to the bow. As far as time? Hard to keep track of when you're in your bliss
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
Hi Peter
I agree with what you say. The origami is not the prettiest, but it has some practical charm and if stowed below deck, the Vega looks better IMO and you dont have to step around it. Another thing is that the 6" version might be a bit small for 2 persons.
If the Vega had one of these quater berth underneath the cockpit seats, the origami could be stoved there together with the sails, the guitar etc.
I\'ve looked around for a good small nesting pram design, but I havent found one. They are often 10 or 11" long and then the idea is no longer interesting.
Your black fly is very pretty. How is building compared to stich and glue or lapstrake, which I´ve done both?
Do you know any other 7 - 8" SOF pram designs prefereably with balistic nylon?
I´m looking forward to see the next step in your building proces.
I agree with what you say. The origami is not the prettiest, but it has some practical charm and if stowed below deck, the Vega looks better IMO and you dont have to step around it. Another thing is that the 6" version might be a bit small for 2 persons.
If the Vega had one of these quater berth underneath the cockpit seats, the origami could be stoved there together with the sails, the guitar etc.
I\'ve looked around for a good small nesting pram design, but I havent found one. They are often 10 or 11" long and then the idea is no longer interesting.
Your black fly is very pretty. How is building compared to stich and glue or lapstrake, which I´ve done both?
Do you know any other 7 - 8" SOF pram designs prefereably with balistic nylon?
I´m looking forward to see the next step in your building proces.
I talked about this on some list and if it was this one I'm sorry for
repeating myself. In 1987 I met a fellow that had a dingy about 8ft long
pram style that he built. He claimed she weighed 28 lbs. He picked her
up with one hand so whatever she weighed she was light. He had a sail
on her and raced her every Wednesday night when we all paid a couple
dollars to joint the race and the winner took the pot and bought a keg
of bear and treaded us all to beer. A fun event. I think she was
sheathed with 1/8 or 3/16 inch plywood. I didn't at the time know
anything much about stitch and glue but I don't think she was as she
looked to have chines etc. As best I can remember. She looked to be
pretty fragile and I don't think I'd want to leave her beating around
with ten other dingies at a dock. As light as she was it would be easy
to pick her up and set her on shore. At the time I had a dyer dink that
was known to be a pretty good sailor. He could not out sail me but
then I likely was 50 lbs lighter than him. We never raced in a strong
wind so that may have been a different story with his ballast
advantage. He designed the boat himself so I guess there are no plans
out there. I have since then thought we all want our dingies to be way
heavier than need be. I built some skin over frame kayaks for my three
grandsons 16ft long and they weighed a little over 40 lbs. I would
certainly think a dingy punt 8ft and a reasonable width could be built
to weigh less. If the so called ballistic nylon cloth were used it
would be considerably tougher than the canvas kayaks I built. My grand
sons claim to have skidded over rocks with the kayaks but I suspect the
rocks had to be shaped just right and smooth. I would plan on
carrying on the for-deck and towing depending on conditions.
I have looked some at inflatables It kind of looks like the ones
that have no transom might fit if rolled up tight in a cockpit locker.
They won't carry a big motor but put putting along with a little one is
okay with me. The cheaper ones are not made of hypalon but if kept out
of the sunlight as much as possible they should hold up ok.
Anyway I like the boats you guys have come up with.
Doug
eliassonguitars wrote:
repeating myself. In 1987 I met a fellow that had a dingy about 8ft long
pram style that he built. He claimed she weighed 28 lbs. He picked her
up with one hand so whatever she weighed she was light. He had a sail
on her and raced her every Wednesday night when we all paid a couple
dollars to joint the race and the winner took the pot and bought a keg
of bear and treaded us all to beer. A fun event. I think she was
sheathed with 1/8 or 3/16 inch plywood. I didn't at the time know
anything much about stitch and glue but I don't think she was as she
looked to have chines etc. As best I can remember. She looked to be
pretty fragile and I don't think I'd want to leave her beating around
with ten other dingies at a dock. As light as she was it would be easy
to pick her up and set her on shore. At the time I had a dyer dink that
was known to be a pretty good sailor. He could not out sail me but
then I likely was 50 lbs lighter than him. We never raced in a strong
wind so that may have been a different story with his ballast
advantage. He designed the boat himself so I guess there are no plans
out there. I have since then thought we all want our dingies to be way
heavier than need be. I built some skin over frame kayaks for my three
grandsons 16ft long and they weighed a little over 40 lbs. I would
certainly think a dingy punt 8ft and a reasonable width could be built
to weigh less. If the so called ballistic nylon cloth were used it
would be considerably tougher than the canvas kayaks I built. My grand
sons claim to have skidded over rocks with the kayaks but I suspect the
rocks had to be shaped just right and smooth.
I would plan on carrying on the for-deck and towing depending on conditions.
I have looked some at inflatables It kind of looks like the ones
that have no transom might fit if rolled up tight in a cockpit locker.
They won't carry a big motor but put putting along with a little one is
okay with me. The cheaper ones are not made of hypalon but if kept out
of the sunlight as much as possible they should hold up ok.
Anyway I like the boats you guys have come up with.
Doug
eliassonguitars wrote:
Peter - Thanks for the information. I've been debating which to build. It will have to be a winter project, and I'll have to heat the garage for the epoxy portion. I like the Eastport Pram, but was concerned about the sailing rig. My brother-in-law built one with the rig they recommend. It sailed atrociously. On the other hand, it rowed like a dream.
They added inflatable rub rails and use it as their primary lifeboat (they are cruising the Carib right now).
Thanks again for the information. Very helpful!
Jack
They added inflatable rub rails and use it as their primary lifeboat (they are cruising the Carib right now).
Thanks again for the information. Very helpful!
Jack
Hi,
The Black Fly is pretty labour-intensive, but it's all with small pieces of wood ... lots of them! But the materials costs are low so it's a trade off. It could also be covered with Ballistic Nylon, but I wanted to follow the plans first. I'll probably have to re-cover it in the future, and Ballistic Nylon is certainly a contender.
I have this book
which is a gold mine of Skin on Frame boat building, including some interesting designs.
I think any design could be adapted, using stringers and ribs instead of planking, for a skin-covered boat.Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
The Black Fly is pretty labour-intensive, but it's all with small pieces of wood ... lots of them! But the materials costs are low so it's a trade off. It could also be covered with Ballistic Nylon, but I wanted to follow the plans first. I'll probably have to re-cover it in the future, and Ballistic Nylon is certainly a contender.
I have this book
which is a gold mine of Skin on Frame boat building, including some interesting designs.
I think any design could be adapted, using stringers and ribs instead of planking, for a skin-covered boat.Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'