Teak, white oak, substitutes ?

[Ken Secor]

We installed hardwood flooring in the new house 5 years ago and had some pieces left over.

The hatchway saddle board and tiller stick were "WO" (white oak) and badly damaged/worn. The saddle board obviously a different species than the OEM teak trim boards. Further, the hatch slides were cracked and damaged and the hatch slide-lip(s) damaged as a result.

I decided to make replacement pieces out of the "BC" (Brazilian Cherry a/k/a Jatoba). The wood is twice as hard as WO and has awesome longitudinal strength. Based on me standing on a single 3-footer, spanning two 5-gallon pails, using it as a replacement stick seemed a cheap way out.

Most impressive of all - A: it's cheaper than dirt! B: it's gorgeously figured.

Unfortunately, it's hardness is partly derived from it's high silica content. Likewise, the factory finish is impervious to my orbital with 60# and had to be burned off and scraped with a torch.

The silica had my cabinet-maker friend hesitant to run the boards thru his planer and after the first time out, refused to do any more - despite the free lunch!

If anyone's interested, here's the old WO stick, and the BC replacement.

The last 3 photos show the flush-mount plate relief, how to varnish a hole and last, the grip area contour.

 

[Bilbo]

The teak was/is used because it's not prone to rot.
there are other types of lumber that could also be used such as black locust.
I have an oak tiller but it remains in cabin when not in use.

 

[Ken Secor]

Teak's a nice looking wood - as long as you don't grab/touch it - or have to pay for it !

Once it gets a few years old, it needs oiling constantly. Without sanding, the grain feels like bark. Looks nice, feels rough and in reality, weather's poorly - which is why it must be re-oiled so frequently.

Every piece of teak I owned ended up sanded and varnished, not "oiled." When it's time, steel wool it and re-varnish takes minutes. The results not only look great, but the "feel" is smooth as silk.

To me, feeling like fine furniture, trumps the "oiled" look - and the accompanying roughness oiling, over time results in.

Subjective comment? Absolutely!

 

[Bilbo]

It's fun varnishing it but after you find yourself touching up each and every exterior piece each year, it gets old. sooner or later you'll believe that you have to strip off all the old varnish and replace it. Some people replace the teak with the composite stuff Or they just leave it as plain weathered grey that doesn't rot in 30 years time in our climate. I've had some luck with the water based spar varnish. It doesn't look the same but it seems to last longer than the Poly.

 

[Ken Secor]

It always freaks me out - the thought of water based varnishes. I know it does not dissolve in water once it's cured, but I can't wrap my head around the chemistry.

But to its credit, the SYP saddle going into a room in my house had to be varnished and set in place quickly. The master carpenter said, "Let's try that water based varnish, two coats in two hours - dry and laid in place accepting traffic in three hours."

7- years later, despite very high traffic, it looks as good as the day he installed it. The stuff wears like iron.

Of course, if you day-sail on Lake Champlain, or moor in the Tampa rain-forest - temps, humidity, salt and UV's are wildly different.

Here in VT, We have two seasons: Winter, and the 4th of July.

 

[Bilbo]

Our issue here in Ohio is really that the UV will crack the varnish starting in short 1/2" cracks and then the dew in the mornings will lift it off the teak. I had about 1/2 season last year with the new varnish & the water-based showed me no such issue......so far.

You can varnish with just about any kind that you want If you can keep the sun off it and you don't bang it up. So, maybe a sunbrella cabin cover is in order.

 

[Ken Secor]

The varnish I used says," Protects against UV rays."

So far, it's still in the basement. Then again, it'll be under my tarp much of this summer and no UV's get thru that. I have a hunch five years from now it'll still be nice to look at and even nicer to feel.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Tiller caveats

The reason wooden tillers are laminated, usually out of two different woods, is to lend stiffness. I wouldn't have a solid one-piece tiller (for my H25) unless it were ash or maybe hickory (tool-handle woods). And these don't take epoxy and varnish well.

I wouldn't use teak alone if it were the last wood available. If you've ever seen dried-out teak splinter from rot you'll know why!

I have to make a new tiller for my boat as the tiller extension doesn't have a place to rest on the old one's shape. I will make this out of mahogany and ash, like the original, but with a new shape and with cheeks added on where the extension has to bolt through. I am considering including a streak of carbon-fiber cloth in the laminate to enhance stiffness.

I don't see the point of varnishing a screw hole; each one should be widened, treated liberally with epoxy, and redrilled (through only the epoxy) for best strength and longevity. If at all possible the fasteners should be rigging pins or cap screws with shanks sufficient to bear the load without relying on threads which are weaker and will cut the wood inside, where you can't see it.

Oiling an epoxied tiller does nothing but very temporarily stave off the breakdown of the epoxy; and anything that's handled this much will quickly lose coats where your hand goes. The epoxy should be sealed with UV-resistant varnish; my favorite is Z-Spar Captain's but anything providing high resistance to wear and UV rays will be fine. Don't spare the coats-- the more the better!

 

[Ken Secor]

J, my read is not: "The reason wooden tillers are laminated, usually out of two different woods, is to lend stiffness." - but rather, the reason they laminate is to permit steaming and therefore "forming" curves of thinner and more pliable boards prior to gluing - to affect the cool look we've all come to love in S-shaped tiller designs.

The OEM tillers on vintage C-22's were white oak. Made from one single board. Having just been to Burlington, VT West Marine, the pricing for laminated sticks is in the $140. range.

They're imported and twice as thick as required, feeling and looking like a tree limb married to a zebra.

Just sayin'.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Yeah Ken, shouldn't need an iron i-beam for a tiller nor a weightlifters build to steer if a sailor can find the balance between the boat's center of effort and center of lateral resistance
I've had solid tillers and never had a problem. Even with my first boat that was a real workout, between my ignorance and the boat's poor design- more me I'm sure!

 

[shazam]

I've tested several substitute for wood trim on my sailboats: 22.5' Ensign & San Juan 30. I sail/race/cruise in the heat of north Texas.
1st I tried Jatoba. I've found it very durable and rot resistant, but, was extremely heavy, tought as nail (all holes had to be pre-drilled)....and very 'purple' in color.
I've also tried other S. American cousins to Teak: Ipe and Grappa. Ipe was hard as Jatoba, nice color and similar to Teak. Grappa was equally durable, much easier to work with, but much lighter. Teak cost (in the Dallas, TX area) about $28bf....whereas Jatoba, ipe & grappe costs about $4-8/bf). A no brainer!
My choice is Grappa, but staining it a little to resemble Teak.
shazame

 

[Ken Secor]

We're on the same page.

 

[anchorclanker]

there are other types of lumber that could also be used such as black locust

Thats very interesting as we have several black locust on our land and one that I have taken down and am in the process of cutting up. I was not aware of its rot resistant properties or use on boats until reading this and doing some research. Now I have something cool I can do with it. Almost every piece of wood on my boat needs replacing and Teak is simply outrageous in cost. Now looky there, free wood.

 

[Bilbo]

It's used by farmers around here for fence posts because it is the most rot resistant stuff around. It is kinda heavy but for a bit of sailboat exterior wood...

 

[Merlin Clark]

I've tested several substitute for wood trim on my sailboats: 22.5' Ensign & San Juan 30. I sail/race/cruise in the heat of north Texas.
1st I tried Jatoba. I've found it very durable and rot resistant, but, was extremely heavy, tought as nail (all holes had to be pre-drilled)....and very 'purple' in color.
I've also tried other S. American cousins to Teak: Ipe and Grappa. Ipe was hard as Jatoba, nice color and similar to Teak. Grappa was equally durable, much easier to work with, but much lighter. Teak cost (in the Dallas, TX area) about $28bf....whereas Jatoba, ipe & grappe costs about $4-8/bf). A no brainer!
My choice is Grappa, but staining it a little to resemble Teak.
shazame

I looked up grappa and all I got was the Italian resinous wine, could this be garapa?

 

[Ken Secor]

After the fourth grappa, the wood species spelling becomes more and more blurred

 

[Merlin Clark]

 

[KingAirDriver]

What Merlinuxo said! LOL

 

[anchorclanker]

Tree identification has always eluded me... Looks like its possibly monkey brain, not black locust.

Appears to be an even harder and more interesting wood.