Talk me into (or out of) a Bene 285.

[shnool]

First I've always liked the look of the Beneteaus... from the First 235, to the 305... just liked them.

Anyway, I've been sailing my Capri 25, on our small inland lake... we have races only 9 times a season. I enjoy racing, and placed 2nd overall last year, but most of my sailing is solo (as the boat is 40 minutes from home, and a quick thing to do during the week).. and the Laminate sails/tuff luff, outboard are a real PITA.

I've sold my Capri 25... I HAD been leaning towards getting an S2 7.9, which is a popular boat on our lake (we have 5 in the club, only 3 racing this year). But the Bene 285 has caught my eye.

The downsides to our lake are... we have to trailer launch (no way around it)... and we don't have a crane, but there are services on the lake to raise a mast. I am an annual slip holder, so raise/lower mast, and trailer is a 1 time a year thing.

I owned a Capri 22 prior to my 25, and liked that boat... noted the performance of the 285 is about the same as the 22.

I guess my question is, would I be regretting getting a 285 and a slight loss in speed... Are the 285s significantly snappy, or are they really just a cruiser first and racer last.

I've dredged the interwebs (a bit) trying to find race results, to see if anyone has done well with a 285, and found only 1 that did.

We're not a hard core racing club, but the sailors we have are good. Was hoping to get a boat that gives me some creature comforts, but can still dance around the cans well.

Our average speeds are Beaufort 2-3 all summer long for the series (we've been lucky this year mostly been 3-4)... with luck pitting a small portion of our races seemingly 0. So light air races, but usually better winds on the lake at other times.

 

[cymeyer]

Based on what you wrote relative to your needs and where you sail, hard to believe that a heavy boat (cruiser) is what you want.
Not sure if you need all the amenities of a 285 or of something like a J Boat would be better.
Beneteaus are great boats, but to trailer all the time, I would personally prefer something lighter....

 

[Jackdaw]

285 are very nice boats but clearly lean towards cruiser first. The SA/D ratio is sorta low, and the wheel boats in the USA have a traveller in an awkward location. Euro tiller boats are another story. But they do typically sail to their rating.

 

[shnool]

Thats actually more of what I was looking for... was a statement towards how well they sail to their rating. I read over at SA that they didn't... which seemed odd.

My first order of business would be to relocate that traveler.

As for trailering I wouldn't do it except in for spring and out for fall (of course drag it home too)...

I wouldn't even have looked at the Bene if the cruiser attributes weren't appealing to me a bit for some overnights on the lake.. Longer term maybe pull the boat for a month or so and put in bigger water to vacation.

The biggest problem with our club races is its rare I have enough crew.... Its just usually myself and another guy (got lucky last year and had 2 others at times when winds were up, and we placed well for the season)... and that gets to be a bit much for us to fly a symmetrical. Thought a cruiser with ST winches and a furler might be less work (maybe install a sprit and get an asym and take the easy route to flying a spin - or a cruising spin with a snuffer). If it sails well to its rating, and is easier to sail 2 up, then I'm golden.

Otherwise I might pick up day laborers and buy a B25.

 

[Jackdaw]

Like any boat, sailing to its rating can depend on breeze. It never going to be a great light air boat. I have 4 friends that have one, they all love them.

If I had one I would move the traveler and convert it to tiller. It's an easy mod that can be undone as well.

There is a ton of room for a 28 footer. Sleeps two couples in private staterooms.

Just wish they made a tall rig version. My First 260 has more sail area.

 

[SoSound]

Just wish they made a tall rig version. My First 260 has more sail area.

I thought that a Liberty Cup was a tall rig version?

 

[Jackdaw]

I thought that a Liberty Cup was a tall rig version?

Pretty sure not for the 285. Or the 235 version. Maybe the 305? Not sure, but in all the cases I know it was just a marketing deal; a decal on the hull, a brass plaque inside, and maybe a lightly used spinnaker.

The shortest First I know that came with a tall rig option is the First 310. I've seen a tall rig, deep keel, with a tiller. Winner!

 

[SoSound]

...Of course at this point I can't prove any of this personally, since we no longer have our First 285... But, right from the time that we were first looking we had been told by prospective sellers that the LC version was "special", that it had a taller mast... Etc., Etc., Etc.

I did have a couple of occasions when I was gathering 'details' on our boat, or researching something, when I came across references to both a standard and a tall rig for the 285. There are specs at sailritesails.com for both configurations. I have a printout of a thread from the First 235/285 forum which lists "tall rig" numbers. And, I have copies of data sheets from Beneteau with two different sets of numbers for rig dimensions... I'll attach something here with the details that I've found.

Bottom line for the original poster: I basically learned and started sailing on a Capri 22 here in Olympia. The First 285 was the first boat that we owned. We too were impressed by the cruising amenities of the boat (but I also wanted to have something which we could still 'sail' in the light south sound winds in the summer). I've never raced sailing (technically that's 99.9% true), but in much of my life I have raced something or another (cars, skis, bicycles), but I was ready to take a break from the constant preparation and tuning of equipment for the next competition. But I do certainly appreciate 'performance' in my equipment... The Capri 22 was fun, and a great boat for us to learn on. But to our non-sailing friends I frequently described our First 285, in comparison, as the Ferrari of the two. We found that the boat was very comfortable for two people all the way up to and including two straight weeks aboard (last August, Olympia to the San Juan Islands and back). And even as novice sailors, we were never embarrassed by our pace under sail when we found ourselves in close proximity to some of the more well known race boats in our area.

As you can see, nobody agrees...
I think our genoa was a 130...
At one point, we measured our mast (overall length/height) but of course that scrap of paper is nowhere to be found...
Don't believe everything you read on the internet...

 

[shnool]

Yeah I was doing the math and comparing the Bene first 285 to a catalina 27 tall rig... but that also isn't fair, as the waterline is shorter on the 27, and it's significantly heavier, to the tune of almost 1000lbs. But the 27s sail area is much larger. Lets not forget that waterline matters, and 1 foot more of waterline, in this case nearly 2 feet, and 1000lbs heavier, makes up for the smaller sail area and then some.

I had a Capri 22, and when I wanted to race I moved to the Capri 25, mostly because my capri 22 was a wing, and the 25 is significantly faster. Also I was able to do it for only $500 more (as well as the 25 was the boat I was after originally, but I wasn't sure I could launch/rig it myself).

OK, I'll buy into the Liberty ed being a tall rig (that'd be kind of cool actually).

 

[Jackdaw]

So sound,

Something is wrong with those numbers. The only thing that that changes is the I measurement, or jib height. That means that the 'tall' measurement is for a masthead rig, which I've never seen. If there truly was two different rigs for the 285 in the USA, neither I or anyone I know has seen them.

Shnool, for sure liberty boat are just plaques and graphics. They put them on random boats, non sequential serial numbers, random hardware (winches, etc)

The 285 in any flavor is much faster than a TR cat27.

 

[SoSound]

So sound,

Something is wrong with those numbers. The only thing that that changes is the I measurement, or jib height. That means that the 'tall' measurement is for a masthead rig, which I've never seen.

That's why I love this forum! I can read and decide to take part in a thread, and learn something in the process! I especially like it when I can sit here at home and make my own 'Duh' sounds without somebody else doing it for me...

I'll confirm that our 285 was most certainly NOT a masthead rig!

I could have saved myself a lot of time by limiting my initial reply to "We had fun on ours"! But, as of this morning, I understand a little bit more about the IJPE alphabet soup... Thanks!

 

[shnool]

I NEVER EVER am the authority on anything, so no harm no foul... but I admit a tall rig would be cool.

All I do know is the 285 in the states comes in wing or deep config (looks like the deep isn't a fin, it's a fin with an end plate, OK?)...

Glad we can confirm the 285 is faster than a Catalina 27 tall Numbers are very misleading on paper. Also it must be a nice cruiser because I am not finding a LOT of people racing the 285 in sailwave results posted online... google is quite fun is it not? Those that are, aren't exactly topping their fleets.

Again, racing isn't my do-all end all, but I do like to have fun 8 weeks a year with it. The rest of the time I just like a good sailing boat, if it also has a nice fridge to keep the beer cold, and a comfy pottie for the wife, all the better!

 

[Sandy Stone]

Just to add to the confusion, let me say I once saw a 285 with a double spreader rig. No idea of rig dimensions, whether it was a Liberty Cup edition, or anything else. Almost bought it, but the owner had neglected a deck leak and the interior was shot. Too bad, nice boat on deck. And to think, now I have its big sister.