Talk about a rough day!
- Thread starter Bad Obsession
- Start date
- Status
I've had worse
Ahh but a daysail. That boat is out of control. However looks like it's built strong and heavy. Might well make it even without a pilot.
Ahh but a daysail. That boat is out of control. However looks like it's built strong and heavy. Might well make it even without a pilot.
I sailed two weeks ago in smaller stuff
than that but still blowing 50+. I sail a 39' LOA Yawl similar to the boat in the vid. I've run in 40-50 and 12' seas with 135, Main and Mizzen up and it wasn't fun, too much canvas. I've also run with reefed Main and Staysail, better but still too much. This last time we were doing 8-9 knots with just the 137 sq ft Staysail up in 40-55 knots of wind. We kept the seas 15-20 degrees off the stern with some waddling but not much. With a counter stern ya get enough yaw pressure from the waves without adding weather helm from a Mainsail. Of course, I haven't tried it with the Main triple reefed yet so maybe that will balance better. It's kinda strange that I've sailed in three gales of Force 9 or better in the 45 days I've had this boat. Just that time of year I guess.
than that but still blowing 50+. I sail a 39' LOA Yawl similar to the boat in the vid. I've run in 40-50 and 12' seas with 135, Main and Mizzen up and it wasn't fun, too much canvas. I've also run with reefed Main and Staysail, better but still too much. This last time we were doing 8-9 knots with just the 137 sq ft Staysail up in 40-55 knots of wind. We kept the seas 15-20 degrees off the stern with some waddling but not much. With a counter stern ya get enough yaw pressure from the waves without adding weather helm from a Mainsail. Of course, I haven't tried it with the Main triple reefed yet so maybe that will balance better. It's kinda strange that I've sailed in three gales of Force 9 or better in the 45 days I've had this boat. Just that time of year I guess.
On the bay?
Ross I agree. I've been sailing the bay for several years now and have been out in 30 plus more than once and have never seen those kind of waves. The bay just doesn't have the room to build up breaking rollers like those in the video. We get those short, steep seas that can build to 5-6 ft but I've never seen a roller. I've have been out on the ocean in some pretty nasty stuff. Waves you couldn't see over the tops of while standing at the helm, had breaking waves, got pooped, surfed like a mad man but never seen anything like it on the bay. Don't know if down at the bottom get's it coming in off the ocean though. Mike
Ross I agree. I've been sailing the bay for several years now and have been out in 30 plus more than once and have never seen those kind of waves. The bay just doesn't have the room to build up breaking rollers like those in the video. We get those short, steep seas that can build to 5-6 ft but I've never seen a roller. I've have been out on the ocean in some pretty nasty stuff. Waves you couldn't see over the tops of while standing at the helm, had breaking waves, got pooped, surfed like a mad man but never seen anything like it on the bay. Don't know if down at the bottom get's it coming in off the ocean though. Mike
Force equals Mass times velocity squared.
Most boats are canvased for 10-12 knots with full main and 135-150 jib. 20-24 knots is double the velocity and therefore four times the force. 40-48 is again double the velocity and again four times the force. It stands to reason that in those conditions reducing sail area to about 10 percent of the sail carried at 10-12 knots would be prudent.
Most boats are canvased for 10-12 knots with full main and 135-150 jib. 20-24 knots is double the velocity and therefore four times the force. 40-48 is again double the velocity and again four times the force. It stands to reason that in those conditions reducing sail area to about 10 percent of the sail carried at 10-12 knots would be prudent.
Ive seen close to this size on the lower Ches.
About 5 years ago off the mouth of the Potomac when a low 'bombed' over top of me. It was already blowing 25+, VERY humid, and foggy as hell. All of a sudden a great big BLUE HOLE about 3 mi across 'opened' in the sky above me and the periphery/edges of the HOLE had a ccw circulating wind wall of foam on the water; inside the 'hole' the wind dropped to approx. 10kts. Going through the 'wind wall' I met 50+ gusting well over 60+ ... and it kept up at this force (8-9) all the way up to the Pax River for the next 4+ hrs; beating(!) with just a triple reefed main + bladed staysl, and making less than 2kts.(my hull speed is ~7.6). The tide was against the wind and I (and my crew) will swear on a stack of bibles that the (steep trochoidal) waves (that werent being blown/falling over) were well in excess of 16+ ft. ... on the Ches where for the past 40 years I never experienced anything more than 5+. My boat 'taught me a lot that day'. A lot of rescue calls were answered by the CG (and Navy at Pax) during this 'event'. Further up the bay (Annapolis) the winds never got above 25kts for the entire day. Ive never seen such 'steep' waves, even on the ocean. If you look at the 'historical record' many of the early explorers, including John Smith, reported that this particular stretch of water had the worst waves they ever saw, including the open ocean .... now Im a 'believer'. I 'shoulda' turned a 180 and run-off south but nooooooo bullheaded me kept going just in front of the damn blue hole 'up' the bay. I did later stand-by for a boat that had washed up on the lee shore at Cedar Point at the mouth of the Pax until the navy arrived. The Ches at the mouth of the Potomac can be a very 'snotty BITCH' ... with lots of 'huge' standing waves that just 'stay there'.
About 5 years ago off the mouth of the Potomac when a low 'bombed' over top of me. It was already blowing 25+, VERY humid, and foggy as hell. All of a sudden a great big BLUE HOLE about 3 mi across 'opened' in the sky above me and the periphery/edges of the HOLE had a ccw circulating wind wall of foam on the water; inside the 'hole' the wind dropped to approx. 10kts. Going through the 'wind wall' I met 50+ gusting well over 60+ ... and it kept up at this force (8-9) all the way up to the Pax River for the next 4+ hrs; beating(!) with just a triple reefed main + bladed staysl, and making less than 2kts.(my hull speed is ~7.6). The tide was against the wind and I (and my crew) will swear on a stack of bibles that the (steep trochoidal) waves (that werent being blown/falling over) were well in excess of 16+ ft. ... on the Ches where for the past 40 years I never experienced anything more than 5+. My boat 'taught me a lot that day'. A lot of rescue calls were answered by the CG (and Navy at Pax) during this 'event'. Further up the bay (Annapolis) the winds never got above 25kts for the entire day. Ive never seen such 'steep' waves, even on the ocean. If you look at the 'historical record' many of the early explorers, including John Smith, reported that this particular stretch of water had the worst waves they ever saw, including the open ocean .... now Im a 'believer'. I 'shoulda' turned a 180 and run-off south but nooooooo bullheaded me kept going just in front of the damn blue hole 'up' the bay. I did later stand-by for a boat that had washed up on the lee shore at Cedar Point at the mouth of the Pax until the navy arrived. The Ches at the mouth of the Potomac can be a very 'snotty BITCH' ... with lots of 'huge' standing waves that just 'stay there'.
I'll buy that Rich
I've been at the mouth in my 24-footer and just this side of terrified. My dog has got seasick down there and even the freighter captains will tell you look out.
I've been at the mouth in my 24-footer and just this side of terrified. My dog has got seasick down there and even the freighter captains will tell you look out.
Isn't Helm Balance the Important thing
Whether you use just the main or a foresail, isn't the primary thing helm balance? With just a foresail up I'd think the increasing effort on the jib as the boat falls off would lead to further instability. You certainly have to have enough reef points in the main but I'm very reluctant to sail with jib alone. And what's this with stern to the waves? Very vulnerable with the companionway facing the incoming waves. If I couldn't control the boat any better than this one in the video, I'd first be looking at the fatique of the helmsman--they obviously aren't keeping up. Is that because the balance is so bad? If offshore and short handed, I'd be hove-to, possibly to a sea anchor, sipping a warm drink. It isn't the wind that is the problem it is the waves.
Whether you use just the main or a foresail, isn't the primary thing helm balance? With just a foresail up I'd think the increasing effort on the jib as the boat falls off would lead to further instability. You certainly have to have enough reef points in the main but I'm very reluctant to sail with jib alone. And what's this with stern to the waves? Very vulnerable with the companionway facing the incoming waves. If I couldn't control the boat any better than this one in the video, I'd first be looking at the fatique of the helmsman--they obviously aren't keeping up. Is that because the balance is so bad? If offshore and short handed, I'd be hove-to, possibly to a sea anchor, sipping a warm drink. It isn't the wind that is the problem it is the waves.
With a masthead rig
(and a backstay) you'll find the balance of the boat on jib alone will be just fine, since the "driver" of that rig is the jib. Sometimes you'll actually find that the weather helm disappears. Don't be afraid to try it. It's like practicing sailing into your slip...
(and a backstay) you'll find the balance of the boat on jib alone will be just fine, since the "driver" of that rig is the jib. Sometimes you'll actually find that the weather helm disappears. Don't be afraid to try it. It's like practicing sailing into your slip...
Stu, I beg to differ
Catalina’s with keel stepped rigs have a stronger mast support system. One point of failure, I have seen on other boats, is the T-Bolt that connects under the jib furler. I have seen this snap off and the boat de-mast while jibbing in heavy wind. The boat was hit by a puff. I believe that the rig would not have come down if the captain had chosen a reefed main. I have never read any article in Practical Sailor that I don't agree with at least in basis. I do jib around sometimes because I am lazy but to me JIBBING DOES NOT EQUAL REEFING. I think if you do the dynamic system modeling you will find the mast better supported with the main alone then the jib alone. I think this topic is very important since it is safety related. Many people are tempted to reef by simple using the jib because it is easier than reefing the main. I wish to express the possible dangers of such an action with certain rigs.
Catalina’s with keel stepped rigs have a stronger mast support system. One point of failure, I have seen on other boats, is the T-Bolt that connects under the jib furler. I have seen this snap off and the boat de-mast while jibbing in heavy wind. The boat was hit by a puff. I believe that the rig would not have come down if the captain had chosen a reefed main. I have never read any article in Practical Sailor that I don't agree with at least in basis. I do jib around sometimes because I am lazy but to me JIBBING DOES NOT EQUAL REEFING. I think if you do the dynamic system modeling you will find the mast better supported with the main alone then the jib alone. I think this topic is very important since it is safety related. Many people are tempted to reef by simple using the jib because it is easier than reefing the main. I wish to express the possible dangers of such an action with certain rigs.
From a purely theoretical viewpoint .....
The argument that the main somehow 'supports' the mast is 'just not so' ... as any modeling or analysis will show that the distributive (wind force) load imparted from the main to the mast is detractive against the 'worst case scanario' of mast failure - compressive buckling failure. The only contribution that the main's affects or benefits the mast structurally is the small contribution of vibrational 'dampening' with respect to harmonic/vibrational 'mast pumping'. The elemental structural supports for the mast are the mast itself (if keel stepped) and the rigging (connections) which hold the mast in place - thats it! All other applied forces are detractive / reactive to the mast system. The wind pressure on the mainsail is born by principally the rigging (as a reactance) which will induce a GREATER compressive load into the mast AND the side loads imparted into the mast which by reactance will tend to BEND the mast and with increased risk of compressive buckling failure .... the greater the wind load the greater the chance of the 'worse case scenario': compressive buckling failure of the mast. If the mainsail is doused, all the forces from the mainsail to the mast are removed and thus mast no longer has to support those adverse perpendicular and axial compressive loads from the mainsail. So to state that the having the mainsail 'flying' somehow 'supports the mast' structurally .... just ain't so as the mainsail imparts the adverse 'side loads' to the mast and the side loads are the most potentially destructive with respect to keeping the mast in-column/straight. The worst case failure mode of a mast is buckling failure.... the main induces side loads which enhances buckling. In contrast, the jib/genoa being only connected to the mast through a 'free moving joint' (rigging strap and/or toggle) cannot directly impart 'side-loads' therefore the jib only combination is 'safer' with respect to mast structural integrity. --------------------------- The usual concept of "center of effort' is only a 'static geometric concept' and does not take into account the dynamic forces (lift, etc.) which radically shift the ACTUAL dynamic center of effort in the sail(s) - all dependent on the SHAPE of the sails (position of maximum draft, etc.) which will actually define/locate the 'actual' CE --- not the 'geometric' CE. The designers CE is only 'really important' when the boat and the sails are perpendicular to the direction of the wind ... ONLY. Having 'just a jib/genoa' etc. flying in adverse conditions will keep the boat 'weather cocked' to the desired course, just as having just the (reefed) mainsail will keep the boat properly 'weather cocked' when attempting a course INTO the wind (or @ heaving-to). So, if a jib/genoa can be shaped/set so that the "dynamic" CE is in front of the CLR, then the boat will more easily head down wind; if the 'dynamic' CE is behind the CLR then the boat with jib-only will be more 'head to wind' ... all elemental and consistant with the 'sailing books'. However, if the jib/genoa (usually with some % of 'overlap' to the mast in a sloop) can be 'shaped' (by correct halyard tension, etc.) such that the 'dynamic' CE is near/close to the CLR the boat will 'point' to windward with ONLY the jib/genoa flying (staysails do this better than jib/genoas). hope this is not tooooo confusing. ;-)
The argument that the main somehow 'supports' the mast is 'just not so' ... as any modeling or analysis will show that the distributive (wind force) load imparted from the main to the mast is detractive against the 'worst case scanario' of mast failure - compressive buckling failure. The only contribution that the main's affects or benefits the mast structurally is the small contribution of vibrational 'dampening' with respect to harmonic/vibrational 'mast pumping'. The elemental structural supports for the mast are the mast itself (if keel stepped) and the rigging (connections) which hold the mast in place - thats it! All other applied forces are detractive / reactive to the mast system. The wind pressure on the mainsail is born by principally the rigging (as a reactance) which will induce a GREATER compressive load into the mast AND the side loads imparted into the mast which by reactance will tend to BEND the mast and with increased risk of compressive buckling failure .... the greater the wind load the greater the chance of the 'worse case scenario': compressive buckling failure of the mast. If the mainsail is doused, all the forces from the mainsail to the mast are removed and thus mast no longer has to support those adverse perpendicular and axial compressive loads from the mainsail. So to state that the having the mainsail 'flying' somehow 'supports the mast' structurally .... just ain't so as the mainsail imparts the adverse 'side loads' to the mast and the side loads are the most potentially destructive with respect to keeping the mast in-column/straight. The worst case failure mode of a mast is buckling failure.... the main induces side loads which enhances buckling. In contrast, the jib/genoa being only connected to the mast through a 'free moving joint' (rigging strap and/or toggle) cannot directly impart 'side-loads' therefore the jib only combination is 'safer' with respect to mast structural integrity. --------------------------- The usual concept of "center of effort' is only a 'static geometric concept' and does not take into account the dynamic forces (lift, etc.) which radically shift the ACTUAL dynamic center of effort in the sail(s) - all dependent on the SHAPE of the sails (position of maximum draft, etc.) which will actually define/locate the 'actual' CE --- not the 'geometric' CE. The designers CE is only 'really important' when the boat and the sails are perpendicular to the direction of the wind ... ONLY. Having 'just a jib/genoa' etc. flying in adverse conditions will keep the boat 'weather cocked' to the desired course, just as having just the (reefed) mainsail will keep the boat properly 'weather cocked' when attempting a course INTO the wind (or @ heaving-to). So, if a jib/genoa can be shaped/set so that the "dynamic" CE is in front of the CLR, then the boat will more easily head down wind; if the 'dynamic' CE is behind the CLR then the boat with jib-only will be more 'head to wind' ... all elemental and consistant with the 'sailing books'. However, if the jib/genoa (usually with some % of 'overlap' to the mast in a sloop) can be 'shaped' (by correct halyard tension, etc.) such that the 'dynamic' CE is near/close to the CLR the boat will 'point' to windward with ONLY the jib/genoa flying (staysails do this better than jib/genoas). hope this is not tooooo confusing. ;-)
Jim -- id further disagree.....
Structurally and with respect to masts of the same 'cross section' etc., masts that are keel stepped, thus tending to 'hold' the base of the mast 'solid' are LESS strong than deck stepped masts that have some degree of rotation freedom at the base. A keel stepped mast would be subject to "cantilever stress" in addition to all the other normal stresses and where cantilever stress reduces the structural load bearing by at least HALF to ONE FOURTH (at that connection). Probably the only REAL difference between the two systems are: If you lose a deck stepped mast water wont get inside the boat. If you lose a keel stepped mast you will probably have a very small mast stub sticking up onto which you can fly a jury rig .... but will be vulnerable of flooding though that 'hole'. If you break a 'shroud'/stay you have a weeee bit better chance that the keel stepped mast will stay upright .... but not that much.
Structurally and with respect to masts of the same 'cross section' etc., masts that are keel stepped, thus tending to 'hold' the base of the mast 'solid' are LESS strong than deck stepped masts that have some degree of rotation freedom at the base. A keel stepped mast would be subject to "cantilever stress" in addition to all the other normal stresses and where cantilever stress reduces the structural load bearing by at least HALF to ONE FOURTH (at that connection). Probably the only REAL difference between the two systems are: If you lose a deck stepped mast water wont get inside the boat. If you lose a keel stepped mast you will probably have a very small mast stub sticking up onto which you can fly a jury rig .... but will be vulnerable of flooding though that 'hole'. If you break a 'shroud'/stay you have a weeee bit better chance that the keel stepped mast will stay upright .... but not that much.
All of this also depends upon the boat.
My boat is a very low aspect rig and will not sail to the weather under jib only. I agree with RichH in that the main loads the mast rather than supporting it. Nobody ever put running backstays on a gaffer just because they were cute.
My boat is a very low aspect rig and will not sail to the weather under jib only. I agree with RichH in that the main loads the mast rather than supporting it. Nobody ever put running backstays on a gaffer just because they were cute.
Sail Area effect???
running downwind with a jib only you might not sense the force of the wind since there is a relatively small heeling effect....So you might be carrying way too much sail and this leads to failure.. On my boat my 160 genny has considerablly more area than my main especially a reefed main.. When it is really windy I prefer to reef the main and roll up the genny I also put a preventer on the main to control the boom. With one reeef my main probably has less than half the area as my genny. Unfornutately my boat doesn't sail very well with a reefed main alone but rides very well in 25-30 knots. We just kinda slog along at low speed.
running downwind with a jib only you might not sense the force of the wind since there is a relatively small heeling effect....So you might be carrying way too much sail and this leads to failure.. On my boat my 160 genny has considerablly more area than my main especially a reefed main.. When it is really windy I prefer to reef the main and roll up the genny I also put a preventer on the main to control the boom. With one reeef my main probably has less than half the area as my genny. Unfornutately my boat doesn't sail very well with a reefed main alone but rides very well in 25-30 knots. We just kinda slog along at low speed.
Mike and Ross, during Hurricane Isabel in the Bay
Ok before I get mobbed by the safety police ( I know, I should of not came out in those conditions) I was still a newbie and my first storm, would I do it again for fun? depends on the boat.... I was coming from Reedville going to Washington DC. Hurricane Isabel was on its way out, but the waves was still rough once I got out to Smith Point. I never seen Smith Point get pounded so hard. That is when it scared me that it was pretty dangerous to be out. I only had that week to bring home moonshadow so I took a chance. I figured once I make it into the potomac it would be calm (I was right.) Having said that, the mouth of the potomac coming onto the Bay with the currents runnig out. Made the waves break 10-20 high. We did go down once (Mast touched water.) but never capsized. It was fun in a sense and never felt in danger, plus I knew the coast guard is minutes away if we ever called. I have to admit, it was one of my most memorable moments sailing. Of course, I called it fun, once I survived it. I wrote a story about it a couple of years ago,thought I would share it. Discovering Life in MOONSHADOW (adventure in the Chesapeake Bay) It was a beautiful windy day when I first met Moon Shadow. She looked stable, agile, and confident as she approached the waypoint mark. Going on a beam reach as the winds were blowing at 15 knots, I observed that the smoke by the lighthouse had shifted and indicated a change in wind direction. I quickly tacked on a closed reach with the wind now on my starboard side. It was an astounding sight as her picturesque sails filled wide open as she flawlessly went at a perfect angle. Although being an unseasoned sailor, I commanded her naturally with precision as if competing in America's Cup, it seemed natural as if it were a calling. Somehow I knew her seaworthiness was sufficient for the Chesapeake Bay; hence, this was the day she opened my love for the sea and I eventually acquiredher from the owner. My preparations on bringing Moon Shadow home consisted of spending hours reading nautical maps and notes about sailing. Tangier Island was the place where I practiced sailing her. Coincidently, this rustic small fishing island 18 miles off the coast of Northern Neck Virginia spawned many generations of fishermen and sailors. The idea of being a "captain of my ship" was surreal at first but, for some reason, I knew the three-day passage from Tangier Island to Washington DC was going to "make me or break me". Calling sick from work to sail was irresponsible but I felt that it was needed if I were to improve my nautical skills in time for the "homecoming". At times, I practiced during bad weather to do sea trials and sometimes I just went to visit her to admire her beauty and her gorgeous classic lines. Finally, I was ready for the journey. I invited my father weeks before the trip as I thought this would be a perfect time to bond with him. Looking back in my childhood, I remember fishing with Dad and spending many summers on these same waters but I dreaded those long hours fishing; but somehow I missed the joy of just being in the water with him. The day of the trip, Moon Shadow was in pristine condition. Her sails were re-stitched by North Sails, and her hull repainted with Royal Navy blue. Sea gulls engulfed the air as if to say goodbye to a good friend. My father was excited as I was. He had not seen these parts of the Bay. My being in a boat with him as an adult seemed different. We spoke in a professional way as if we were seamen on a voyage. Going through the check list, he read: FLASHLIGHT?...Check! MAPS? ...Check! GPS?...Check! VHF?...Check! Everything seemed OK until I turned the VHF on. The news bulletin in the VHF warned of a storm approaching the Chesapeake region. I frantically mapped out wherethe storm was and knew if we stayed 100 miles east from the outer ring and the winds stayed below 45 knots, we will be all right. Part of me felt it was a bad omen to go ahead with this, but I could not wait any longer as my time table would make me miss more days of work. I was already exhausted from all the waiting and the preparations. Listening to the radio and staring at the dark sky repeatedly, I remember screaming at the top of my lungs as if to scare the raging northeasterly winds away. The news was very frustrating but my pride told me not to let this change my plans. Disobeying the weather warnings and seamanship regulations, I grabbed the tiller in earnest and gave the docks a farewell push. Determined to fulfill my prediction, I hoisted up the sails while shackles banged against the mast. We swiftly channeled thru the Great Wicomico River; in contrast, the large fishing vessels were heading in. I took notice how one fisherman blew his horn on the boat while pointing to the sky as if to tell us to go back. We waved back and smiled but quickly listened to any weather changes and looked at our map to double check our calculations. Moon Shadow tilted as the weather started to go bad. The northeasterly winds picked up as we passed Smith Point Light House. Big droplets of rain hit hard against our face. I quickly reefed the sails as I watched Smith Point get pounded with massive clashes of waves. I no longer had full control as she laid stagnant to the side. I decided to drop the main sail down and sail with the jib. The raw power of nature numbed my ambitions of being a romantic sailor. Father never said a word to me but knew we had to stabilize her if we were going to make it. I asked Father to tighten his life vest while I tied my VHF radio and flare gun kit on to me. At that point I did not want to concede defeat, but waves after waves kept blanketing the decks. Soaked to the bone, I clenched my fist and laughed in exhaustion. In disbelief, I now realized that I have crossed the threshold of my limits. I did not see another vessel out here daring to challenge this inclement weather. My heart was pounding and my adrenaline was going wild, but the winds kept howling at my sails and the waves kept slamming against the hull. What a fool I was to think this little dingy can handle such beasts! As we fiercely fought back, we tilted back up, and I realized I could not abandon her. I needed to believe in my ability, and also to trust in Mooon Shadow to bring us to safety. I handed my dad the tiller and tended the main sails. At that point, I no longer was scared of the elements. In fact I was determined to tame the seas. The raging winds began to whistle as it was making love to the seas. The shackles clanging on top of the mast that used to annoy me now started to beat in rhythmic pulse. I held her tiller as if I were holding her hands. Together, we sailed home to safety. It is hard to describe the feeling of the rite of sea passage, but I know that I took home more than a seamanship experience. I now can see how a seasoned "Old man of the Sea" can spend countless months alone. It is a lot like spending time with your significant other or learning to father a young child. In spending time with my dad in those three days of adventure, I realized how I have grown. I no longer depended on him to drive us to safety. It was time for me to come home and be a husband to my wife and a father to my kids.
Ok before I get mobbed by the safety police ( I know, I should of not came out in those conditions) I was still a newbie and my first storm, would I do it again for fun? depends on the boat.... I was coming from Reedville going to Washington DC. Hurricane Isabel was on its way out, but the waves was still rough once I got out to Smith Point. I never seen Smith Point get pounded so hard. That is when it scared me that it was pretty dangerous to be out. I only had that week to bring home moonshadow so I took a chance. I figured once I make it into the potomac it would be calm (I was right.) Having said that, the mouth of the potomac coming onto the Bay with the currents runnig out. Made the waves break 10-20 high. We did go down once (Mast touched water.) but never capsized. It was fun in a sense and never felt in danger, plus I knew the coast guard is minutes away if we ever called. I have to admit, it was one of my most memorable moments sailing. Of course, I called it fun, once I survived it. I wrote a story about it a couple of years ago,thought I would share it. Discovering Life in MOONSHADOW (adventure in the Chesapeake Bay) It was a beautiful windy day when I first met Moon Shadow. She looked stable, agile, and confident as she approached the waypoint mark. Going on a beam reach as the winds were blowing at 15 knots, I observed that the smoke by the lighthouse had shifted and indicated a change in wind direction. I quickly tacked on a closed reach with the wind now on my starboard side. It was an astounding sight as her picturesque sails filled wide open as she flawlessly went at a perfect angle. Although being an unseasoned sailor, I commanded her naturally with precision as if competing in America's Cup, it seemed natural as if it were a calling. Somehow I knew her seaworthiness was sufficient for the Chesapeake Bay; hence, this was the day she opened my love for the sea and I eventually acquiredher from the owner. My preparations on bringing Moon Shadow home consisted of spending hours reading nautical maps and notes about sailing. Tangier Island was the place where I practiced sailing her. Coincidently, this rustic small fishing island 18 miles off the coast of Northern Neck Virginia spawned many generations of fishermen and sailors. The idea of being a "captain of my ship" was surreal at first but, for some reason, I knew the three-day passage from Tangier Island to Washington DC was going to "make me or break me". Calling sick from work to sail was irresponsible but I felt that it was needed if I were to improve my nautical skills in time for the "homecoming". At times, I practiced during bad weather to do sea trials and sometimes I just went to visit her to admire her beauty and her gorgeous classic lines. Finally, I was ready for the journey. I invited my father weeks before the trip as I thought this would be a perfect time to bond with him. Looking back in my childhood, I remember fishing with Dad and spending many summers on these same waters but I dreaded those long hours fishing; but somehow I missed the joy of just being in the water with him. The day of the trip, Moon Shadow was in pristine condition. Her sails were re-stitched by North Sails, and her hull repainted with Royal Navy blue. Sea gulls engulfed the air as if to say goodbye to a good friend. My father was excited as I was. He had not seen these parts of the Bay. My being in a boat with him as an adult seemed different. We spoke in a professional way as if we were seamen on a voyage. Going through the check list, he read: FLASHLIGHT?...Check! MAPS? ...Check! GPS?...Check! VHF?...Check! Everything seemed OK until I turned the VHF on. The news bulletin in the VHF warned of a storm approaching the Chesapeake region. I frantically mapped out wherethe storm was and knew if we stayed 100 miles east from the outer ring and the winds stayed below 45 knots, we will be all right. Part of me felt it was a bad omen to go ahead with this, but I could not wait any longer as my time table would make me miss more days of work. I was already exhausted from all the waiting and the preparations. Listening to the radio and staring at the dark sky repeatedly, I remember screaming at the top of my lungs as if to scare the raging northeasterly winds away. The news was very frustrating but my pride told me not to let this change my plans. Disobeying the weather warnings and seamanship regulations, I grabbed the tiller in earnest and gave the docks a farewell push. Determined to fulfill my prediction, I hoisted up the sails while shackles banged against the mast. We swiftly channeled thru the Great Wicomico River; in contrast, the large fishing vessels were heading in. I took notice how one fisherman blew his horn on the boat while pointing to the sky as if to tell us to go back. We waved back and smiled but quickly listened to any weather changes and looked at our map to double check our calculations. Moon Shadow tilted as the weather started to go bad. The northeasterly winds picked up as we passed Smith Point Light House. Big droplets of rain hit hard against our face. I quickly reefed the sails as I watched Smith Point get pounded with massive clashes of waves. I no longer had full control as she laid stagnant to the side. I decided to drop the main sail down and sail with the jib. The raw power of nature numbed my ambitions of being a romantic sailor. Father never said a word to me but knew we had to stabilize her if we were going to make it. I asked Father to tighten his life vest while I tied my VHF radio and flare gun kit on to me. At that point I did not want to concede defeat, but waves after waves kept blanketing the decks. Soaked to the bone, I clenched my fist and laughed in exhaustion. In disbelief, I now realized that I have crossed the threshold of my limits. I did not see another vessel out here daring to challenge this inclement weather. My heart was pounding and my adrenaline was going wild, but the winds kept howling at my sails and the waves kept slamming against the hull. What a fool I was to think this little dingy can handle such beasts! As we fiercely fought back, we tilted back up, and I realized I could not abandon her. I needed to believe in my ability, and also to trust in Mooon Shadow to bring us to safety. I handed my dad the tiller and tended the main sails. At that point, I no longer was scared of the elements. In fact I was determined to tame the seas. The raging winds began to whistle as it was making love to the seas. The shackles clanging on top of the mast that used to annoy me now started to beat in rhythmic pulse. I held her tiller as if I were holding her hands. Together, we sailed home to safety. It is hard to describe the feeling of the rite of sea passage, but I know that I took home more than a seamanship experience. I now can see how a seasoned "Old man of the Sea" can spend countless months alone. It is a lot like spending time with your significant other or learning to father a young child. In spending time with my dad in those three days of adventure, I realized how I have grown. I no longer depended on him to drive us to safety. It was time for me to come home and be a husband to my wife and a father to my kids.
Nicely written
and somewhat true. I've had folks tell me I must like sailing in rough conditions and I know they're right. There's nothing like it. Nothing I've experienced comes close to matching the feelings, good and bad, of sailing through a storm and I was extreme before it became a fad. Does this mean I'll go sailing in a Hurricane? Nope, I have more respect for Mother Nature than that. Just like I won't be offshore Monday when it's forecast for 50+ and 35' combined seas. Ross, you're right it depends on the boat. carina, that also depends on the boat. Mine has mahogany boards that are 7/8's of an inch thick, two 8" boards so if the water is strong enough to cave those in, it's likely taking the entire house with it. Also, in seas like that, if you aren't hove to then ya want them on your quarter. Not dead on the stern because that'll get ya pooped hard plus you can't predict which way she'll yaw. With the waves on the quarter ya have a better chance of keeping the surf speed down and not getting pitchpoled. I'm surprised Robert hasn't posted on this thread. He's probably thinking, Jeesh, not another storm thread.
and somewhat true. I've had folks tell me I must like sailing in rough conditions and I know they're right. There's nothing like it. Nothing I've experienced comes close to matching the feelings, good and bad, of sailing through a storm and I was extreme before it became a fad. Does this mean I'll go sailing in a Hurricane? Nope, I have more respect for Mother Nature than that. Just like I won't be offshore Monday when it's forecast for 50+ and 35' combined seas. Ross, you're right it depends on the boat. carina, that also depends on the boat. Mine has mahogany boards that are 7/8's of an inch thick, two 8" boards so if the water is strong enough to cave those in, it's likely taking the entire house with it. Also, in seas like that, if you aren't hove to then ya want them on your quarter. Not dead on the stern because that'll get ya pooped hard plus you can't predict which way she'll yaw. With the waves on the quarter ya have a better chance of keeping the surf speed down and not getting pitchpoled. I'm surprised Robert hasn't posted on this thread. He's probably thinking, Jeesh, not another storm thread.
Some additional comments
1. Running downwind will always reduce the apparent wind, regardless of what sails are up. Many of you normally sail with what to me are huge jibs. Our largest is a 110! I choose to sail perhaps a tad slower, but don't have those problems with sails that can't handle a wide variety of wind conditions, plus it's usually blowin' pretty good here. For those of you with large jibs, there's the refuge of reefing it with your roller furlers. I have a simple, reliable, led-to-the-cockpit double line reefing system with two reefs on the main and a very good ProFurl LCI32 for the jib. I usually choose the jib for the weather and have only once felt a need to partially reef my headsail in ten years. I have a summer 85 jib and our winter BIG 110. Yes, there are reasons for bigger jibs, I don't deny it, but you have to work with what you have. When you run downwind with a jib set out properly, there is no "heeling motion" - the boat sails flat on its lines. If you need heeling affect to figure out you have too much sail up, then... Sure the relative wind speed is less, but you can easily calculate the true wind speed, just add the two numbers - apparent wind and boat speed. 2. Missing pins in forestay - Wow, imagine what that would have been like going upwind. Losing pins in rigging has nothing whatsoever to do with using the jib only. 3. Rig loading - I think Rich pretty well nailed it in his #33. Seems to me, applying a little logic, that if you have two sails up there's simply MORE pressure on the rig because there is more material that the wind is acting on. Caveat is the earlier post I made about masthead vs. other rig types. Lots has to do with how much area you have up, too, but the issue is not "JIBBING" vs. reefing two sails, it's the choice of sails - one or two - to use in certain conditions. Because of our small selection of jibs, we can leave one out and put one or two reefs in the main on the run. Not the issue. There are a lot of urban myths out there about sailing on one or two sails, and most of them are just that. We've heard it all here before. I'm sharing my experiences, not trying to convince you about how to use your boat: your boat, your choice. I personally think in heavy winds and heavy seas going downwind that a main has absolutely no reason to be up in any configuration. There was a post here just the other day that linked to a nice blog story of a gang sailing an Islander 30 down south from here. The biggest problem they had rounding Point Conception was that they had to go up on deck and claw their mainsail down first to reef and then all the way as the winds built. This was after they received the high wind warnings from the VHF. A friend of mine had the same problem. I simply choose to avoid that problem. Plus, it's a lot easier to gybe with just the headsail. Think about it...
1. Running downwind will always reduce the apparent wind, regardless of what sails are up. Many of you normally sail with what to me are huge jibs. Our largest is a 110! I choose to sail perhaps a tad slower, but don't have those problems with sails that can't handle a wide variety of wind conditions, plus it's usually blowin' pretty good here. For those of you with large jibs, there's the refuge of reefing it with your roller furlers. I have a simple, reliable, led-to-the-cockpit double line reefing system with two reefs on the main and a very good ProFurl LCI32 for the jib. I usually choose the jib for the weather and have only once felt a need to partially reef my headsail in ten years. I have a summer 85 jib and our winter BIG 110. Yes, there are reasons for bigger jibs, I don't deny it, but you have to work with what you have. When you run downwind with a jib set out properly, there is no "heeling motion" - the boat sails flat on its lines. If you need heeling affect to figure out you have too much sail up, then... Sure the relative wind speed is less, but you can easily calculate the true wind speed, just add the two numbers - apparent wind and boat speed. 2. Missing pins in forestay - Wow, imagine what that would have been like going upwind. Losing pins in rigging has nothing whatsoever to do with using the jib only. 3. Rig loading - I think Rich pretty well nailed it in his #33. Seems to me, applying a little logic, that if you have two sails up there's simply MORE pressure on the rig because there is more material that the wind is acting on. Caveat is the earlier post I made about masthead vs. other rig types. Lots has to do with how much area you have up, too, but the issue is not "JIBBING" vs. reefing two sails, it's the choice of sails - one or two - to use in certain conditions. Because of our small selection of jibs, we can leave one out and put one or two reefs in the main on the run. Not the issue. There are a lot of urban myths out there about sailing on one or two sails, and most of them are just that. We've heard it all here before. I'm sharing my experiences, not trying to convince you about how to use your boat: your boat, your choice. I personally think in heavy winds and heavy seas going downwind that a main has absolutely no reason to be up in any configuration. There was a post here just the other day that linked to a nice blog story of a gang sailing an Islander 30 down south from here. The biggest problem they had rounding Point Conception was that they had to go up on deck and claw their mainsail down first to reef and then all the way as the winds built. This was after they received the high wind warnings from the VHF. A friend of mine had the same problem. I simply choose to avoid that problem. Plus, it's a lot easier to gybe with just the headsail. Think about it...
I furl my 135 Genoa in anything over 35 usually
and hoist the Staysail which is only 137 sq ft. I can sail a beam reach in 40-50 with it up and make 7+ knots, depending on the seas. If the seas get too big or start breaking, it's the broad reach for me.
and hoist the Staysail which is only 137 sq ft. I can sail a beam reach in 40-50 with it up and make 7+ knots, depending on the seas. If the seas get too big or start breaking, it's the broad reach for me.
- Status