Taking on water while sailing

[Texrob]

I just bought a 1983 Hunter 27 this week. I've never owned a boat with a bunch of through hulls before, so I could use some assistance diagnosing water entering the bilge, particularly when sailing.

While sailing today we took on a fair amount of water. Enough so that it was coming out of the bilge onto the floor of the main salon when healed over. It seemed like most of the water was coming from aft, but I couldn't see it coming in through the engine area. While the boat is at the dock there is always some water in the bilge, but not enough to kick on the pump. There is a small amount coming from the stuffing box but not enough to account for the amount we where taking on while under way.

Any ideas? Thank you in advance...

Details: there is a marine head (y valve not evident yet, but may exist), central heat/air, yanmar 2gm20fv diesel, refrigerator, fresh water system, hot water

 

[rbietry]

I have a 1981 and there are several areas to look at. Under and behind the sink is a thru hull for the sink drain. Father back is the input for the engine cooling. But my first look would be all the way aft where the scuppers drain. These should be above the water line when at the dock, but are below the water line when the boat heals.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

If you get water coming in while sailing, it's not the through hulls - they are always underwater. Likely sources are the shaft stuffing box, above the waterline through hulls, rudder post stuffing box or maybe a leaky water tank cover plate.

 

[Benny17441]

Don't panic; the h27 Cherubini has a very shallow bilge and most of them can and will spill water on to the cabin sole when heeled. The boats came from factory without an automatic bilge pump because they could not fit a float switch to work adequately. The only working installations I saw incuded an electronically controlled pump wich would turn itself on every two minutes and scan for water by sensing pressure in the impeller. (if interested check out the Rule 500 GPH for about $60) The fact that when the boat is at the dock does not show an inordinate amount of water is comforting. Wher does the water come from? Most likely rain leaks through the hatches and portholes. The ice cooler drains into the bilge and the drip in the packing gland does too. Now a lot of this water gets trapped in the stringers below the sole and tends to flow into the bilge when the boat gets in motion and heels. Now you need to check the through the hull fittings, valves and hoses to make sure there are no leaks and also check the fresh water tank and water pressure system pump and hoses to make also sure there are no leaks. There is probably water in excess of 5 gallons trapped under the sole and it will trickle into the bilge when the boat gets in motion. Water in the cabin sole is a nuisance so one of those electric automatic pumps can correct that. It's hard to get old boats completely dry and as long as the cabin sole is dry and it does not smell is all I would care for. It sounds like a real nice boat, with a nice engine upgrade, A/C, refrigeration and water heater.

 

[Ed Schenck]

I've told this story so many times about a hard to find leak. Turns out it was pin holes in the muffler. You could not see the fine mist spraying back there. Then the water would congregate in some area and then show up when sailing. Nothing when the boat was flat while motoring. And nothing on port tack, only on starboard.

 

[Manny]

i get water in my bilge if my port side is pretty far under, the source is actually the bilge pump thru-hull. Even though there is a loop it can siphon water in. As well as the scupper hoses also check the rudder stuffing box as well. There is a pan under the engine that ends just before the stuffing box. Water from the stuffing box and any area behind that can run under the pan and into the bilge. The engine pan may be dry but there can be a bit of water moving below that.

 

[rardiH36]

Certainly pay attention to the Cherubini Hunter 27 specific responses. But also note Ed Schenck's suggestion of the water muffler. You say water is coming while sailing. But if there is a leak at the muffler or exhaust hose, or any of the exhaust hose clamps, then not all of the mixing elbow cooling water will get blown out the exhaust hole. And the amount leaking into the boat could be enough to fill a shallow bilge after not too much time motoring. I know because recently occurred to me. A PO had installed a muffler hose bushing ring (needed to allow fitting a smaller diameter hose than the muffler designed for) backwards. Held leak free for many years until I accidentally kicked the muffler while doing some other maintenance in the area. The errant water nicely flowed into the designed drain channel between the stern/stuffing box area to the bilge without making anything else wet. So my problem took a while to notice.

 

[cbsailor]

I had a similar problem on my previous 81 H27. The leaking did not occur every time we went out for a sail which only made searching for the source even more aggravating. We finally realized the leak only occurred when we heeled over hard while sailing to weather. On a sail with several friends aboard, I relinquished the helm, went below and opened the access port in the quarter berth. As we heeled over hard, sure enough, water flowed in around the rudder post seal. As we heeled less, the leak stopped. It may not be your leak source, but it's one of those hard to find because of the conditions required to make it happen and the opportunity to witness it while others sail the boat.

 

[Paul F]

Agree with cbsailor, the water intrusion is likely from the rudder post. The rudder post stuffing box is not sealing and allows water to overflow when the stern is lower in the water. In the slip the stern is higher and water is not coming in. It's not a hard repair - just tighten the seal. The problem is getting into the small space to make the repair.

 

[Texrob]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I keep hearing about adjusting the seal on the stuffing box and the rudder, how is this done? I pray that this can fix the issue because the water is too low to take the boat out of the water and other options are limited and expensive on my lake.

The first day of repairs started with a new head from West Marine. We installed the Jabsco Twist N Lock and so far so good. If you should decide to install this model in a H27 you will need a 90 off of the back for the waste line.

During the days preparations we discovered a leak from a small brass bolt just port and aft of the keel center line. There are two of these going thru the hull about a foot apart one in each bilge area. While inspecting the problem (messing with it) it became worse. With the boat in the water a proper repair was not possible so we used a two part putty and covered the area. The only thing I can think of that would be next to the keel in that location would be for the knot meter.? Today I will be putting a check valve on the bilge to prevent back flow after the pump shuts off and while underway.
Due to the fact that water will always be in the bilge we are thinking of running 1/8 plexiglass about 12 to 14 inches wide sealed to the lip down the port and starboard side of the opening. Our hope is to stop water from coming out on to the cabin sole while healing over.

 

[Roland5048]

I have to agree with Manny. When sailing my '77 h30 heeled hard to port, water does siphon back through the bilge pump thru-hull although the hose is looped as far up as I can get it. No water comes through on any other tack, when motoring, or sitting at the dock . Maybe an anti-siphon check valve would solve the problem. Just haven't gotten around to it, yet.
Capt. Roland
s/v Fraulein II
Tarpon Springs, Fl.

 

[rardiH36]

I have to agree with Manny. When sailing my '77 h30 heeled hard to port, water does siphon back through the bilge pump thru-hull although the hose is looped as far up as I can get it. No water comes through on any other tack, when motoring, or sitting at the dock . Maybe an anti-siphon check valve would solve the problem. Just haven't gotten around to it, yet.
Capt. Roland
s/v Fraulein II
Tarpon Springs, Fl.

Hi:

Firstly, I don't have your model Hunter Cherubini. So excuse if I'm off base with this.

How high off the water-line and how far aft is the 27's bilge pump thru-hull? On the 36, it's only a few inches below the toe rail. Burying it below the waterline when healing is pretty tough to do, but I should note that the thru-hull is also pretty far aft. If yours is low and also exits mid-ship, is it possible to raise it higher from the waterline and move it further aft?

Another question is how shallow is the 27 bilge that it fills up quickly enough to spill over? Maybe a solution?:

Upon buying my boat and being inexperienced that some water in a bilge is normal, I developed a phobia about having anything more than just a film of it in my bilge. So I added another pump with its own dedicated line and a separate thru-hull for it. Pump is a really small Rule model. No float switch for it. On the hose just upstream from the pump, but still in the bilge, I added a simple in-line shut off valve. I open it then turn on the pump. When the pump just starts to suck air instead of water, I quickly close the valve so the 1/4 gallon or so in the hose doesn't drain back into the bilge.

Adapting this arrangement to the 27 may assist maintaining the bilge water level low enough that it doesn't spill out onto the sole when healing?

On my boat, I have maintained the other two bilge pumps (each with its own dedicated hose and thru-hull) which are set up in the normal way. So if water gets too high, their water sensitive switches activate to pump out. That said, I've got a pretty deep and long bilge. So lots of room for extra plumbing.

 

[Texrob]

Update

Looks like the stuffing box is leaking faster than I thought. It is a steady drip. It runs under the engine pan an comes out the divider between the two bilge areas. The tru hull to the motor at the base is wet but I think it is from the stuffing box.

 

[Benny17441]

Oh the old wooden boats, some of which required vigorous water pumping while underway to keep them afloat. Now we see a little water in the dedicated bilge and we find that upsetting.

 

[David in Sandusky]

One last unmentioned possibility:

We had a serious leak that only appeared in 20 knot winds. Turned out it was leaky hoses from the cockpit drains to out the stern. When the boat approaches hull speed, the bow wave rises at the stern as well as the bow, submerging the cockpit drain outlets, and flooding water under the engine into the bilge, then into the cabin.

Replacing the hoses fixed the problem.