The bay where you are sailing is a popular area for weekend sailors and you can see a number of other boats in the general vicinity. You've got a fairly well equipped cruiser, with knot and depth meters, VHF, and a hand-held GPS. You don't have radar, however. Just as you tack and begin to take up an eye ball course for home -- about 12 miles away -- you see a rapidly moving fog bank headed your way. Bright sunshine soon turns to gloom and visibility drops to a few boat lengths. The wind has picked up considerably and it sure feels like its going to rain. Your significant other hands you the GPS which takes a few moments to acquire the necessary satellites. You select the waypoints to get you back to the marina. Then you start thinking about all those other boats out there that you can no longer see -- and cannot see you. As this thought crosses your mind, you pass the first navaid waypoint you selected from your GPS database and realize it is the wrong one... What would you do? (By Warren Milberg)
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I would get out my charts and determine where I am
And then I would plot a course for home avoiding the natural hazards and keeping a sharp eye out for other boats. The GPS will tell me where I am and between that and my compass will let me steer a course for port.
And then I would plot a course for home avoiding the natural hazards and keeping a sharp eye out for other boats. The GPS will tell me where I am and between that and my compass will let me steer a course for port.
Got a horn?
and hoist a radar reflector. I'm thinking that dropping the sails and motoring might make sense too.
and hoist a radar reflector. I'm thinking that dropping the sails and motoring might make sense too.
One of the things about obvious waypoints
like buoys, is that the other guys are most likely using them, too. So be careful when you get close to one, which you are most likely using it as a GPS way point. My experience has been that motorboats, always going altogether too darn fast for the conditions and lack of visibility, and most likely on autopilots, are hopping from way-point to way-point, buoy to buoy, full speed ahead, with no lookout. Conclusion: if you can get safely to where you have to go without actually physically hopping buoy to buoy, it may be safer; triangulate your fix from three different waypoints and you should know where you are without having to see each and every buoy. Seems counterintuitive, but it's saved us from getting run down a few times.
like buoys, is that the other guys are most likely using them, too. So be careful when you get close to one, which you are most likely using it as a GPS way point. My experience has been that motorboats, always going altogether too darn fast for the conditions and lack of visibility, and most likely on autopilots, are hopping from way-point to way-point, buoy to buoy, full speed ahead, with no lookout. Conclusion: if you can get safely to where you have to go without actually physically hopping buoy to buoy, it may be safer; triangulate your fix from three different waypoints and you should know where you are without having to see each and every buoy. Seems counterintuitive, but it's saved us from getting run down a few times.
Stop
In those conditions one must have a firm handle on where one is. In this scenario --we are suddenly lost. I would stop my boat and allow it to drift (safely) while I determine my precise location. I would not proceed until I KNEW where I was - that is priority #1. If I were to collide with another boat, I would rather be the vessel not under way.
In those conditions one must have a firm handle on where one is. In this scenario --we are suddenly lost. I would stop my boat and allow it to drift (safely) while I determine my precise location. I would not proceed until I KNEW where I was - that is priority #1. If I were to collide with another boat, I would rather be the vessel not under way.
John, why would you consider motoring?
With your engine off you could listen for other traffic. Let your horn warn others of your position. Plot your position on a chart every 15 minutes and confirm with your depth readings. Stay away from shipping chanels.
With your engine off you could listen for other traffic. Let your horn warn others of your position. Plot your position on a chart every 15 minutes and confirm with your depth readings. Stay away from shipping chanels.
I have a question for you all.
Under general terms a motor driven vessels has to yield the right of way to a vessel sailing under wind power alone. The question is; Does the vessel under sail still maintain its privileged status when a bank of fog rolls in totally obstructing visibility? If so how is the burden stablished under conditions of impaired visibility?
Under general terms a motor driven vessels has to yield the right of way to a vessel sailing under wind power alone. The question is; Does the vessel under sail still maintain its privileged status when a bank of fog rolls in totally obstructing visibility? If so how is the burden stablished under conditions of impaired visibility?
Yeah! What they said
Agree with the above. The one with the best lawyer has the least burden. All hands on deck as lookouts with assigned quadrants, dressed and outfitted to swim until rescued if there is a collison. All signaling devices handy, handheld VHF tethered to you, jib down if it impairs the lookout, dinghy inflated or available, all of the above seamanship recommendations, motorsailing with the engine on idle for immediate steerage control to avoid collison, and the boat ready for a 3 hour tour, a 3 hour tour. In regard to: "you pass the first navaid waypoint you selected from your GPS database and realize it is the wrong one..." there are different possible reasons. Just in case this was meant to sow some doubt in your GPS instead of a simple waypoint selection error, I would; Write down your gps coordinates on the chart and see if that makes sense with your general knowledge of the bay, whatever it was that just caused you to doubt your gps (like something you can navigate from), and your sighting of the harbor before you lost visability. Check with a second GPS if you have one to verify coordinates, I keep an old monochrome in case i lose the new one. Choose a course heading that will place you just enough away from the harbor entrance so you know which way to turn if you are still lost when you get to shallow water. If you can, call someone you trust to start a search for you if you don't check in later, go over the plan. Track your position every 10-15 minutes, it should agree with the knot meter. Your cell phone signal should be improving. Call in updates to reassure SO. Use the chart and depth meter to verify that the depth is agreeing with the gps position as you head for harbor. If there is a steep bottom contour somewhere close to your path, i would head for it to use it on the depth meter like an underwater navigational aide. If compass, depth, chart, and gps are agreeing, change the heading for a buoy to verify position, and stop away from it to listen for traffic before going for a visual and gps check. If you trust your gps, go to your slip with seamanship as per others above. Don't go into shallow water unless conditions are such that you can control the boat in a storm, prepare your anchors or head out for the night. If you're lost in deep water after about 12 miles by the knot meter, stop, call home to the babysitter if you have children, drift with a watch for alien spacecraft to take you out of this bermuda triangle, and figure it out in the morning. I am so glad we have gps now.
Agree with the above. The one with the best lawyer has the least burden. All hands on deck as lookouts with assigned quadrants, dressed and outfitted to swim until rescued if there is a collison. All signaling devices handy, handheld VHF tethered to you, jib down if it impairs the lookout, dinghy inflated or available, all of the above seamanship recommendations, motorsailing with the engine on idle for immediate steerage control to avoid collison, and the boat ready for a 3 hour tour, a 3 hour tour. In regard to: "you pass the first navaid waypoint you selected from your GPS database and realize it is the wrong one..." there are different possible reasons. Just in case this was meant to sow some doubt in your GPS instead of a simple waypoint selection error, I would; Write down your gps coordinates on the chart and see if that makes sense with your general knowledge of the bay, whatever it was that just caused you to doubt your gps (like something you can navigate from), and your sighting of the harbor before you lost visability. Check with a second GPS if you have one to verify coordinates, I keep an old monochrome in case i lose the new one. Choose a course heading that will place you just enough away from the harbor entrance so you know which way to turn if you are still lost when you get to shallow water. If you can, call someone you trust to start a search for you if you don't check in later, go over the plan. Track your position every 10-15 minutes, it should agree with the knot meter. Your cell phone signal should be improving. Call in updates to reassure SO. Use the chart and depth meter to verify that the depth is agreeing with the gps position as you head for harbor. If there is a steep bottom contour somewhere close to your path, i would head for it to use it on the depth meter like an underwater navigational aide. If compass, depth, chart, and gps are agreeing, change the heading for a buoy to verify position, and stop away from it to listen for traffic before going for a visual and gps check. If you trust your gps, go to your slip with seamanship as per others above. Don't go into shallow water unless conditions are such that you can control the boat in a storm, prepare your anchors or head out for the night. If you're lost in deep water after about 12 miles by the knot meter, stop, call home to the babysitter if you have children, drift with a watch for alien spacecraft to take you out of this bermuda triangle, and figure it out in the morning. I am so glad we have gps now.
Plop in a CD
Didn't someone post awhile back that there is a CD of fog signals available? Plop that sucker in and crank the stereo and let people think you are a BIG sailboat. When you ease the sails to drift and listen, change the track for "Vessel Not Under Command" and let people wonder just how big a boat is drifting around in the fog ... oh wait ... Sailing and Vessel Not Under Command use the same signal; "namely one prolonged followed by two short blasts." Here is the link to the Fog Signal CD:
Didn't someone post awhile back that there is a CD of fog signals available? Plop that sucker in and crank the stereo and let people think you are a BIG sailboat. When you ease the sails to drift and listen, change the track for "Vessel Not Under Command" and let people wonder just how big a boat is drifting around in the fog ... oh wait ... Sailing and Vessel Not Under Command use the same signal; "namely one prolonged followed by two short blasts." Here is the link to the Fog Signal CD:
pipes are the answer
I find that a CD of Scottish pipes are much easier to listen to than fog horn sounds. Been there, done it and it worked. Held my ground and cranked up the speakers. Other boats with the correct hi-tec gear came to see what the noise was and led us home. When we got to port, the banks were lined with people cheering and dogs barking. Good fun.
I find that a CD of Scottish pipes are much easier to listen to than fog horn sounds. Been there, done it and it worked. Held my ground and cranked up the speakers. Other boats with the correct hi-tec gear came to see what the noise was and led us home. When we got to port, the banks were lined with people cheering and dogs barking. Good fun.
Fog = little to no wind.
My experience is when the fog rolls in the wind dies. Motoring at this point is usually the only option, as current will make you drift way off course. Next and foremost, never ever rely on a GPS, this is just foolish navigation for the lazy mariner. A radar is far more useful when entering any port in the dark, fog, rain, snow. GPS is intended for secondary navigation, not primary. Dead reconing. If you can't naviate without a GPS, you don't belong on the ocean. You are now a hazzard to navigation, and yes a commercial boat just may run you down because you don't know enough to safely navigate. Shipping lanes are just that, you can't expect a ship that has 500 feet of ship in front of the Navigation Bridge to see a little boat in the fog, even with a radar, when the fog rolls in small craft get lost in what is called clutter on the radar screen.
My experience is when the fog rolls in the wind dies. Motoring at this point is usually the only option, as current will make you drift way off course. Next and foremost, never ever rely on a GPS, this is just foolish navigation for the lazy mariner. A radar is far more useful when entering any port in the dark, fog, rain, snow. GPS is intended for secondary navigation, not primary. Dead reconing. If you can't naviate without a GPS, you don't belong on the ocean. You are now a hazzard to navigation, and yes a commercial boat just may run you down because you don't know enough to safely navigate. Shipping lanes are just that, you can't expect a ship that has 500 feet of ship in front of the Navigation Bridge to see a little boat in the fog, even with a radar, when the fog rolls in small craft get lost in what is called clutter on the radar screen.
motor and charts
I would stop sailing and switch to slow motoring. I always have my charts on deck, even if I am using the GPS,I always go over the sail I am about to take on the charts be it ever so familiar as its hard to read them in a hurry and I like to keep the marker numbers in my head . I would turn on my running lights and check to see what the next bouey had for identification. look for its flashing light or listen for its horn and watch my compass like a hawk . I would use the spotlight to see the markers and check the numbers on them. I don't have a sound system on board but I think blasting it is a good idea, anything to make your where abouts known. I would keep my binoculars around my neck and keep my eyes on constant look out 360 degrees and heighten my hearing senses. I would use the horn signals at the close repeated intervals so others would know I was out there...If I found the whole thing to be too risky I would elect a very close to shore spot from the chart and slowly motor to it and stay on the hook untill things got better.....
I would stop sailing and switch to slow motoring. I always have my charts on deck, even if I am using the GPS,I always go over the sail I am about to take on the charts be it ever so familiar as its hard to read them in a hurry and I like to keep the marker numbers in my head . I would turn on my running lights and check to see what the next bouey had for identification. look for its flashing light or listen for its horn and watch my compass like a hawk . I would use the spotlight to see the markers and check the numbers on them. I don't have a sound system on board but I think blasting it is a good idea, anything to make your where abouts known. I would keep my binoculars around my neck and keep my eyes on constant look out 360 degrees and heighten my hearing senses. I would use the horn signals at the close repeated intervals so others would know I was out there...If I found the whole thing to be too risky I would elect a very close to shore spot from the chart and slowly motor to it and stay on the hook untill things got better.....
hfngotsail, your experience is a bit lacking
We ran into a fog bank near New Point Comfort with 20 knots of wind embedded in it. Fog is a result of air temperature and humidity only. Radar will do you no good if you don't know where you are. GPS will tell you where you were 10 seconds ago and if you are not going but 6 knots that is within 100 feet. As for shipping if you move into shallow water the big boys can't go there. I can travel in 6 feet of water and be completely safe from commercial traffic.
We ran into a fog bank near New Point Comfort with 20 knots of wind embedded in it. Fog is a result of air temperature and humidity only. Radar will do you no good if you don't know where you are. GPS will tell you where you were 10 seconds ago and if you are not going but 6 knots that is within 100 feet. As for shipping if you move into shallow water the big boys can't go there. I can travel in 6 feet of water and be completely safe from commercial traffic.
right of way in fog
The pecking order of right-of-way rules apply to vessels in sight of each other. At times of restricted visibility, all vessels are responsible for preventing collisions by means of proceding at a safe - that is, appropriately slow - speed, sounding the correct signals, and exercising caution.
The pecking order of right-of-way rules apply to vessels in sight of each other. At times of restricted visibility, all vessels are responsible for preventing collisions by means of proceding at a safe - that is, appropriately slow - speed, sounding the correct signals, and exercising caution.
Hold you place
This scenario should not necessarily encourage you to go ahead. Start your own fog signal - FIRST. You just found out that the GPS did not put you where you expected to be. Failure of electronic navigation should be expected. You are going to have to pilot again and be serious about it. The thing that will kill you fastest and right now is “Gethomitis”. You are a sailor. You should be very accustom to being late. So this is a good time to do that again. Get out the charts. Figure out where you are and how safe you are, and if it is safe to continue. Then, either set an anchor or navigate. Navigate means plot the course and distance and time to the next turning at a navaid and set your timer. This is why you still carry a charts, a compass and a watch. (You may still required to make fog signals if you can not make an anchorage.) If this is what you choose to do, be very ready to do nothing else until you are moored. Now, if your are anchored and waiting for the fog to clear, figure out if the GPS has a problem or if it was operator error that got you to the wrong navaid. There is no emoticon for been there, done that, lost the picture and the shirt wore out. Matt Colie - Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor
This scenario should not necessarily encourage you to go ahead. Start your own fog signal - FIRST. You just found out that the GPS did not put you where you expected to be. Failure of electronic navigation should be expected. You are going to have to pilot again and be serious about it. The thing that will kill you fastest and right now is “Gethomitis”. You are a sailor. You should be very accustom to being late. So this is a good time to do that again. Get out the charts. Figure out where you are and how safe you are, and if it is safe to continue. Then, either set an anchor or navigate. Navigate means plot the course and distance and time to the next turning at a navaid and set your timer. This is why you still carry a charts, a compass and a watch. (You may still required to make fog signals if you can not make an anchorage.) If this is what you choose to do, be very ready to do nothing else until you are moored. Now, if your are anchored and waiting for the fog to clear, figure out if the GPS has a problem or if it was operator error that got you to the wrong navaid. There is no emoticon for been there, done that, lost the picture and the shirt wore out. Matt Colie - Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor
No right of way
In a situation of fog there is no right of way. In the sceniaro presented, if the waypoint is not the correct one, use that GSP, obtain the lat and long, consult your chart and plot your course to the next navigational mark or plot it to home.
In a situation of fog there is no right of way. In the sceniaro presented, if the waypoint is not the correct one, use that GSP, obtain the lat and long, consult your chart and plot your course to the next navigational mark or plot it to home.
Standard fog procedures
First, use your horn on regular intervals (1 prolonged blast followed by 2 short blasts). Second, find your exact location. Third, begin ringing your bell on regular intervals. Fourth, use your radio to contact other boaters and find their locations, Fifth, make sure your radar reflector is in place. And last, start your engine...the extra noise will help other locate you.
First, use your horn on regular intervals (1 prolonged blast followed by 2 short blasts). Second, find your exact location. Third, begin ringing your bell on regular intervals. Fourth, use your radio to contact other boaters and find their locations, Fifth, make sure your radar reflector is in place. And last, start your engine...the extra noise will help other locate you.
gotta love all this
First, just because you have been on the water for 30 years doesn't mean you know it all. The col regs don't say anything about "working vessel" nor do the rules of the water change when the weather changes. In the case of a fishing boat, the fishing boat will have stand on (not right of way) over a sailboat if he is dragging a net. If there is an accident BOTH boats are at fault because the last rule states all parties have to do what it takes to avoid an accident. It is also true that wind doesn't blow fog away. Navigating by depth guage may work for some waters but very few. What's this about going around in circles in the fog without a GPS? Ever hear of a compass? Also, if everybody is blaring their music, who is going to hear it? Kind of brings up an image of a teacher trying to teach a bunch of kids listenning to their MP3 player. That's why the col reg rules state for sounds in intervals. Duhhhhhhhh Last but not least...if you got the electronics, use the damn things. They are the best tools and that's why they cost dollars. If they weren't the best tools, why would anybody buy them? Duhhhhhhh. Radar and GPS are 100 times better then looking at ripples in the water and wind on your ears. Please. Knuckleheads. If you don't have the expensive tools that's one thing, but to put it last on your check list is stupid.
First, just because you have been on the water for 30 years doesn't mean you know it all. The col regs don't say anything about "working vessel" nor do the rules of the water change when the weather changes. In the case of a fishing boat, the fishing boat will have stand on (not right of way) over a sailboat if he is dragging a net. If there is an accident BOTH boats are at fault because the last rule states all parties have to do what it takes to avoid an accident. It is also true that wind doesn't blow fog away. Navigating by depth guage may work for some waters but very few. What's this about going around in circles in the fog without a GPS? Ever hear of a compass? Also, if everybody is blaring their music, who is going to hear it? Kind of brings up an image of a teacher trying to teach a bunch of kids listenning to their MP3 player. That's why the col reg rules state for sounds in intervals. Duhhhhhhhh Last but not least...if you got the electronics, use the damn things. They are the best tools and that's why they cost dollars. If they weren't the best tools, why would anybody buy them? Duhhhhhhh. Radar and GPS are 100 times better then looking at ripples in the water and wind on your ears. Please. Knuckleheads. If you don't have the expensive tools that's one thing, but to put it last on your check list is stupid.
Standard fog procedures 2
I read one comment that running your engine is not good but it has been my experience that attempting to continue under sail power is not a good idea. Motoring gives you better control and steerability in close situations and a sudden increase in wind can cause a collision under sail! If you are worried about an exact GPS location...simply bring your vessel to a halt for a moment for a more exact reading. You should do this anyway becasue, as the question notes, you are off course and a correction is required that could bring you across another vessel that doesn't anticipate your change of course. So, state your location over radio and your inteded course change alerting other vessels.
I read one comment that running your engine is not good but it has been my experience that attempting to continue under sail power is not a good idea. Motoring gives you better control and steerability in close situations and a sudden increase in wind can cause a collision under sail! If you are worried about an exact GPS location...simply bring your vessel to a halt for a moment for a more exact reading. You should do this anyway becasue, as the question notes, you are off course and a correction is required that could bring you across another vessel that doesn't anticipate your change of course. So, state your location over radio and your inteded course change alerting other vessels.
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