Don, I have a quick question. I do have your book but it is at the boat. I am new to sailing (about two years). We have an O'Day 25 and I lake sail in northern MS. My family and I were sailing last week in around 15 - 17 mph wind coming from the NNE with gusts. The lake we are on is basically a big rectangle lying NE to SW. Our marina is at the most SW part of the lake. The were white caps. Normally I put up the 150% Genny but with the family (they don't like to heel as much as I do) and the weather conditions I put up the working Jib. I have only used the Jib once before in the past 18 months. I flattened the main and we were off. The boat handled great. I tried to run as much as possible on a beam reach but with the wind moving around I was more on close reach as we went across the width of the lake (around 3 miles). I also spilled the main as much as possible to keep heeling down. Here is my issue: When I was on a starboard tack and tacked the boat into the wind to go on a port tack everything went without a problem. When I was on a port tack and tacked the boat into the wind it took 2 or 3 times to get the nose turned. We went back and forth across the lake many times and I always missed the tack to go back on the starboard run but never the one to go on the port run. I rarely if ever miss a tack with the big 150. What I normally do when tacking is after the tack order is given, move the tiller over and release the Genny. It takes a while for it to sweep over. I did the same with the little jib but of course it takes less time for it to move over. Should I wait to realese the jib unitl the nose is almost dead in the wind? Why did I miss the one tack and not the other? Boat speed was very similar on both tacks. Thanks. Scott
Tacking
- Thread starter Scott R21226
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Port vs. Starboard Tack
Hi Scott, I've experienced a similar proplem on my previous boat, which had a pretty heavy lee helm (so it didn't want to go to weather under most conditions). In my case, it often had a lot to do with the direction of the waves. However, if I understood your scenario, coming from the starboard reach, with wind NNE, I'm picturing the chop hindering your tack, and helping coming off the port tack, yet your problem is on the port tack. Am I picturing it correctly? Also, I think you are probably releasing the jib too soon and bleeding off to much momentum, making your tack more difficult.
Hi Scott, I've experienced a similar proplem on my previous boat, which had a pretty heavy lee helm (so it didn't want to go to weather under most conditions). In my case, it often had a lot to do with the direction of the waves. However, if I understood your scenario, coming from the starboard reach, with wind NNE, I'm picturing the chop hindering your tack, and helping coming off the port tack, yet your problem is on the port tack. Am I picturing it correctly? Also, I think you are probably releasing the jib too soon and bleeding off to much momentum, making your tack more difficult.
No Tacky
"Should I wait to release the jib unitl the nose is almost dead in the wind????" Yes, try to backwind the jib a bit before releasing it to help move you through the eye of the wind. Regards, Arturo
"Should I wait to release the jib unitl the nose is almost dead in the wind????" Yes, try to backwind the jib a bit before releasing it to help move you through the eye of the wind. Regards, Arturo
Don't release the Jib sheet until the jib starts to pop into the fore-triangle as the boat comes about. When you put on the jib you did remember to adjust the jib cars and they are the same on both sides? What's happening with the mains'l? Is the traveller the same on both points of sail? Is your boat speed the same on both points of sail? If not you may be trimmed differently on one tack compared with the other tack.
If you are not in a hurry to release the working
jib sheet it will tow the bow around. After the main fills on the new tack, quickly release the jib sheet and trim the new working sheet. A well coordinated team can tack while never breaking the conversation
jib sheet it will tow the bow around. After the main fills on the new tack, quickly release the jib sheet and trim the new working sheet. A well coordinated team can tack while never breaking the conversation
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
differential speed on different tacks
What Tom is talking about regarding same speed on both tacks can be attributed to other things than asymetric settings on the jib tracks and traveller. Considier that if your mast is tilted slightly off to one side because one of the shrouds is set slightly longer then your boat will sail better on one tack than on the other, (because your mast is more erect and efficient on that tack) thereby increasing speed and pointing ability. So don't only watch your knotmeter (or GPS) to determine if there is different speeds on different tacks, but also watch your compass to see that you can sail as close to the wind on both tacks. You have to do this on a day when the wind direction and speed is fairly consistent. If you can point better on one tack, then rigging may be an issue as well. Check you inclinometer as well to ensure that it is similar on either tack, but generally this is less sensitive that the compass. Your best bet to check the rigging is to use a long tape measure at the top, taped to the main halyard and hoised as high as you can and cleated. Measure to each chainplate, and to each corner of the transom if you have more than one shroud set. Each pair of measure should be identical. If not, tune your mast. Regarding your tacking process, I would delay releasing the loaded sheet until your nose is through the wind.
What Tom is talking about regarding same speed on both tacks can be attributed to other things than asymetric settings on the jib tracks and traveller. Considier that if your mast is tilted slightly off to one side because one of the shrouds is set slightly longer then your boat will sail better on one tack than on the other, (because your mast is more erect and efficient on that tack) thereby increasing speed and pointing ability. So don't only watch your knotmeter (or GPS) to determine if there is different speeds on different tacks, but also watch your compass to see that you can sail as close to the wind on both tacks. You have to do this on a day when the wind direction and speed is fairly consistent. If you can point better on one tack, then rigging may be an issue as well. Check you inclinometer as well to ensure that it is similar on either tack, but generally this is less sensitive that the compass. Your best bet to check the rigging is to use a long tape measure at the top, taped to the main halyard and hoised as high as you can and cleated. Measure to each chainplate, and to each corner of the transom if you have more than one shroud set. Each pair of measure should be identical. If not, tune your mast. Regarding your tacking process, I would delay releasing the loaded sheet until your nose is through the wind.
Scott: I'm not sure why one tack works better than the other but a big part of the problem is releasing the jib sheet too early. Another common problem is tacking too fast. How fast is too fast? You have to experiment and the following is how you do it and you'll see how really simple it is. Your goal is to complete the tack in under 30 seconds and not to lose more than 1 knot of speed. The first thing you want to have is as much speed as possable. Even in light winds you want to be going as fast as you can. When you decide to tack do not touch the mainsail. Start your turn slowly and smoothly - sort of like a dance step. Lots of sailors rush through it and all they do is kill their speed and momentum. Do not touch the jib sheet at this time. Continue turning and eventually the jib will backwind and push the bow over. The idea is to use all the forces at your disposal to help you make the turn. Basically, the above is what you do and here are a few tips to help you perfect your technique. This part requires you completing a few tack (it won't take more than 4. The trick is knowing the precise moment to cut the jib. You want to hold the backwinded jib to the very last minute until it loses its power. It will tell you by "breaking" itself. You'll see the front of the sail start to FLUTTER. You want to cut the jib just before that happens so you have to practice a few times to find that point. On cutting the jib sheet. Most sailors try to unwind the sheet from the winch. That takes too much time. An easier way is to hold the sheet above the winch and simply just pull up. Try it a couple of times to get the hang of it.You can practice at the dock. If you have self tailing winches it is a little harder but it still works. During the tack you want the trimmer on the lazy sheet to take up all the slack in the jib sheet. Most times that line is laying in the water due to too much slack. The trimmer now has less line to sheet in. Do not madly sheet in. Take your time (I don't mean forever) and let the jib power up. Once you get the jib working on the new tack then adjust the main. Let me know if there is any confusion on what I'm telling you. It is easier to do it than write about it. Let us know how this works out for you ater you try it a few times.
Thanks for the Help
To All, Thanks for the advice. I was reluctant to ask such a basic question. It sounds like I was releasing the working jib to early. Mike - You bring up a good point I had not thought of. You are correct in picturing the waves except that when I was coming off the starborad tack I was close to the north shore and the waves were smaller. However when I was coming off the port tack, the waves had 15 miles to build up and they were much larger. Tom - The jib cars are stationary on the 25. The main was spilled but similar on both tacks. The traveler was the same on both tacks. Boat speed was very similar on both tacks however I don't have a knotmeter and I didn't have the GPS on. Roger - I have not noticed one tack being better able to point then the other. I have very little experince (i.e. zero) with tuning the rig. I will continue to check pointing. Is there a book you (or anyone else) would recommend on tuning the rigging? Don - I think you are right and I was releasing way to early and probably cutting the rudder to sharp to soon. I will work on what you suggested. Thanks Scott
To All, Thanks for the advice. I was reluctant to ask such a basic question. It sounds like I was releasing the working jib to early. Mike - You bring up a good point I had not thought of. You are correct in picturing the waves except that when I was coming off the starborad tack I was close to the north shore and the waves were smaller. However when I was coming off the port tack, the waves had 15 miles to build up and they were much larger. Tom - The jib cars are stationary on the 25. The main was spilled but similar on both tacks. The traveler was the same on both tacks. Boat speed was very similar on both tacks however I don't have a knotmeter and I didn't have the GPS on. Roger - I have not noticed one tack being better able to point then the other. I have very little experince (i.e. zero) with tuning the rig. I will continue to check pointing. Is there a book you (or anyone else) would recommend on tuning the rigging? Don - I think you are right and I was releasing way to early and probably cutting the rudder to sharp to soon. I will work on what you suggested. Thanks Scott
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