Tacking down wind?

[rbringle]

I am curious if any monohull sailboat skippers tack down wind. When we had a trimaran, that was always done. This past summer, we were headed down wind and I watched a similar size sailboat tack down wind in front of us and it seemed to cover more net ground over the straight line course that we were sailing. When we are dead downwind (DDW), we can wing and wing our 29' sloop. When our course is a little off DDW, the main tends to blanket the genny. Sometimes, we'll be genny only or main only (if the wind speed has picked up) when we are going downwind, but not DDW. Would we gain anything by veering a little more when we are running so that both sails are working and tack downwind?

 

[Jackdaw]

Without a spinnaker, most cruiser/displacement boats are fastest pointing straight at the destination. If that destination is DDW, sail DDW.

Boats with kites and a few very light boats will make better VMG by heating up a bit and gybing their way down.

 

[markwbird]

If I understand you correctly then , yes. When sailing downwind it's faster if you are not DDW. What you are describing is sailing in the lee (main blanketing the genny) which is slow and can be dangerous as you risk an accidental gybe. Better to sail a little off the wind with the wind coming from behind and to the side that the genny is on. We call this "heating it up". In racing you should try not to sail DDW as it is slow. Best to "tack" down wind, for better boat speed.

 

[Capt jgw]

"Gibing" down wind, yes. Wing and wing DDW can be rolly, and you have to be very careful not to back wind the main and cause an unintentional gibe, or rig a preventer. Broad reach will be faster than DDW, but not as much as on a multi. It's kind of a trade off if the longer distance at faster speed is really faster. The reach is more comfortable, and I think, more fun.

 

[JohnVTX]

Head DDW and use a spinnaker pole to push Genoa out on opposite side

 

[Jackdaw]

Mark and jgw, downwind without a kite, fastest VMG for almost ALL boats is to point straight at the mark. Watch a non-spin race and watch the winner. they will sail straight at the finish. Heating up will be faster over the water sure and feel better, but without a kite you don't make up the extra distance.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Mark and jgw, downwind without a kite, fastest VMG for almost ALL boats is to point straight at the mark. Watch a non-spin race and watch the winner. they will sail straight at the finish. Heating up will be faster over the water sure and feel better, but without a kite you don't make up the extra distance.

That's been my experience and observation as well; what JD said. However, you might be able to gain VMG over DDW using a double headsail arrangement on a course slightly higher than DDW. Some SIs allow double headsails. Set up wing on wing, then hoist a second, very light, headsail (unstayed) on the leeward side. You take no penalty for this.

 

[Benny17441]

You tack when heading up wind and jibe when heading downwind. It might be that DDW may be the fastest point of sail to destination but generally as far as pure boat speed is concerned it is not the fastest point of sail.

 

[jssailem]

BE. Ever hear of a chicken gybe?

 

[Jackdaw]

You tack when heading up wind and jibe when heading downwind. It might be that DDW may be the fastest point of sail to destination but generally as far as pure boat speed is concerned it is not the fastest point of sail.

Yes, technically a tack is when you turn the bow of your boat though the eye of the wind. A gibe is when you turn your transom through it.

That DDW was not fastest boatspeed was never the question. For most boats best boat speed happens sailing at 120 degrees to true wind. But without a spinnaker and with a destination DDW, most boats should sail DDW if they want to get their quickest.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Whether or not the boat has a folding prop might become a factor. At the slower boat speed DDW, drag from a fixed prop might then exert a higher relative effect on slowing boat speed further than when the boat is moving faster through the water on a reach. Most racers have folding props so their best VMG is made DDW straight to destination, as noted above. However, a boat with a fixed prop might actually get a better, or at least no worse, VMG with the boat moving faster through the water on the higher point of sail to more efficiently overcome the drag effect of the fixed prop, especially in light airs.

 

[BudGates]

You tack when heading up wind and jibe when heading downwind. It might be that DDW may be the fastest point of sail to destination but generally as far as pure boat speed is concerned it is not the fastest point of sail.

As Jackdaw said you are technically correct. However, making your way down wind at an angle so that the apparent wind keeps the sails pulling without stalling in order to maintain maximum speed and jibing when needed to stay on course is called "Tacking Downwind." In some cases this can produce a better VMG but not always.

 

[Kings Gambit]

BE. Ever hear of a chicken gybe?

We've had extended discussions of that maneuver. However, just to be clear b/c it's not exactly clear to me the relevance of the question in this discussion, a "chicken gybe" is a tack initiated from a low angle of sail such as a broad reach to bring the boat about without gybing. Done essentially b/c the sea conditions are perceived to be so extreme that one is "chicken" to actually gybe the boat [and risk damage to the rig]. However, if the point is to infer that one can "tack downwind" by doing a series of chicken gybes, then yeah--someone might do that.

 

[Jackdaw]

We've had extended discussions of that maneuver. However, just to be clear b/c it's not exactly clear relevance of that question in this discussion, a "chicken gybe" is a tack initiated from a low angle of sail such as a broad reach to bring the boat about without gybing. Done essentially b/c the sea conditions are perceived to be so extreme that one is "chicken" to actually gybe the boat [and risk damage to the rig].

I've always found this trick to be MORE dangerous, not less..... Like the apparent wind speed DOUBLING.

 

[Kings Gambit]

We've had extended discussions of that maneuver. However, just to be clear b/c it's not exactly clear to me the relevance of the question in this discussion, a "chicken gybe" is a tack initiated from a low angle of sail such as a broad reach to bring the boat about without gybing. Done essentially b/c the sea conditions are perceived to be so extreme that one is "chicken" to actually gybe the boat [and risk damage to the rig]. However, if the point is to infer that one can "tack downwind" by doing a series of chicken gybes, then yeah--someone might do that.

I've amended this post (#13) some, but not in a way that addresses JD's point of post #14.

 

[capta]

For longer ocean passages, I'll not sail DDW if possible. I'll come up til all sails are drawing well and ride that point of sail. It's much more comfortable with much less chance of an accidental gybe. Not having a chute, or not wanting to deploy one at sea short handed, I used to put my Yankee poled to windward and the gene to leeward with the main, for long tradewind sails. Worked like a charm. Boat sailed fast, and was steady and comfortable. On a ketch or yawl, bringing her up a bit also allows one to use a mizzen staysail, a great sail, and the mizzen.

 

[Benny17441]

For the small boats with center boards; when sailing downwind you can raise the centerboard and reduce drag. There is no pointing ability lost in doing that. This of course does not apply to boats with a ballasted swing keel which need the ballast down for stability.