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Sydney Hobart Race

Nov 8, 2010
10,846
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
It's looking more and more like Ichi Ban will take the overall win on handicap, the REAL winner of the race. The weather models had predicted that the 50 footers would be favored, and sure enough, the TP52 is leading all boats that have finished, and no boat still on the water is estimated to be in any higher than 9th place. Will be the 2nd win for the boat.
 

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
912
Oday 28 Traverse City
Seems Scallywag hit a SHARK and the thing wrapped around a rudder! They had to drop sails and stop to clear the carcass. The skipper figures it cost them 4 miles; not hard to image when your'e doing 20 knots. In time that's not a lot, but they missed the podium by 38 seconds.
the race for 3rd was FANTASTIC, 600+ miles and in the end they are crossing and covering for the podium
 

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
912
Oday 28 Traverse City
It's looking more and more like Ichi Ban will take the overall win on handicap, the REAL winner of the race. The weather models had predicted that the 50 footers would be favored, and sure enough, the TP52 is leading all boats that have finished, and no boat still on the water is estimated to be in any higher than 9th place. Will be the 2nd win for the boat.
looks like a TP52 'fest on the handicap leaderboard. Filled the podium anyway
 
Jul 5, 2005
183
Beneteau 361 Sandusky Harbor Marina
Thanks for all the commentary all, I've been following and appreciate the play-by-play. :)
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,846
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
looks like a TP52 'fest on the handicap leaderboard. Filled the podium anyway
Indeed. Before the race, they ran all the boats polars through a weather router, a computer program that uses the polars and the GRIB forecast wind data (for the area and duration of the race) to calculate who would do well, and also (and this is key) do well VS their handicap. The TP52s were the golden boys of the bunch.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,846
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
the race for 3rd was FANTASTIC, 600+ miles and in the end they are crossing and covering for the podium
Indeed. Sometime you win, sometimes you lose. There is alway much back and forth about finishing the race off the quay in Hobart... which means a 600 mile ocean race can be decided in how well you are able to sail up a river. The townies love it of course, and it is MUCH easer on the RC who finishes the boats. Some people want the finish off the Tasman Peninsula at the entrance to Storm Bay. This could be done much in the way the TrasPac is finished, with a line between a point on shore and a buoy. I doubt it will ever change, as the official race record times would be broken at the date.
 

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
912
Oday 28 Traverse City
Indeed. Sometime you win, sometimes you lose. There is alway much back and forth about finishing the race off the quay in Hobart... which means a 600 mile ocean race can be decided in how well you are able to sail up a river. The townies love it of course, and it is MUCH easer on the RC who finishes the boats. Some people want the finish off the Tasman Peninsula at the entrance to Storm Bay. This could be done much in the way the TrasPac is finished, with a line between a point on shore and a buoy. I doubt it will ever change, as the official race record times would be broken at the date.
We had a very similar race experience in Charlevoix this year. Had a great first half, fell into a hole and watched the competition edge closer. Fortunately we got moving again, and finished with a bullet. Sailor girl had it right in her commentary, LOTS of activity for a boat not going anywhere, but consistent attention and work is required to get the boat going again.

re: Sydney-Hobart, I suspect the same thing, it will never change. It is now and always a part of the challenge; beating the Derwent, and that is fine as everyone needs to transition the same territory. Some comments in tide had me thinking though, if you are coming into the river at the wrong time, that could really spell disaster.
 
Jan 1, 2006
4,702
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
The sail up the Derwent River has been a problem in multiple renditions of this race that I am aware of. It seems to be unfair to sail 600 miles and then lose position on a fluklely approach up a river. I don't think this is something ratings can handle. Yeah, I get that all boats have the same challenge, but not the same thing happens to each along the way. Tides change, winds change etc. And I think it totally screws up overall winner competition.
We have a regatta that has attracted up to 130 boats (Yeah I know that's a Thursday PM on Minnitonka) but ours is a Regatta type event. And the competitors are spread out over the course and experience different races. I've argued with the principals in the race that it shouldn't be run for the satisfaction of those competing for the overall trophy. It is meaningless.
 

Ted

.
Jan 26, 2005
1,172
C&C 110 Bay Shore, Long Island, NY
Sometimes, you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.
 
May 17, 2004
2,408
Beneteau Oceanis 37 LE Havre de Grace
We have a regatta that has attracted up to 130 boats (Yeah I know that's a Thursday PM on Minnitonka) but ours is a Regatta type event. And the competitors are spread out over the course and experience different races. I've argued with the principals in the race that it shouldn't be run for the satisfaction of those competing for the overall trophy. It is meaningless.
You lost me here. Any distance race will have boats spread across the course. If the wind fills on the left and you’re on the right, well, that’s sailing. No way to avoid those kinds of differences, especially in a handicapped race. Are you saying the course of your regatta puts the boats in dissimilar places beyond just that norm?
 
Jan 1, 2006
4,702
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
Yes! I’m saying that boats that sail the same course at different times sail a different race. Their results aren’t comparable.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
10,846
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
The sail up the Derwent River has been a problem in multiple renditions of this race that I am aware of. It seems to be unfair to sail 600 miles and then lose position on a fluklely approach up a river. I don't think this is something ratings can handle. Yeah, I get that all boats have the same challenge, but not the same thing happens to each along the way. Tides change, winds change etc. And I think it totally screws up overall winner competition.
We have a regatta that has attracted up to 130 boats (Yeah I know that's a Thursday PM on Minnitonka) but ours is a Regatta type event. And the competitors are spread out over the course and experience different races. I've argued with the principals in the race that it shouldn't be run for the satisfaction of those competing for the overall trophy. It is meaningless.
More help needed... even after your clarification I have no idea what point you are trying to make in the 2nd paragraph!
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,846
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Here is my thoughts...

Generally I'm pretty ok with a twist in the ending of a 600nm ocean race. In particular one like the S-H, which is it basically a straight rhumbline race with the wind on the hip. If a wideass boat like Comanche can build up 30nm lead because of her reaching capability, but get passed in the end in lighter air by a skinny boat (WOII) then thats OK. It also helps that when the wind fills in in Storm Bay or the river, it usually does so from the shore, which is more fair.

The only thing that makes it less-than-fair is current and/or tide. I have no problem with a boat parking for a while, but getting blown backwards is just wrong. At least it was a flood this time!

The Harvest Moon Regatta used to finish by the YC in Port A, well up and inside the 1/2 mile breakwall that created the cut into the port. 2 years ago the race finished after a thunderstorm, and the wind died and the rain created a 4 knot current out of the port. Boats where NOT ABLE to make way in the cut and everyone gathered and park. Was a real shitshow. They moved the finish to outside in the bay.
 
Jan 1, 2006
4,702
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
More help needed... even after your clarification I have no idea what point you are trying to make in the 2nd paragraph!
I almost lost myself too. With regard to our local regatta, we had several years of very light wind and large parts of the fleet didn't get scored because they timed out. In one year we saw a precipitous drop in entries due to that. The management of the race and the RC held that shortening the race would mess up the overall results. So they were willing to see half the fleet run out of time so that two entrants could claim this dubious prize. And the regatta suffered a blow it has not recovered from. John Lockwood, a well known and winning sailor, used to advise us to take care of the middle of the fleet and you will have a successful regatta. I think it was good advice.
In the light of day there may not be much of a connection to the Sydney/Hobart race except that as RC I would want all the entrants to sail in as close to the same race as possible.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,846
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I almost lost myself too. With regard to our local regatta, we had several years of very light wind and large parts of the fleet didn't get scored because they timed out. In one year we saw a precipitous drop in entries due to that. The management of the race and the RC held that shortening the race would mess up the overall results. So they were willing to see half the fleet run out of time so that two entrants could claim this dubious prize. And the regatta suffered a blow it has not recovered from. John Lockwood, a well known and winning sailor, used to advise us to take care of the middle of the fleet and you will have a successful regatta. I think it was good advice.
In the light of day there may not be much of a connection to the Sydney/Hobart race except that as RC I would want all the entrants to sail in as close to the same race as possible.
Ah gotcha now.

Yes a terrible setup when a boat will skip the race because they look at the forecast and know they will TLE. Thats crappy race managment.

RC/OCs have to do at least one of the following to make distance races attractive:
Minimum LOA and/or rating
RC has ability to shorten course
No TLE

The AIS/WYC Around the Islands race does not have #1 or #2, but uses #3, no LTE. This 66 mile race start Saturday at 11AM, and most good boats are finishing around sunrise the next day. One light year we were sitting at the rooftop bar at the Bayfield Inn at about 3PM after finishing at breakfast, putting the boat away and a good nap. We looked out onto the water, we had the view below. A 30 foot cruiser type was ghosting into the general area of the finish line. It occurred to us that is was STILL RACING, and we all got up and clapped and cheered at it crossed the line and took its own time. They were DFL, but that is WAY better then TLE, DNF, or DNC.

Screenshot 2019-12-31 11.22.59.png
 
Jan 1, 2006
4,702
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
I absolutey agree DFL is so much better than TLE or DNF. Crews and skippers do a lot of prep even for these local races. Not to mention expense and many times travel. To not even get a score is just a bitter pill to swallow. And you don't even get to look at results and analyze them. :banghead:
 
Feb 26, 2004
21,003
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Yes! I’m saying that boats that sail the same course at different times sail a different race. Their results aren’t comparable.
The obvious answer to this dilemma is the ubiquitous method of TIME AND SPACE TRAVEL.
In this scenario, only one boat at a time needs to ever be on the course. He/she finishes, then the next boat gets to sail in exactly the same conditions, and could even exactly match the first boat's course, tack for tack.
Of course, PHRF would still apply. :)
This means I could go out sailing/racing on, say, a Tuesday, and compete evenly with those dudes who can only go out on weekends.
Only downside would be missing the "fun" at the marks, but maybe they'd let at least two or three boats share the same time slot.