Switching Masts To Get Roller Furling?

[Sail123]

I have two 1976 32' Clipper Marine Sailboats. One is an aft cabin ketch, the other is a sloop. The sloop is the parts donation boat for the other nicer one.

The Aft Cabin model has a standard mast, while the sloop has a taller mast and a roller Furling. Taller by 2.5 feet apx.

My goal is to get the R F moved to the other, nicer boat, that does not have a R F. The R F is a heavy duty Harkin, something like pictured here.

I believe all the SS rigging would transfer over switching masts, but you never know for sure till you try. They are the same model year, but slightly different in design.

Would it be easier to shorten the R F ?

 

[Joe]

Measure both rigs, then compare. Don't assume just because they are the same year and hull length that every thing else will match.

I think it would be more logical to simply shorten the foil on the RF unit to fit the lower aspect ketch rig.... You can find installation instructions for your particular RF unit on the Harken website... The instructions will show you how to adjust the length of the RF unit to fit your headstay.

Changing out the mast to the taller one will add a completely new set of issues.

 

[kloudie1]

Measure the headstay, Gary.. The mast on the ketch rig may be further forward (?) to keep the sail plan balanced?? As Joe said, it is relatively easy to shorten the Harken .. Shortening the headstay that the Harken is on by retaining the bottom turnbuckle and using a Norseman or other compression fitting on top is relatively easy as well.

 

[DougM]

why not just use the existingshorter headstay and shorten the headfoil on the Harken furler? It seems logical that would avoid some measurement headaches. Otherwise considering the age of the boat, it may be a good time to fabricate a whole new headstay. The only problem there is out of pocket expense whichwe all like to minimize.

 

[Maine Sail]

As others have said don't switch mast adjust the furler to fit the boat. A ketch and a sloop can have very different rigs, even on the same model boat, because the masts are usually in different locations on the boat.

Because of this the rest of your standing rigging will not likely line up and may not be sized correctly for the loads. Mast step heights may be different, standing rigging lengths, pin holes and the standing rigging may not even be the same set up in terms of lowers, intermediates etc. etc....

Cutting the foil and re-terminating with a mechanical fitting is far easier and should take a couple of hours at best...

 

[Sail123]

why not just use the existingshorter headstay and shorten the headfoil on the Harken furler? It seems logical that would avoid some measurement headaches. Otherwise considering the age of the boat, it may be a good time to fabricate a whole new headstay. The only problem there is out of pocket expense whichwe all like to minimize.

The rigging was replaced in 2000 and still looks pretty good. No kinks. Do not know the age of the RF assembly.

There is a part of me that thinks bigger is better. We all fall into that trap. Who has not biggie sized their meal in the drive thru? Lol

Having two boats of the same manufacturer and year, but one has the tall rig option (that costs $400 more as an upgrade in 1976) why not move stuff about to take advantage of that?

The PO says sail it first, and you will be happy. How you going to keep them down on the farm after they have seen Paris?

I want to take the best stuff off the two boats, and make a better or best boat possible. We could all agree the RF should be installed, but some of you say walk away from the 10% taller mast? I am really not sure I want to do that.

The tall rig is a shoal keel and the regular rig isn a fin keel. Seems to me with my limited experience in these things, the tall rig would work fine on a taller keel. The draft on the shoal is 2.5 feet. The draft on the fin aft cabin is 3.8 feet.

I will measure the distance from the mast cathedral to the headstay connection point on the bow. If they are the same, and the position of the other side support cables are the same, and the cabin height is the same, it should all swap easily?

I am willing to spend whatever it takes to make this switch a safe and sound upgrade for the aft cabin sailboat.

I have sailed the tall rig, it is pretty fast, and described by dock onlookers as fast. I do not want to loose that 10% mast height if it means I will be sailing a calmer yacht. I love the feeling of a good wind, and a sailboat heeling in the whitecaps on my small lake. Wonderful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vB3Tq74Gbc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Joe]

We can give you an opinion on the advisability of redesigning your yacht's rig if you like, however, that wasn't your original question.

You made a case for moving the sloop's mast and rigging to facilitate changing the RF unit from one boat to the other. At the end you asked:

Would it be easier to shorten the R F ?

Everyone said that shortening the RF unit would be much easier and make more sense.

I wouldn't make any major modifications to the ketch without sailing her first to determine if they are needed in the first place. But hey, it's your boat/boats.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Don't swap the masts ...

It sound's like you are going to do what you want, you're just looking for confirmation again .... The comments you've gotten aren't really the confirmation you are looking for, though.

Just an opinion ... I kind of like the sloop rigged ship better. The aft cockpit on a 30' boat always looks odd to me. I always like those dark blue hulls, so maybe that's why I like it better, but the shear line and the bow overhang has more appeal to me on the sloop. If it were me, I wouldn't butcher the sloop to bastardize the ketch.

Your obsession with the taller mast makes me think of an affliction that us sailors usually attribute to boaters who believe that excessively long boats with exceedingly high horsepower motors and open muffler pipes make up for certain other performance "shortcomings".

 

[Sail123]

It sound's like you are going to do what you want, you're just looking for confirmation again .... The comments you've gotten aren't really the confirmation you are looking for, though.

Just an opinion ... I kind of like the sloop rigged ship better. The aft cockpit on a 30' boat always looks odd to me. I always like those dark blue hulls, so maybe that's why I like it better, but the shear line and the bow overhang has more appeal to me on the sloop. If it were me, I wouldn't butcher the sloop to bastardize the ketch.

Your obsession with the taller mast makes me think of an affliction that us sailors usually attribute to boaters who believe that excessively long boats with exceedingly high horsepower motors and open muffler pipes make up for certain other performance "shortcomings".

I looked at your profile, you have done a lot of upgrades to your sailboat.

It almost seems like the RF and the mast are a pair of right and left shoes. They work together now, on the same make of boat. Below deck and helm steering are the only real differences except the taller mast should really be on a fin keel, and switching masts does that.

The sloop design does have some advantages, mostly a larger cockpit. The problem with this sloop is a PO did a lot of modifications to the boat that are not to my taste. Removed diesel engine and put on a kicker plate on the back. Redid walls in main cabin with floor laminate. To bring it back to what i would like is a huge money hole in the water.

Personal preference, I prefer the looks of an aft cabin sailboat and I also prefer a ketch to a sloop. My lake has umpteen sloops of all shapes and sizes, but only one aft cabin ketch, mine. Unique and different is good sometimes.

The small penis reference does what exactly? I also drive an F550 pickup and ride a V8 motorcycle if that fuels any lingering doubts in your mind. Lol. I am putting in curtains of you guys are window peepers.

 

[Maine Sail]

Gary,

The reason the spar is shorter on the ketch is because, well, it is a ketch. If you were comparing two sloops one built as a tall and one built as a short mast then the conversion could work if all else was built to handle the loads of the taller spar.

If it was a sloop compared to a ketch, same hull, it would have a taller spar but you have two spars with a ketch thus a lot more weight aloft a change in COE, RM and sail plan to contend with above water. The hull was designed and matched to the rig with a certain amount of shall we say "balance" and most all ketches, of a similar model in sloop, have shorter main spars to give the boat proper sailing attributes. As mentioned the spars are not always in the same location on a ketch as they are with a sloop, same with a cutter.

Here's a Cape Dory 30 ketch drawn by Carl Arlberg.

And the Cape Dory 30

Note the mast position....

You may also have sail issues to contend with because you'll have a tall mast but still need the shorter boom on the ketch thus your existing sails would not be full hoist....

First things first is to measure your J dimension on both boats.......

 

[Sail123]

Thank you.

Here is the two sailboats models, google images, not exactly to scale, but pretty close.

I will put them both in the water side by side and do measurements.

I will sail them both in the same winds and see how they compare.

Then decide what gets switched.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Now you're talking! You should be thinking about building a fleet for research and development. Is the CM mould available? You could start a revival and go into business!

 

[Sail123]

Met with Mike of http://www.selectsail.com/ today. Mike and I decided give her a season just as she is, and if I want to do minor or radical changes later, we have all winter.

She splashes Sunday, knock on wood!

Boat that is coming out of the water, is also pictured in background.

Mike is a great guy, give him a call for all your sailboat needs in Eastern Nebraska.

Mike and another guy crawled all over my two boats for an hour figuring out the best course of action.

Thanks again Mike!