Swiss Kiwi's vs. NZ Kiwi's

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BRUCE CUTCLIFFE

RULE CHANGE OVERDUE

Derek: I agree with your comments. Perhaps Team New Zealand's loss in this America's Cup (and they will lose)will cause sufficient concern so that those in command will see that there is a return to the spirit of the deed-of-gift providing for at least competition between nations. Unfortunately, Switzerland's eventual victory will be diminished by its Kiwi crew (together with citizens of other nations)and although New Zealand will argue it was really Kiwi v. Kiwi, that simply diminishes the entire spirit and intent of the Cup. I do not know if the original deed-of-gift called for the design and construction of the hull, together will sail construction and related equipment, to be restricted to competing nations. Perhaps it is unrealistic with today's expense of putting a syndicate together and obtaining the necessary funding. However, I certainly believe that for the Cup to retain any sembelence of its original intent, it will be necessary to at the very least to limit crew to citizens, or permanent residents, of the competing nations. I must admit that the 2nd race was match racing at its best, but I suspect the average viewer was more interested in the competition between teacher and pupil as opposed to the so-called race between Team New Zealand and "Switzerland". Anything less than crew members all from opposing countries and you end up with what we are experiencing in this competition. Perhaps someone can enlighten me, but I suspect we (i.e., U.S.A.), and in particular Dennis Connor and company, contributed in no small part to what the America's cup has been reduced to today; some great match racing but "full of sound and fury signifying nothing"! There may be one positive outcome in the eventual Switzerland win (and the fat lady is on stage); that being the United States may have a shot at getting the Cup back. That is, unless we end up racing the Kiwi's! :) Best regards, Bruce C.
 
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Jeff

Not a historian but

as I recall from the early 12 meter days that the crew and a specific percentage of the hardware, sails and design come from the country where the boat is flagged. This started to be whitteled away at because of branches of companies being found overseas. The spirit quickly was eroded. Remember that there used to be two challenge series. The defender was picked by the New York Yacht Club and the challenger through the LV series. It has become a totally commercialized series of little interest to me.
 
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Mark Wieber

Quarterbacks get the glory:)

Lets see, I could be a grinder or shore support, or I could be the helmsman of a definite contender and ( quite possibly ) win the most prestigius cup in yacht racing. Oh, plus I could make a ton of money and have my name become a household word like Joe Montana or Jeff Gordon. I don't blame the Kiwi's for being angry. If Dickson and Holmberg showed up in four years with a Japanese sponser and kept the cup out of it's rightful home again, I would be raising the roof. But, if I was Coutts, I would have chosen to ride the dragon. Life is short. There is no rule against it. And oh my God the Swiss team is amazing. I agree with 'rule change', but for now it is not really about Country or dollars. It is simply the best sailing I have ever seen. My advice is to stay clear of the politics and enjoy the spectacle. Change the rules at the proper time. Racing is often about creative interpretation of the rules. The joke is there are two kinds of racers. Cheaters, and loosers.
 
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Jim Anzalone

This race is GREAT!!!

The TV coverage is outstanding! This is the best America's Cup I have seen so far. I heard some say "what the f is going on back there". GREAT! It's like being there!
 
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on record

here's one

So, the swiss appear to be ready to take the cup...but where exactly would they like to take it to. As geographical borders would have it, the Swiss are surrounded by land...doesn't that seem a little strange to anyone else, and aside for that notion, Alinghi is full of a Kiwi crew anyway. So in essence the Kiwis are racing against the Kiwis to take the cup from the Kiwis and ultimately will give it to a land locked country... What is up with that? Can someone please enlighten me...
 
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Tom

Bob N. True home of the AC Cup?!?

Belongs off England and the "Cowes" or Second true home is off Sandy Hook NJ. That was the first Challenge race area. ...... But possibly the MOST true home is as we all know Newport ! My Vote goes for Sandy Hook NJ, just outside of NY...;-) But as far as San Diego.....Blech !!. That was one of the worse memories of the AC in modern history - That was an embarrasment to American's with all the squabling and Catamarans defense.
 
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Tom

On the record, this has been discussed before

The "deed" says that the race must be held on the ocean or "arm of the ocean" So I heard this "land locked" nation would have it somewhere on the Med. Probably off the coast of france. At least the Airfare is less expensive for me than to NZ!
 
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Tom

A little more Info on Nationalities and AC cup

Interesting reading. Take a look at the link below to see some history on this.
 
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Todd Alt

Enjoy the race....but something seems wrong.

I really love watching the America's cup race - always have. However, it seems silly to even pretend that a syndicate represents a single country. This kind of racing has very little to do with national pride and everything to do with money and technology. Maybe at one time sailors on a given boat were citizens of the country/syndicate that they were representing, but it hasn't been that way since I have have been watching the cup races. It almost seems that the cup is not "won" but "purchased" by whomever choses to spend the most money. I don't know if this means that the race is less of a race, but it just seems foolish to worry about where the cup is housed from time to time.
 
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Daktoa Jim Russell

Good Point Todd

Good point Todd: Maybe it is now time for the location to be "bid" in a similar manner that decides where the olympics are to be held.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Good Idea Jim.

Jim: That's a good idea. Add a little more graft to the procedure<g>. You do remember what happened at the Salt Lake games, don't you?
 
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Dakota Jim Russell

Indeed Steve <grin>

So this is any better . . . .? <grin>
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Correct?

sorta if you screw them, they can screw me..... I doubt if there is a best way. If they just changed the basic rules that the boat needed to be mfg in the originating country, has equipment mfg in that country and all of the crew were citizens....... Hell, they are going to do whatever they want, why worry about it?<g>
 
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Bob

Rhetorical Question

If you had to pick one, which would it be: a. Boat, crew, equipment, development all to come from the same country, strictly enforced, with ho-hum races; or b. Conditions as they are now, with the closest, most exciting races ever. Just a thought...
 
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Scott

Time for a Rule and Venue Change!

This Americas Cup, although providing some of the most exciting racing ever, has also been the most damaging to the cup's credibility. The Kiwi Kommittee has made a mockery of the idea of officiating by trying to make the racing conditions as adventagous to their boat's characteristics as possible. If the wind isn't going to be high enough for the HULA to be effective, well they just won't start the race! As the Alinghi boat does sprints down the course and runs circles around the committee boat, Team NZ signals their reluctance by sitting there, dead in the water, with a tarp over their cockpit. It is becoming a sad, disgusting display that can be easily interpreted as an entire nation, unwilling to give up their fleeting fame, holding the entire sailing world hostage for just a few more days. Or is the committee hoping that the morale of Alinghi will be broken or by some sheer act of will, the skills of TNZ will improve by nautical osmosis from sitting on their bobbing boat? Somebody please tell Mr. Bennett that the wind blows on both boats! The conditions that will effect TNZ will also effect Alinghi. Start the Race! And next cup, let's have an international committee!
 
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Tim McCarty

I always thought....

that regatta races took place in just about any kind of weather conditions short of gale force winds, but, as with this campaign, I have been proven wrong. You can still get a decent race in in 7 knots of wind. Hell, it adds another element to the race. How do these boats handle light winds. Frustrating for sure, when I turn on the telly and watch race 2 over, and over, and over again.
 
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Mike Terry

The AC isn't broke, so don't fix it!

The America's cup competition has ALWAYS been a contest run by and for the super-rich. This contest has always been a source of trickle-down technical benefits even all the way to local working boats. The original crew of the original America included a bunch of immigrants, so why complain about a new group of a half-dozen "Swiss"? The defender/challenger series (started in the 70s?) is the best change to come along, but if Dennis and crew hadn't allowed it, the cup would still reside, safely, at the NYYC. Until then, the defender could CHOOSE the challenger (including a less worthy one) if there was a "problem". This era was also when the technology-source rules were weakened (for the better IMHO). Let the rich race (I'll even throw in my 5 bucks) so I can get the technology on my boat... in a decade or so!
 
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Mark

Talk about "windging " Poms

Funny isn't it how everyone is getting a little upset by the Kiwis changeing the rules to suit their yacht. Ha! I can remember when we tore the cup off its mantel over there and brought it home to Fremantle Australia. Every day of "that" series you bastards changed the rules to suit your yacht. I think this saying came from over there. "Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander" (nothing like a bit of fun to get the blood racing)
 
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dj

Ah, here is another sporting event promoting. . .

Ah, here is another sporting event promoting good cheer among countries.
 
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