Swing Keel Therapy

[Viesail]

Hey folks,

I've got a Hunter 22 that has been having trouble sailing into the wind. I figured it had something to do with the swing keel not fully lowering.

Last year I replaced the nylon bushing as the pin was loose in it from wear. Turns out the loose pin was intentional as the PO did a sloppy job centering the hole for his replacement bushing to fit in. The pin would have been on angle (higher on port/lower on starboard), so he must have drilled out a new 1/2" hole for the pin so that it could rest straight. Result, straight pin, but loose keel.

When I got a replacement bushing made, I quickly realized the situation, and hoped the keel being slightly angled would make little difference in the aerodynamics (I was told by a marine specialist that a H22 is like a camper not a racer, should have little effect but for the tiller). I was making these repairs on a trailer and had very restricted access to the area. A year later and the performance has gotten worse and worse.

Last week a had her hauled out, and it appears that the keel is only dropping halfway. I dropped out the keel and brought it to a guy to bore out a new centered hole, and fabricate a slightly bigger bushing and new pin to fit in new centered hole. Not sure if I'm doing the right thing here. If I glass in a new bushing and pin, making the rotation point where the pin rests on the brackets, is that a problem? I see in the forums some indication that the OEM configuration was an outer bushing sleeve that the inner bushing would rotate in, making the pin static in the brackets? But I see threads where it appears guys are glassing in the pins just like I'm thinking of doing? I'm super confused, meanwhile, hemorrhaging money at the boat yard.

Thanks all,

Viesail

 

[Kermit]

Hopefully Crazy Dave Condon will see this post and offer his sage advice.

 

[inarathree]

First of all I am assuming that you are working with a mid-80s H22 and not the newer model.

Replacing the bushing in the keel was your best course of action, to get the keel centered both horizontally and vertically. Typically the bushing is then epoxied in place. It is usually not as wide as the keel, so you should have 1/4 to 1/2 inch on each side (if memory serves) to fill in with epoxy (no glass needed). After that sets, drill a hole in the epoxy for the pin, through the bushing and out the other side. The keel should rotate freely on the pin. The pin just sets in the mounting bracket, so I assume that the pin could rotate also (although i don't know if it actually does). I don't know of anyone who epoxies or glasses the mounting brackets in place. It just usually well coated with 5200 or the like.

when reinstalling the keel make sure you install some (for lack of a better term) washers between the keel and mounting bracket. I used the plastic ones. They will keep the keel from sliding back and forth on the pin.

HTH.

 

[Chasemixon]

I had to replace my centerboard keel, back in July, ~$1000 for the new one, and the only thing I would add or at least highlight from inarathree is make sure the keel rotates freely on the pin... I spent several trips under my boat bringing the keel up and pushing it back down because it was a pretty tight fit... after working it up and down the first couple of months it did ok after that.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Inarathree and Chasemixon both gave you the best advice to follow. I will defere to their responses and thank you both for helping this fellow.

I am not well versed with the older Hunter 22 but if like other boats to include the older style Catalina 22, I do know the basic construction.

In the future, it is always helpful in a situation like this a picture would be most helpful as you will get good response but the advice already given is good advice.

crazy dave

 

[Larry D Calander]

Anybody know any Hunter mechs or marina familiar with the H26.
In the Ft Myers area?

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Larry;

What are you trying to do? You can email me via the forum and send me what it is that you are looking to get done along with your phone number so I can give you a call next week. I know the boat all too well.

crazy dave condon

 

[Larry D Calander]

Larry;

What are you trying to do? You can email me via the forum and send me what it is that you are looking to get done along with your phone number so I can give you a call next week. I know the boat all too well.

crazy dave condon

Dave

I thought the keel was just hanging up. Raise on lift to replace line.
Found keel hanging by line. Bracket is completely gone.
Bought in May been working on to clean up since November.
Boat had been sitting for awhile.

Larry. 651 4912570

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Take a photo of the centerboard bracket which the centerboard is held into place on. I call this a centerboard vs. keel. Keel basically is weighted ballast and in this case the water is the ballast. You will need to take the centerboard and housing out to see what is exactly going on. Any difficulty removing, just wiggle on the centerboard and pull down. As for the housing bracket, it is stainless steel but maybe a weld has gone bad or one of the delrin rollers. Who knows until that housing is out.

 

[inarathree]

I believe that you can find the schematics of the bracket on this site. I know I used it when i had two new ones fabricated. If you can't find it let me know, i am sure i have it archived on some DVD. It will take me a couple days to find it though.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

thank you for helping Inathree. I would be suspicious that the bracket is gone. Itwill have to come off to see what the problem is which will require the boat to be lifted.

 

[inarathree]

If you were just to assemble the keel, pin and two brackets, there is nothing that keeps the brackets from sliding off the pin. So I would suspect a similar situation as to when I got my H22. The corrosion on one of the mounting brackets was so bad that it needed replacement. The bracket on the other side, was missing, where it should be were the two #8 bolts that were corroded through (read in half), and the only thing that was keeping water out of the cabin. The keel was also destroyed (but that is another story).

Long story short, I found a schematic here on SBO or somewhere, took that in to a local marine metal shop (lucky we have a lot of marine shops in Tampa), who fabricated two new brackets out of marine stainless. I installed with my new keel (with brass bushing) and pin, and away i sailed.

 

[Larry D Calander]

Swing keel

Take a photo of the centerboard bracket which the centerboard is held into place on. I call this a centerboard vs. keel. Keel basically is weighted ballast and in this case the water is the ballast. You will need to take the centerboard and housing out to see what is exactly going on. Any difficulty removing, just wiggle on the centerboard and pull down. As for the housing bracket, it is stainless steel but maybe a weld has gone bad or one of the delrin rollers. Who knows until that housing is out.

Dave
Center board bracket . ordered one from Hunter yesterday, they found drawings. Im taking out
Of water Thursday to go in for bottom paint job. I'll crawl under and get a picture then.
I have center board between saw horses now. Pin was in center rusted on both ends.
While on lift was only able to look under and see starboard side of bracket housing.
Nothing there.
Larry

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

If there was no bracket, then the centerboard would have been dangling which has me confused. Photos would be helpful.

 

[Larry D Calander]

Dave Center board bracket . ordered one from Hunter yesterday, they found drawings. Im taking out Of water Thursday to go in for bottom paint job. I'll crawl under and get a picture then. I have center board between saw horses now. Pin was in center rusted on both ends. While on lift was only able to look under and see starboard side of bracket housing. Nothing there. Larry

Dave
I hope these pics come through. As you ca see no bracket. The bolt is completely gone.

Larry

 

[Larry D Calander]

If there was no bracket, then the centerboard would have been dangling which has me confused. Photos would be helpful.

Dave

Board was hanging when I put on lift and let outhaul line out. I knew boat needs work when I bought it. Just didn't check
As was in water and couldn't lower centerboard. I was also afraid the line would break cause it was frayed. So had a good south wind
Sailed across Charlotte harbor with jib to Cape Coral let it sit at dock for summer. Started the project this fall to get cruise ready.
Been a big job, with some surprises.

Larry

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

If there is no stainless steel bracket, that is a new one on me as someone either forgot to put it back on or it came off. Is there a large bolt under the comepression post covers or do you see a hole where a bolt would go thru.

 

[Larry D Calander]

If there is no stainless steel bracket, that is a new one on me as someone either forgot to put it back on or it came off. Is there a large bolt under the comepression post covers or do you see a hole where a bolt would go thru.

Dave
After removing cover and scraping some caulk the bolt is gone. My thoughts are the pin holding center board on rusted.
What was left I got out of centerboard. Someone must of removed the bolt whether it was attached to bracket or not and
Sealed hole. The boat had been sitting at a dock in Charlotte Harbor for 4 years. Up haul line was chafed pretty bad so I
Didn't run center board down figured to replace line when I got it home. It sat for the summer at my dock in south Fl been
working on since Nov. Currently out of water getting bottom painted. Hunter found drawings so they are making me a new
Bracket.hope to have it sailing again mid Jan. Although I feel I got a good deal on boat, there are a few things I should
Not have taken for granted. I will repair good as new. There won't be much I haven't repaired, replaced, cleaned, painted,
or adjusted. Sail On

Larry in Cape Coral Fl

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Larry;

I am not sure if you purchased that boat or had someone work on it last but there is no way that centerboard bracket fell out after what you reported. If purchased recently, I would go back on the PO to see if he will pay for it unless you signed a contract buying as is. If it was a yard, I would file an insurance claim if you can do an investigation into the matter. You may not have a chance but the idea of publicity about a poor job might motivate them. Sorry my friend but someone really screwed up. That bracket which I know it very well did not either rust out nor fall out paticuraly since you found no bolt.

If you need help putting back in a new one, advise and I will be glad to help.

 

[Larry D Calander]

Dave
Thanks. Private seller as-is my mistake not fully inspecting boat . However Hunter should ship mid-jan.
I don't anticipate trouble installing, as all hardware is included. Can't believe how heavy this CB is.
Larry