Swing keel questions

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Jul 19, 2010
15
Oday 23 King Harbor
My pendant line is broken, i will have to have someone dive and try to replace it. I just got it from D&R. Question is: does the keel/centerboard swing up and down freely when you are sailing upwind, i seem to be sliding a bit close hauled 0r close reaching. not even sure if the thing is down. i understand it weighs 1200 lbs. but mainly want to know if the water makes it bob , or once its down its down until you raise it.
 
Sep 20, 2006
367
Oday 20 Seneca Lake
once it's down it should stay down. i sail from a mooring and drop it when i get to deeper water. i usually have to turn into the wind to take the pressure off for it to drop all the way.
 
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
My understanding is that if the swing keel is not locked down there is only a danger if you are knocked down - then it may swing up hard, causing damage, plus once up you will no longer be self righting.
 
May 22, 2004
77
Oday 23 Bullock's Cove, RI
Don't worry

You are correct the swing keel does not "lock" down. I have a 1982 O'day 23 and have a love hate relationship with the centre-board. Most of the time its fine but wehen it gets stuck up then it can be a pain.

ANyway the centre-board does not weigh 1200 lbs - it weighs about 60 lbs.

It stays down by gravity.

It is attached to the keel by asingle pivot pin which is forward.

I would not sorry about the board coming up - if the seas and weather are that bad you will have other worries.

To fix the new line you will need to put a small line down from the top and then pull the new line up. In my boat the centre-board line comes into the coakcpit but there are other designs depending on the age of your boat. A diver will be able to attach the new line to the board and then feed the line into the boat using the smaller line you dropped down.

Its relatively easy - much easier on the hard but certainly achievable in the water

Good luck and look through the archives for additional comments on this subject.
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
My understanding is that if the swing keel is not locked down there is only a danger if you are knocked down - then it may swing up hard, causing damage, plus once up you will no longer be self righting.
Ken,
The O'Day sailboats came in full keel, fin keel, wing keel, and keel/centerboards. I really don't know much about the swing keels except that they were quite common on the old Venture MacGregors, Catalinas, and Chrysler sailboats. The keel on my boat weighs 800 lbs and I'm not quite sure exactly what my fiberglass centerboard weighs. It might weigh about 50 or 60 lbs. I never thought about weighing it when I had out of my boat a few years ago, but these centerboards can be raised with a regular braid pendant line whereas the swing keels are heavier and require a cable and winch. With that said though, I wouldn't want my centerboard locked down because there would be more chance of it getting damaged by grounding out on something than the boat capsizing. As it is now, if my board drags the bottom it will swing up. Usually I can actually hear it dragging the bottom and that's a pretty good indication that I'm entering shallow water and I should tack and get out of there.
I have a tip up rudder that is locked in the down position when I'm sailing. One day during a race, I let a friend steer my boat while I manned the sheets. He went into shallow water and my rudder blade grounded out. The pressure on the pendant line attached to my tiller was so great that it split my tiller in two. When you hit bottom, sometimes somethings got to give.
Joe
 
Aug 20, 2010
28
ODay 222 South Lake Tahoe
I knew there was something that kinda bugged me about the rudder on my O'Day 222...just never could take the time to think about it.

Then someone pointed it out to me...how could I miss *that*!

Whats wrong with this picture...(I swear I didn't do it, LOL)
 

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Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
I knew there was something that kinda bugged me about the rudder on my O'Day 222...just never could take the time to think about it.

Then someone pointed it out to me...how could I miss *that*!

Whats wrong with this picture...(I swear I didn't do it, LOL)
Hi Michelle!
I can see in the pic that your tiller is above that stern pulpit lifeline. The tiller needs to be as low as it can go. It should be sitting on a bolt on the rudder head. All the slack needs to be pulled out of the rudder pendant line and cleated off in that self rescue clam cleat. Also, there should be a 3/16"X 12" Bungee cord attached to this pendant line and looped around the second bolt under the tiller. The Bungee is put there to tighten the pendant line and keep it centered when the blade tips up. Without this tension, the line will get caught between the rudder and the inside of the rudder head. When that happens, you need to reach down and get the line straightened out so you can get the rudder blade to go down. Sound familiar?
 
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Aug 20, 2010
28
ODay 222 South Lake Tahoe
Hi Michelle!
I can see in the pic that your tiller is above that stern pulpit lifeline. The tiller needs to be as low as it can go. I should be sitting on a bolt on the rudder head. All the slack needs to be pulled out of the rudder pendant line and cleated off in that self rescue clam cleat. Also, there should be a 3/16"X 12" Bungee cord attached to this pendant line and looped around the second bolt under the tiller. The Bungee is put there to tighten the pendant line and keep it centered when the blade tips up. Without this tension, the line will get caught between the rudder and the inside of the rudder head. When that happens, you need to reach down and get the line straightened out so you can get the rudder blade to go down. Sound familiar?
Hi Joe,
haven't had any problems with rudder tipping up...I keep slack in that line b/c I like to be able to pull tiller up to move to other side.
The tiller is actually above that stern lifeline...

The actual problem with the rudder is that someone bolted it on backwards to the metal rudder head. See the notches in the back? And the thin edge is facing forward, thicker edge is facing aft.

Hi-larious, when I look at it now. I am assuming that the original bolt holes in the rudder are worn out or busted or something, and instead of buying a new rudder ($500+), they just turned it around and re-used it! Won't know until I take it all apart. Not sure if I can fill in the holes in the rudder and re-drill. There's a lot of pressure on the rudder blade sometimes.

Not sure about the bungee thing...do you have a pic? I am tempted sometimes to get rid of that stupid line, but really, I need it in case the rudder blade decides to pop up when sailing 8kts (just kidding).

I'll let you know what I find under the head plate...

:p
 
Sep 25, 2008
992
Oday 25 Gibraltar
Looks to me like the tiller is below the lifeline. What am i missing?

Rich
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Hi Joe,
haven't had any problems with rudder tipping up...I keep slack in that line b/c I like to be able to pull tiller up to move to other side.
The tiller is actually above that stern lifeline...

The actual problem with the rudder is that someone bolted it on backwards to the metal rudder head. See the notches in the back? And the thin edge is facing forward, thicker edge is facing aft.

Hi-larious, when I look at it now. I am assuming that the original bolt holes in the rudder are worn out or busted or something, and instead of buying a new rudder ($500+), they just turned it around and re-used it! Won't know until I take it all apart. Not sure if I can fill in the holes in the rudder and re-drill. There's a lot of pressure on the rudder blade sometimes.

Not sure about the bungee thing...do you have a pic? I am tempted sometimes to get rid of that stupid line, but really, I need it in case the rudder blade decides to pop up when sailing 8kts (just kidding).

I'll let you know what I find under the head plate...

:p
I didn't even notice that Michelle! I wonder why they did that to the rudder blade? Michelle. Just take the rudder off the boat and place it on something like a picnic table so you can work on it.
Remove the pivot bolt and the rudder blade. Then slide the blade back in the right way. Insert the bolt again and check and see if the blade moves freely up and down in the metal case. When the blade is completely down, the flat spot on the upper bout of the rudder blade should be up against a Teak block inside the rudder head. You're going to have to break the habit of raising the tiller when you tack. I know. I have a friend who likes to do that too, but the truth of the matter is, you can't do that with these tip up rudders. You stand a pretty good chance of breaking the clam cleat under the tiller, the pendant line, or the tiller itself.
The PO probably had a problem with the pendant line getting caught in between the rudder blade and the metal case. It's a pure pain in the butt to have to reach down and straighten it out. Been there, done that many times. I'm not going to guarantee you that if you install the 3/16" Bungee cord to the pendant line and the second bolt under the tiller on the head, that the problem will disappear. I had to remove one of the casing plates and shave the blocks down a little to get it to close the gap a little and get the case to fit a shade tighter to the upper bout of the rudder blade. I took it through a trial or error type thing while working on it on the table until I finally got it so the line won't get caught. Today it works great! I only need to replace the Bungee every couple of years. They stretch out and lose their elasticity after a period of time. If the pendant line is worn and needs replacing, now is the time to do it. Theres a small plastic cap on the side of the blade in the area where the pendant line enters the blade. Just pop that cap and remove the figure eight knot in the line and replace the line.
My rudder has a few souped up modifications that I did to it many years ago. The tiller came off an O'Day 25 and it fits over the rudder head via two stainless steel plates. I had to make some stops to hold my tiller up. Also, because my tiller is wider than the stock tiller that came with my rudder, I had to raise my rudder head by lowering the pintles.
I have another pendant line that holds my rudder blade in the up position for when I leave my boat at the mooring. It gets pretty shallow at low tide on the river where I moor my boat. I've always launched my boat with the rudder on the transom, blade up, and the tiller tied off to center. So the rudder hold up line comes in handy on my boat. I'm telling you all this so you don't get confused when you see the pics of it. There isn't another one like it anywhere. My boat is a mongrel. It has more O'Day 25 parts in it than O'Day 222 parts. :D

OK. All you need is some 3/16" bungee cord, and some small stainless steel wire "C" clamps. They have a special tool to crimp them on, but you really don't need it. A pair of channel locks or heavy duty pliers will work for squeezing the crimps. The bungee cord wants to be about 12" long, from the end to the end of the loop. You'll want to crimp the loop after your get it around the bolt, though. Just measure 18" on the pendant line from where it exits the bottom of the rudder, and crimp the bungee to the pendant line. Have it so that the line and bungee are going in the same direction just like in the picture. Take a coat hanger or piece of wire and fish it down behind that Teak block in the rudder head and hook the Bungee cord and the pendant line to it and pull it up. There are two bolts under the tiller. The tiller wants to rest on the first bolt and the pendant line wants to go over the second bolt. The bungee also wants to be looped around that second bolt and crimped to itself. In other words, make the loop in the bungee after you get it around that bolt. Don't go by the picture of my rudder because it's different than yours. That's about it. If you have any problems let me know and I'll help you work them out. You can also email me if you like. sailtrinkka1986@verizon.net I go on overnight cruises a couple of times a week, but I can get back to you in a day or so if you have any questions. Good luck and let me know how you make out.
Joe
P.S. If the winds are steady and not too strong, try to get used to steering while sitting on one side during tacks instead of moving to the high side. When the wind picks up, walk around the tiller or step over it instead of lifting it.
 

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Aug 20, 2010
28
ODay 222 South Lake Tahoe
Maybe not...

I didn't even notice that Michelle! I wonder why they did that to the rudder blade? Michelle. Just take the rudder off the boat and place it on something like a picnic table so you can work on it.
Remove the pivot bolt and the rudder blade. Then slide the blade back in the right way. Insert the bolt again and check and see if the blade moves freely up and down in the metal case. When the blade is completely down, the flat spot on the upper bout of the rudder blade should be up against a Teak block inside the rudder head. You're going to have to break the habit of raising the tiller when you tack. I know. I have a friend who likes to do that too, but the truth of the matter is, you can't do that with these tip up rudders. You stand a pretty good chance of breaking the clam cleat under the tiller, the pendant line, or the tiller itself.
Joe
P.S. If the winds are steady and not too strong, try to get used to steering while sitting on one side during tacks instead of moving to the high side. When the wind picks up, walk around the tiller or step over it instead of lifting it.
Okay, looking at your pic's and the drawing you posted, my rudder is bolted on the same way as yours. That little flared out part under the rudder head is facing same way as yours. I don't know. But it does seem to be bolted on lower than it should be judging from all that white paint that shows.

It's ususally pretty windy when I sail the boat, so like to have the most ballast on high side :) Also, like to stand to see where I'm heading when getting up to mooring or to dock (I'm short..) so like to pull till up so I's can See! LOL

It sounds like more pain than it's worth having this swing up rudder. I'm used to fixed rudders, and staying out of the shallows, haha.

Anyway, when I haul boat out for season, I'll see what's going on with the rudder blade. Maybe it is in there correctly, more or less.

Cheers!
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Okay, looking at your pic's and the drawing you posted, my rudder is bolted on the same way as yours. That little flared out part under the rudder head is facing same way as yours. I don't know. But it does seem to be bolted on lower than it should be judging from all that white paint that shows.

It's ususally pretty windy when I sail the boat, so like to have the most ballast on high side :) Also, like to stand to see where I'm heading when getting up to mooring or to dock (I'm short..) so like to pull till up so I's can See! LOL

It sounds like more pain than it's worth having this swing up rudder. I'm used to fixed rudders, and staying out of the shallows, haha.

Anyway, when I haul boat out for season, I'll see what's going on with the rudder blade. Maybe it is in there correctly, more or less.

Cheers!
I agree with you. Tip up rudders can be a pain. I very seldom ever ground out my rudder blade until yesterday when I went aground out near the Spar Islands of Mount Hope Bay in a light wind. I was happy that I could raise my centerboard and the rudder blade and use my outboard to back out of there. The tide was coming back up,--but still, the heat out there on the water was unbearable.
I like to stand up too when I sail. Perhaps you can change your tiller out to a more up swept tiller. I prefer a straight tiller myself. Anyway, if you get that rudder straightened out to where it tips up when you ground out, you're going to have to break away from raising the tiller when you tack. Where you are a little short to see over the cabin, and you like to stand and steer your boat, you would probably love the "Hula hoop" that I have attached to my stern rail for bracing and holding on it. It's funny but every time I get up from that seat in the cockpit, Penelope moves right into it. :D
 

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