Swing Keel Dropped. Cause?

[Ward H]

I sold my Newport 17 a week ago. The buyer wrote me the check, said to let it clear and I could sign over the title then. He arranged for the marina to haul, power wash the bottom and sit it on the trailer during the week. We got together yesterday and I helped him stow things away, did the paperwork and off he went.

He e-mailed me last night to say the front end of the keel dropped down while he was towing it home. He asked some quesitons about how it should work, be attached and how it could have dropped. Also asked if I sailed it this way.

I think it would have been impossible to raise up and down with the lifting line if it was like this while in the water and I did raise and lower it while showing it to a few people.

The marina has a very good reputation and I think if they spotted this, which they would have had to if the keel dropped while in the water, they would have said something.

The buyer says the hinge bolt appears to be intack in the keel trunk but he has not removed the bolt yet.

I checked the bolt in May by supporting the keel, taking out the bolt and putting it back. It showed no wear. I sailed the boat many times since then, raising and lowering the keel as needed.

The only thing I can think of is that while in the salt water the SS bolt and iron keel had a disimilar metal reaction allowing the bolt to wear almost to breaking. Then he hit a bump and the bolt broke.

What do you guys think?

 

[finding41]

SS doesn't break that easy.
I bet the nut came off and the bolt just slid out in transit. The new owner must be looking at the wrong bolt.

 

[Sumner]

Do you know for sure the bolt broke. Possibly the area in the keel around the bolt gave way and the bolt is still in the boat like he said.

When the keel is down in the water there is a lot of material directly above the bolt and also the keel isn't as heavy on the bolt in the water. On the trailer the keel has swung up 90 degrees and now on the keels I've seen there is less material above the bolt, especially if the keel has worn out in that area,

Sum

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[Ray Bowles]

Ward, Can you get better pictures of the keel, keel housing and the pivot bolt or remains of the bolt? Those will probably contain the answer to the failure. It should not be a major repair since the keel was restrained when it failed.
Ray

 

[CalebD]

That swing keel/center board looks fairly heavy from the photo. Often the control line for these is wire rope. Wire rope can and does fray, creating meat hooks. If the control line is plain line (rope) then it could chafe fairly easily in the center board trunk.
Your boat spent the summer in salt water where barnacles grow. They are sharp and nasty.
The control line (whether wire or rope) could give way as could the fitting used to attach the line to the swing keel/center board.
Of course, the control line itself could have come un-cleated and allowed the board to drop.
These are the reasons I can think of a center board dropping while being pulled in a trailer, which is why you should always put a 2x4 or bigger under the centerboard if the trailer will not support it.
I hope that you and your N17's new owner can work this out.

 

[finding41]

If you look at the picture closely you can see the pivot hole is intact.. So I think the bolt fell out. Unless the bolt wasn't SS or a very low grade of SS. If there is such a thing..
Maybe ask the new O to remove what he thinks is the pivot bolt...
Maybe he isn't telling the whole story. Was he inside with a wrench?
Reading your original post again has me questioning how it was removed from the water. Did they use slings and the crane? They may have lifted on the front of the keel and moved a all ready loose bolt looser... They wouldn't have noticed if it didn't drop right away.

 

[Benny17441]

It seems the bolt was recently inspected but not the keel itself. I think all we could do at this time is speculate but this problem has a rather simple solution and that is to examine the keel and the bolt assembly. It seems that either the keel eye around the bolt failed or the bolt itself failed. The only way that both could be intact is if the bolt slipped out or was removed. A visual inspection can determine the cause. If the buyer is willing to share pictures of the keel's pivot point area and of the bolt then perhaps we migh be able to offer something.

 

[centerline]

I agree with the following post.... this is probably the case and this situation is greatly magnified when an owner moors his boat (in the water) with the swing keel in the retracted position. over time, the metal will definitely erode, but in the water and retracted, it erodes the metal a lot quicker towards the edge of the keel and will eventually find its freedom. Centerline

Do you know for sure the bolt broke. Possibly the area in the keel around the bolt gave way and the bolt is still in the boat like he said.

When the keel is down in the water there is a lot of material directly above the bolt and also the keel isn't as heavy on the bolt in the water. On the trailer the keel has swung up 90 degrees and now on the keels I've seen there is less material above the bolt, especially if the keel has worn out in that area,

Sum



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[Ward H]

Buyer e-mailed me that the bolt appeared to be intact before he took it out and it was intact when he removed it.
Only two possiblities are I missed the hole when putting the bolt back in place in May or someone recently took the bolt out, then put it back wrong. Since the cabin is locked, marina does not have key, it must have been me.
And it held up for 6 hours of trailering and many hours of sailing this summer without dropping enough to give me any indication of something being wrong.

Buyer is good guy and being good about this. I offered to fix it last night or this coming weekend. He said he had someone who could look at it for him and he knew it was a relatively easy fix so he was going that route first, so I did not have to travel the 4hr round trip to his house.

Thanks for the ideas

 

[Benny17441]

The only thing I can think of is that the area of the keel pivot hole shifted upwards and when you replaced the bolt it went under wedging the top tip of the keel in place and it was maintained in balance by the lifting cable. Perhaps the buyer relaxed the tension on the lifting cable when trailering allowing the keel to slip back from were it had becomed wedged. This is just speculation but strange things happen to often. My concern would be possible damage to the keel trunk either at the front where the keel may have been wedged or at the back when the keel fell down. Inspection of the keel trunk might help clear the mistery.

 

[Joe]

Don't blame yourself for anything. Buyer is being cool and accepts that this is part of boat ownership....He knows you would have disclosed the problem if you'd been aware of it. So..rest easy... and hope the guy you bought your new boat from is as concientious as you are.

 

[LloydB]

Possibly the lift attachment point is forward of the keel center of gravity and during the May bolt check the keel tilted up and then the bolt was actually inserted outside the pivot hole. During the summer sail the keel may never have been lowered enough for the top end to come out of the trunk and tight trunk clearance allowed it to be lifted back into its normal position each time. Once on the trailer the lift line was well slacked off for the road, also the point of the keel may have been resting above the pivot bolt and/or the tight trunk kept it up at the beginning of the trip. During travel the trunk let go but then the bottom end of the keel could not drop as it was held up by the trailer keel support so the lighter top end came down instead.

 

[Ward H]

I think Benny and Lloyd's explanations must be close to what happened. Thanks

Joe, thanks.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

A couple of things to mention. When traveling with a swing keel, you need to allow the keel to rest on the keel tray. If not, the bouncing of the keel just hanging there while traveling can cause keel bolt failure, cable failure and so forth. Also, was the keel in the middle of the keel tray or off to one side not resting on the keel tray?

 

[MrBill_FLL]

A couple of things to mention. When traveling with a swing keel, you need to allow the keel to rest on the keel tray. If not, the bouncing of the keel just hanging there while traveling can cause keel bolt failure, cable failure and so forth. Also, was the keel in the middle of the keel tray or off to one side not resting on the keel tray?

That is the 1st thing I thought... trailering an unsupported 650# keel.

that should break the bolt or the fiberglass.

 

[Ward H]

That is the 1st thing I thought... trailering an unsupported 650# keel.

that should break the bolt or the fiberglass.

The N17 keel weighs around 100 lbs but your right, it should have been supported. I didn't get to adding a block to the trailer to do this.

Dave, he didn't say if it dropped onto the trailer frame or alongside it.

I believe the issue is resolved.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Ward, I agree enough on this thread. Good to hear from you.

crazy dave