I will be buying a Hunter 356. I am retiring and will be doing extensive cruising, first in Caribbean, then world-wide. I have owned power boats all my life, doing extensive Bahamas cruising. For the last five years I have had a Ericson 30+. QUESTION: Cruising under sail entails much down-wind running (I've read many cruising accounts of boats leaving the Panama Canal,for instance, heading for the Marquesas, a 3000 mile downwind run in which the sails were set running dead down wind and not touched for the duration.) How would a Hunter 356 handle the same scenario?? (Run up two cruising spinnakers on a double-groove head stay??) Furthermore, in my Hobie cat days, many are the times when the mainsail would be drapped all over the spreaders, and that was on occassions when I was not necessarily running dead downwind. (and the Hobie does not have swept-back spreaders)What I am asking, I guess, is whether the radically swept-back spreaders achieve the result of eliminating the back stay, overlooking the fact that a mainsail has to go in there and function. I NEED HELP !!! CHARLES FRICK
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double headsails
If you're going to run double headsails, it doesn't make much sense to be looking at a fractionally rigged boat. I know a few people who use double headsails downwind on long runs such as going to Hawaii, but have never heard of anyone using two cruising spinnakers. That said, you'd probably want something with a headstay (as opposed to a forestay), an adjustable backstay, and running backstays to keep the mast from pumping. You're right about the swept spreaders limiting your downwind angles, especially on long passages where chafing becomes a factor. But DDW is going the slow way, particularly on boats not running conventional spinnakers. Many of us find that our VMG increases when we "tack" downwind on a broad reach no deeper than 155 degrees. A much more comfortable way to sail as well. But no, the 356 won't perform nearly as well downwind as your Erikson. It's too comfy a boat.
If you're going to run double headsails, it doesn't make much sense to be looking at a fractionally rigged boat. I know a few people who use double headsails downwind on long runs such as going to Hawaii, but have never heard of anyone using two cruising spinnakers. That said, you'd probably want something with a headstay (as opposed to a forestay), an adjustable backstay, and running backstays to keep the mast from pumping. You're right about the swept spreaders limiting your downwind angles, especially on long passages where chafing becomes a factor. But DDW is going the slow way, particularly on boats not running conventional spinnakers. Many of us find that our VMG increases when we "tack" downwind on a broad reach no deeper than 155 degrees. A much more comfortable way to sail as well. But no, the 356 won't perform nearly as well downwind as your Erikson. It's too comfy a boat.
You can run a double head sail
on your twin grooved foil as long as you've got two appropriate halyards and two poles. As John mentions I don't think double spinnakers is workable and they're not going to go in the foil tracks anyway. Also as mentioned the swept spreaders will keep the main from being 100% effective DDW but that being said, properly vanged and prevented the main can still provide drive even if it can't be eased completely abeam. I think you'll find that it will blanket at least half of your double headsail rig so I would suggest running headsail(s) only. We do it all the time with our assymetrical spinnaker when running deep angles and it works great. I'm going to disagree about the need for running backstays as the diamond stays of a true B&R rig provide a tensioned prebend of the mast which resists pumping and provides support to the mast midsections that running backs are typically designed to deal with. While not ideal for downwind work I think you'll find your fractional rig can do fine. Gybing downwind in light air as John suggests can indeed improve your VMG as opposed to a DDW run. However, as you approach a higher percentage of hull speed (in more breeze) this advantage is lost. At that point sea state and your boat's motion will determine the angles you want.
on your twin grooved foil as long as you've got two appropriate halyards and two poles. As John mentions I don't think double spinnakers is workable and they're not going to go in the foil tracks anyway. Also as mentioned the swept spreaders will keep the main from being 100% effective DDW but that being said, properly vanged and prevented the main can still provide drive even if it can't be eased completely abeam. I think you'll find that it will blanket at least half of your double headsail rig so I would suggest running headsail(s) only. We do it all the time with our assymetrical spinnaker when running deep angles and it works great. I'm going to disagree about the need for running backstays as the diamond stays of a true B&R rig provide a tensioned prebend of the mast which resists pumping and provides support to the mast midsections that running backs are typically designed to deal with. While not ideal for downwind work I think you'll find your fractional rig can do fine. Gybing downwind in light air as John suggests can indeed improve your VMG as opposed to a DDW run. However, as you approach a higher percentage of hull speed (in more breeze) this advantage is lost. At that point sea state and your boat's motion will determine the angles you want.
Watch for chafing
I have a B&R rig on my 23.5 and I think they all handle about the same. None of my three Hobies had any spreaders but the main did rub against the backswept shrouds. I find that I can match the downwind speeds of other boats with normal rigs that have backstays. However My sail does rub against the spreaders and most are sold with chafing patches installed to prevent problems. You still has to watch it and have the patches replaced as needed. If you were going cruising for years at a time you might want to have spare chafing patches on the boat so you could have them replaced in any port quickly. Other than the patches being necessary I think the B&R rig is wonderful. I regularly pass boats without it. The key to making this boat perform downwind is to have a good whisker pole set up. On the 356 you'll want a topping lift and a down haul because the pole is pretty heavy. I see folks sailing without their whiskerpole when they need it and it is like running on three cylinder when you have eight. If you need a track on the front of the mast to make the whisker pole easy for you to set then have it installed! They even make light carbon poles for those of us with bad backs. Don't spend $100,000++ on a boat and skimp on the gear. This boat is a fast sailer and a good whisker pole is important for running downwind. I know gybing downwind on fast reaches is faster but I don't do it whenever I feel lazy (which is most of the time). With the big main prevented and a whiskerpole on the genoa, a B&R rig goes wing and wing just fine.
I have a B&R rig on my 23.5 and I think they all handle about the same. None of my three Hobies had any spreaders but the main did rub against the backswept shrouds. I find that I can match the downwind speeds of other boats with normal rigs that have backstays. However My sail does rub against the spreaders and most are sold with chafing patches installed to prevent problems. You still has to watch it and have the patches replaced as needed. If you were going cruising for years at a time you might want to have spare chafing patches on the boat so you could have them replaced in any port quickly. Other than the patches being necessary I think the B&R rig is wonderful. I regularly pass boats without it. The key to making this boat perform downwind is to have a good whisker pole set up. On the 356 you'll want a topping lift and a down haul because the pole is pretty heavy. I see folks sailing without their whiskerpole when they need it and it is like running on three cylinder when you have eight. If you need a track on the front of the mast to make the whisker pole easy for you to set then have it installed! They even make light carbon poles for those of us with bad backs. Don't spend $100,000++ on a boat and skimp on the gear. This boat is a fast sailer and a good whisker pole is important for running downwind. I know gybing downwind on fast reaches is faster but I don't do it whenever I feel lazy (which is most of the time). With the big main prevented and a whiskerpole on the genoa, a B&R rig goes wing and wing just fine.
Watch for chafing-sweptback spreaders
Mr. Frank Ladd: Thanks for your helpful reply to my concern re:sweptback spreaders. As I mentioned, I've powerboated all my life and the 5 years I owned my Ericson rarely had the sails up so excuse my selfimposed ignorance re: sail handling. But now I've got to get serious. 1. Is the main purpose of R&R rig to allow the main to have extra large roach? This I would applaud. But statistically, 40% of Hunters are sold with inmast furling !! 2. You state you regularly pass boats without B&R rig. Is that because of the larger roach? 3. Is wisker pole set up on the jip, genoa, or cruising spinaker? Thanks. Charles Frick
Mr. Frank Ladd: Thanks for your helpful reply to my concern re:sweptback spreaders. As I mentioned, I've powerboated all my life and the 5 years I owned my Ericson rarely had the sails up so excuse my selfimposed ignorance re: sail handling. But now I've got to get serious. 1. Is the main purpose of R&R rig to allow the main to have extra large roach? This I would applaud. But statistically, 40% of Hunters are sold with inmast furling !! 2. You state you regularly pass boats without B&R rig. Is that because of the larger roach? 3. Is wisker pole set up on the jip, genoa, or cruising spinaker? Thanks. Charles Frick
swept back spreaders
I have a 29.5 It is set up almost the same as your 356, except mine does not have the in mast furling main. It makes no sense to me for the B&R with out backstays to cut off 20% of the sail. The idea is to have the biggest main possible because of the down wind problems.Besides an electric winch is much cheaper than the in mast sysem. You will need to make some changes or the boat will not sail directly down wind as well as mast head rigs like your Ericson. On my boat I installed an outside track and got rid of the 110% jib, and replaced it with a 165% . Now I can fly the main up to the spreaders and the big jib gives me the power to fly. Clearly with such a big sail I am careful not to stress the rig . Now the boat can go down wind like a champ
I have a 29.5 It is set up almost the same as your 356, except mine does not have the in mast furling main. It makes no sense to me for the B&R with out backstays to cut off 20% of the sail. The idea is to have the biggest main possible because of the down wind problems.Besides an electric winch is much cheaper than the in mast sysem. You will need to make some changes or the boat will not sail directly down wind as well as mast head rigs like your Ericson. On my boat I installed an outside track and got rid of the 110% jib, and replaced it with a 165% . Now I can fly the main up to the spreaders and the big jib gives me the power to fly. Clearly with such a big sail I am careful not to stress the rig . Now the boat can go down wind like a champ
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