swaging questions

Jul 7, 2024
67
Catalina 27 Lake Keowee
I have a 3/32" out-haul and would like to swage thimbles onto each end, which is what is now installed. The tools that I find are quite expensive ($200/300) and seem to only swage copper and aluminum. My question is should I just go with the softer oval swage sleeves? or find a tool that can handle 3/32" stainless sleeves?

Note, I thought about splicing dyneema, but it is at both ends, and I would have to splice standing and reaching up to the boom. I am not sure the result would be acceptable.
 

JBP-PA

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Apr 29, 2022
782
Jeanneau Tonic 23 Erie, PA
This one is $45 and can crimp swages up to 1/8. You want zinc plated copper swages for any strength. At 3/32, stainless might be overkill.

 
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RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,732
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
Zinc plated copper. do not use aluminum nico press. two sleeves on each end preferred but even just one copper sleeve is nearly as strong as 1x19 3/32" ss.
 
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Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,304
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
You should be able to remove the wire and take it to a rig shop for a real roller type swage. Or you can take the wire to any West Marine and use their workbench. The thimbles, sleeves and new wire will be right there along with a full size crimp/swage tool. Here's a link to the 1988 Catalina 27 owner's manual that will have diagrams of the outhaul rigging.(page 27)

All standing rigging can be removed, measured, rebuilt or newly constructed, and re installed. Therefore, it is not typical to require an onsight tool for such a job. I have an older model C 27 whose boom's end cap is very different. However the outhaul works exactly the same. The clew wire that you want to repair can be fished out by removing the end cap. There should be enough room to get the wire past the boom sheave... if not it can be removed easily... then you can pull the wire and the control line out together...of course you'll want to attach a messenger line to the other end of the control line so it'll be easy to rethread it after the repair. Good luck.
 
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jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
24,455
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
The clew wire that you want to repair can be fished out by removing the end cap. There should be enough room to get the wire past the boom sheave... if not it can be removed easily... then you can pull the wire and the control line out together...of course you'll want to attach a messenger line to the other end of the control line so it'll be easy to rethread it after the repair.
I thought about splicing dyneema, but it is at both ends,
Reading @Joe's post about the wire removal, this should make the Dyneema splices very easy with a buried locking brummel on each end.
Watch this video, and you'll learn the trick to create a locking brummel with only a single end of Dyneema. This will let you create the outhaul with Dyneema rather than fussing with wire cabling and wire swaging.

 

JBP-PA

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Apr 29, 2022
782
Jeanneau Tonic 23 Erie, PA
Zinc plated copper. do not use aluminum nico press. two sleeves on each end preferred but even just one copper sleeve is nearly as strong as 1x19 3/32" ss.
Oops, you are correct, zinc plated, not nickel plated.
 
Jul 7, 2024
67
Catalina 27 Lake Keowee
Oops, you are correct, zinc plated, not nickel plated.
I was looking around for nickel plated copper sleeves. They are available, but not very. And they are most compatible with Stainless Steel. Nickel is used in stainless steel alloys.

Tin plated copper sleeves are more available, and tin is also a compatible material with stainless.

What I read on the internet is zinc will react with the stainless steel and the zinc will corrode away. I have not read anything good about using zinc plated anything on boats, and not in contact with stainless. Maybe someone has an article stating the opposite.

Nickel and tin are closer to stainless steel than zinc in the galvanic table.

Wikipedia's galvanic series
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,844
- -- -Bayfield
Make sure you have the terminology right. Swaging means using a machine with dies to compress fittings on to the ends of wires. They can be hand held or bench mounted roller swaging machines, or hydraulic, which is what I use. Nicro press is using a crimping tool, either hand held or bench mounted to crush an oval sleeve that contains the wire that is threaded into. For a loop, you run the wire through one half of the sleeve, create your loop and push it through the other half of the sleeve. Use a SS thimble inserted on the inside of the loop and pull the loop tight before crimping. You can use on or two sleeves. To obtain the best strength in the process, you want a little bit of wire sticking out of the oval sleeve rather than burying it inside the sleeve. There are smoother, swage-like fittings with eyes, forks or studs that can be hand crimped too, but no loops. And don't confuse them with swage terminal end fittings as they are different animals even though they look similar.
 
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dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
5,028
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
I was looking around for nickel plated copper sleeves. They are available, but not very. And they are most compatible with Stainless Steel. Nickel is used in stainless steel alloys.

Tin plated copper sleeves are more available, and tin is also a compatible material with stainless.

What I read on the internet is zinc will react with the stainless steel and the zinc will corrode away. I have not read anything good about using zinc plated anything on boats, and not in contact with stainless. Maybe someone has an article stating the opposite.

Nickel and tin are closer to stainless steel than zinc in the galvanic table.

Wikipedia's galvanic series
This is an interesting one....

Zinc will work as an anode protecting your stainless and the base metal of the feral.

It does not "react" with the stainless. Stainless steels are coupled with zinc all the time - think your stainless prop shaft. It has zinc anodes put on it to maintain the stainless from corroding - used because it's submerged. Stainless isn't typically galvanized - a zinc coating - simply because it is stainless steel and doesn't need the added protection.

But there is no problem using zinc in contact with stainless.

I'm not sure what references you need me to give you. I can cite entire text books and more...

dj

p.s. one more thing - since your cable isnt submerged in the ocean, the zinc will last a very long time in this application.
 
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RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,732
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
I've been using this tool for 15 years or so. still available on Amazon etc for about $200. and does a great job for anything I've had a need for from 3/32 to 5/32" (made in Japan, not China btw). the longer handles make crimping that much easier, especially on the larger size rigging. I built all new 5/32" standing rigging for my Mac 25 12 -13 years ago, and several others since then, using zinc plated copper swage (x2) and had no corrosion problems. I generally get my sleeves from Rigging Warehouse. price varies a LOT, depending on source, so it pays to shop around.

IMG_0792.JPG
 

JBP-PA

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Apr 29, 2022
782
Jeanneau Tonic 23 Erie, PA
Zinc will work as an anode protecting your stainless and the base metal of the feral.
My 3/32 SS topping lift had plated copper Nicopress 'swage' sleeves for 40 years with no apparent corrosion, in fresh water though. I scraped off some of the plating to check that they were copper. The only reason I had to replace them is because some idiot wrapped the main halyard around the topping lift and didn't notice until it was mangled. I'm not naming names, but I was sailing solo.
 
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dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
5,028
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
My 3/32 SS topping lift had plated copper Nicopress 'swage' sleeves for 40 years with no apparent corrosion, in fresh water though. I scraped off some of the plating to check that they were copper. The only reason I had to replace them is because some idiot wrapped the main halyard around the topping lift and didn't notice until it was mangled. I'm not naming names, but I was sailing solo.
Hahahaha - boat ghosts... They break all kinds of things on board...

dj