survey's in what does it mean?

[Don Crowther]

HiJust received the survey this weekend. Since it is the weekend I thought I would ask your opinon of this boat. The surver isn't around until monday and I don't need anohter sleepless night. I know that this is a long post but I would appreciate any input.ThanksDon  "Moisture reading gained from the undersides consistently registered in the high-end of the MOIST range to the low-end of the WET range. Percussion testing of the undersides was negative for indicators for blisters or delamination. Moisture readings gained from the rudder registered in the DRY to WET ranges. Several stress cracks were noted in the starboard side of the rudder. A small amount of delamination was detected when we sounded the rudder. We applied lateral pressure to the rudder, noting no unusual “play” between the rudder post and log.The Tramex Skipper Plus Moisture Meter is broken out into three scales: DRY (0-1.1%), MOIST (1.3% - 2.0%) and WET (2.2% - 2.7%). Higher than normal readings might indicate potential for blistering or delamination, or the presence of moisture in the laminate or core (if core material exists). Conductive material in some antifoulings could cause false positive readings.Inspection of the underwater running gear revealed some very minor nicks in the leading edges of the propeller blades. The strut bearing showed small amounts of normal or expected wear.Next, we inspected the hullsides, finding each to present in an overall average cosmetic condition, per the age of the vessel. Signs of prior repair were noted along the bow stem and in the port hullside, between amidships and the transom. Signs of prior repair, along with a few current hairline cracks, were noted around the perimeter of the transom.Proceeding aboard, we inspected the deck and cabin housing by using the Moisture readings gained from the cockpit sole registered in the MOIST to WET range. Percussion testing of the noted surfaces was negative for indicators for voids or delamination. The cockpit scupper drains were partially plugged.We conducted our survey with the mast up. Inspection of the mast above 6’ was necessarily visualWe searched for signs of past water leakage from overhead sources, finding 3 separate water trails or stains in the aft cabin. Two of the trails appeared to originate from the area of the deck to hull joint and the third was from an overhead source. Hairline stress cracks were noted around the traveler mounting base and in other random areas. Signs of prior repair, along with current cracks, were noted inboard of the starboard chainplate. Percussion testing revealed what appeared to be a void in the starboard deck, immediately forward of the chainplate.Greater than expected amounts of water-related damage were observed to the teak & holly sole. Moderate to large amounts of deterioration was observed to the centerline-mounted bilge access panel (teak) located at the fore end of the salon."

 

[Robert Gainer]

This can’t be the entire survey.

This can’t be the entire survey. It’s too short and doesn’t have information about engine or hardware to name just two missing items. Is there more?All the best,Robert Gainer

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

NOT GREAT

Although problems were found with the hull and deck, you really need to talk to the surveyor to get details. Much of what he wrote is boiler-plate language common when any moisture, delamination or prior repairs are detected. Without speaking to him, you'll never know how bad it is.The good news is that you have enough ammunition to return to the bargaining table with the owner should you choose to proceed.

 

[Don Crowther]

not entire survey

Thanks Robert You are right this isn't the entire survey. This is only the part that's keeping me awake at night. This seems to say that there is a moisture problem. The boat has been on the hard for a year. There is a void on the starboard side deck forward of the chainplate(what is a void?). It also seems to say that water is leaking into the cabin and has caused problems with flooring. I guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow and talk to the surverDon

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Don, I know it is hard to do...

but use care regarding becoming too vested in a boat before you get all the facts. The surveyor needs to tell you in lay terms the extent of any water damage and about how much it will cost to fix. Be prepared to walk away from the boat. There are lots of them out there.Terry

 

[Don Crowther]

Thanks

Thanks TerryYes it will be hard to walk away. But in the long run I'm just out the survey costs not Thousands of dollars.Thanks

 

[Robert Gainer]

The snippet you posted

Don,Without knowing more I couldn’t say one way or the other if this boat is worth pursuing. The snippet you posted just says normal wear and tear for a boat of its size and age but I don’t know what age boat or even what boat we are talking about. The only real red flag is the condition of the sole.As far as the moisture meter readings you don’t know what they mean without a reference or standard. How bad wet is becomes very subject to what wet means. What is the water content in real terms? How does it compare to what is normal. Fiberglass is never again dry after it leaves the factory.The void in the starboard deck is of unknown size so it might range from an insignifajent ½” void in the laminate all the way up to a 2 foot square section damaged by dry lay-up and a large void. I hope that somewhere in the report he tells you how large the void is.So far I am not impressed with the skill of the surveyor. The snippet is not clear and is almost entirely the standard filler you see when the surveyor has nothing to say in plan English. You should make a list of questions for the surveyor.Good luck and all the best,Robert Gainer

 

[Jim]

This it typ for

older boats. There is nothing major wrong with this boat. It is just old and you got a fancy dancy surveyor.

 

[higgs]

my opinion

I would not buy the boat as the moisture readings incicate a wet hull. You can do better.

 

[Capt Ron;-)]

Core moisture

Don, Good opinions here, take heed.Like the feller says, "don't fall in love till after the survey"This, just by what I have read from the surveyor's moisture readings in the report, I would give a miss. I would NOT buy this vessel.You said it had been 'on the hard for one year' then it should have much better readings unless this surveyor was trying to read through bottom paint, but doesn't sound like it. These are higher than normal readings if it had just been brought out in the slings for a noon-haul.It is likely moisture in the core, rotten end-cut-balsa or a number of things that are not good structurally. Are there blisters? I would suspect hydrolysis from these readings, that would result in some blistering of the polyseter laminate in the hull.Buyer beware! The money paid for the survey, if it, and likely will, saves you a real headache + mucho dinero$$$...run don't walk away and thank the surveyor, it was WELL SPENT!

 

[PT]

something more to ponder

I bought a boat 2 years ago. The survey indicated some moisture on the deck near chainplates. I really sweated the first few months as I thought I may have made a bad decision with this boat. I ended up removing all the hardware in the area and epoxying the opening/holes so no more moisture could enter. I bought a moisture meter to check the deck muself and after 2 years it still indicates "moist" and in a few places "wet". But structurally all is solid as a rock - no soft spots, no leaks down below. I once checked the moisture level of the varnished teak table down in the cabin and guess what....it indicated "moist." And this table is in perfect shape. So don't let the readings necessarily turn you away. See what the surveyor says and ask him enough questions.

 

[CalebD]

Don, it would be nice to know which make/model

of boat that was surveyed and how old it and it's history before jumping to conclusions. As others have said most of the verbiage you posted is kind of insurance legalese for saying he would not risk his butt on this boat, perhaps. I have never used a moisture meter but I don't hold a lot of confidence in their readings as someone else posted.Tell us what boat it is and it's age and that will help.Good luck.

 

[Ernie]

No reason to panic

I tend to agree with PT & Capt. Ron.. I had to have a new survey done for insurance purposes on my '79 H33 last year. My survey turned up almost exactly the same results. I did some poking around of my own and couldn't find most of what the moisture meter said was going on. I did the old "drill and fill" routine with epoxy resin to try and build up the "weak areas" but when drilling, most of the cores came up dry as could be. Bottom line, I wouldn't put TOO much faith into what surveyors and their toys (especialy their toys) have to say. I'm not saying ignore it, they can definately point out other problems that need to be addressed, I just don't fully trust their abilities to "see beneath the surface".Basically, be advised that there MIGHT be a problem, but then it may not be severe enough to lose sleep over. By the way , I too lost a few nights of sleep when I first read my survey too.

 

[Don Crowther]

type and year

CalebDShe's a 84' H31 I don't think the main hatch into the cabin was covered this past year while she sat (judging from the pictures anyway). So maybe thats where the water damage from the floor came from. Anyway I will be calling the surver this morning. Thanks for all the opinions. I'll let you know what happening next if it's good news then a sea-trial next.Don