Survey

[Member 131497]

Hello again
Regarding surveys... How does this is usually done? Do you split the cost with the boat owner, what are the options there?
C

 

[dlochner]

A survey is done for the buyer and all costs associated with the survey are the buyer's responsibility. Do not use a surveyor recommended by the buyer or broker.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

It’s ‘your nickel’ as stated above and done after an offer is accepted subject to a survey acceptable to the buyer.

 

[Ken Cross]

And don't expect the surveyor to find everything. There will be some things left for you to discover, but hopefully no safety issues.

Ken

 

[Ron20324]

A survey is done for the buyer and all costs associated with the survey are the buyer's responsibility. Do not use a surveyor recommended by the buyer or broker.

do you mean the SELLER or the broker? Cost can be split, it's all in the negotiations.

 

[dlochner]

do you mean the SELLER or the broker? Cost can be split, it's all in the negotiations.

If the the survey fees are split between the buyer and seller, the surveyor has a conflict of interest, does he represent the buyer's interest or the seller's interest?

When the surveyor is paid by the buyer he is there to represent the best interests of the buyer and there is no conflict. Associated fees, such as haul out might be negotiated and split as it does not affect the surveyor's obligation to the buyer.

 

[Ron20324]

If the the survey fees are split between the buyer and seller, the surveyor has a conflict of interest, does he represent the buyer's interest or the seller's interest?

When the surveyor is paid by the buyer he is there to represent the best interests of the buyer and there is no conflict. Associated fees, such as haul out might be negotiated and split as it does not affect the surveyor's obligation to the buyer.

I didn't make that clear. I meant DO NOT use the sellers surveyor. The buyer should get the surveyor, but the cost- any costs- can be negotiated.

 

[Terry Cox]

In our area the buyer hires a marine surveyor who’s price mainly covers hull integrity and safety. They do an above the waterline check for water damage, a visual inventory and inspection of the various systems above the waterline; engine running, standing rigging, through hulls, gauges, pumps, etc. Then the boat is placed on the hard where the surveyor will inspect all sections below the waterline; blisters, water intrusion/damage, shaft strut, prop, etc. Our surveyor provided a written report to the buyer and a copy to our insurance agent, if applicable. Any defects uncovered and reported in the survey are negotiable with the seller either by adjusting the price or paying outright for any repairs. In our case the owner paid for the replacement of three defective though hulls while on the hard.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I just had an in-water survey done three weeks ago @ $18/ft. Now why would anybody do this? Good question. But if your boat is > 20 yr and wish to change insurance carriers or, here in CA at least, wish to move to a new marina, you may be asked to provide a survey not more than two years old. For the moment, I avoided the out-of-water variety b/c I had the boat hauled last year, and had pictures of the boat on the hard and the invoices for the work done to offer as substitution.

But more to the point. There will likely be some difference, even on the very same boat surveyed close in time, among survey reports depending on who commissioned the survey. An owner havIng his own boat surveyed will see, in my opinion, a “better report” than if a potential buyer was having the same boat surveyed. The owner, if present, can answer questions on the spot and supply documentation. This information adds to the quality of the report. At the same time, the surveyor may be reluctant to “dig deep” into certain areas of the boat but not so if the owner was not around, which might impede discovery of subtle or insidious problems. But then again, no one knows your own boat better than you do, etc. Also, if reporting to the owner, the valuation is likely to be more toward the high side of a range; whereas, likely the opposite if a potential buyer is paying, etc. In the various relationships, i.e., owner, buyer, broker recommendation, etc., with a surveyor, some variation of the above is likely in play, as intimated above.

 

[Kings Gambit]

And don't expect the surveyor to find everything. There will be some things left for you to discover, but hopefully no safety issues.

Ken

I don’t think the surveyor pays close attention to some maintenance type “issues.” Like, hatch/port-light seals need replacement (as in leak). Leather wheel covering detaching, etc.

 

[Terry Cox]

Make it a point to follow your surveyor around as they do their inspection, ask lots of questions and make sure all the systems work.

 

[capta]

IMO there are very few thing a good surveyor will miss. I've had surveys that lasted a day, some three.
You may get the owner to chip in on the haul out, but that's very rare.The more the owner chips in toward the survey, the less I'd trust the boat.
After the survey the buyer can request a drop in price because of some of the items found, or request the owner satisfy the faults of the survey or a combination. But, if you commission the survey it is yours and the owner has no right to see it.
Buying a boat, unlike buying a house, 'full disclosure' is not required so no matter what, it is 'buyer beware'.A good surveyor is like finding gold, a poor one could cost you mega-bucks. I've had my own survey company and many decades in the marine business and I always hire a surveyor because if I like a boat I might not do as in depth a survey as an impartial party would.
Pay the money and consider it a good investment.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Buying a boat, unlike buying a house, 'full disclosure' is not required so no matter what, it is 'buyer beware'.

No, but the broker and seller are required to truthfully answer questions they know the answers to. They cannot legally misrepresent the condition of the boat. Such as, has this boat ever been hard aground? If so, what repairs were made? Has it ever sunk? Has the rigging ever come down? Are there places where deck leakage has caused damage or left discoloration? Have they been covered up, as with paint?

 

[MitchM]

there are 2 surveyors in my neighborhood. one has a boat, maintained meticulously. th other jumped into surveying to make some money when he lost his main job. . one does an excelelnt job, the other has a 'waiver of all liability' so if you hire him for surveys you can't sue him when messes up. buyer of surveys : beware !!

 

[Kings Gambit]

No, but the broker and seller are required to truthfully answer questions they know the answers to. They cannot legally misrepresent the condition of the boat. Such as, has this boat ever been hard aground? If so, what repairs were made? Has it ever sunk? Has the rigging ever come down? Are there places where deck leakage has caused damage or left discoloration? Have they been covered up, as with paint?

Going on. Has the boat ever had blistering? If so, have they all been repaired; the ones you know of? If so, when and where were the repairs done? Has the engine ever seriously overheated? Does it burn much oil? What is the condition of the batteries? Have they ever gone dead? Stuff like that.

Have the owner fill out the questionnaire in writing, and then have the boat surveyed. Don’t let yourself lose the game of “Gotcha.”

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Going on. Has the boat ever had blistering? If so, have they all been repaired; the ones you know of? If so, when and where were the repairs done? Has the engine ever seriously overheated? Does it burn much oil? What is the condition of the batteries? Have they ever gone dead? Stuff like that.

Have the owner fill out the questionnaire in writing, and then have the boat surveyed. Don’t let yourself lose the game of “Gotcha.”

All good questions. My experience is that brokers will say “I don’t know”, “I’ll see if I can find out” and then don’t and other unresponsive vague non-answers or for owner- selling boats, “I’ve only owned it x years”, “don’t think so”, etc... non-answers. I’ve even got a “the dog ate it” response when I once asked a seller to respond to written questions. Maybe I’m cynical but I wouldn’t truth either of them to be honest.

Good boats are easy to identify. Bad ones are not as easy to know.

 

[Sailfanatic]

I've dealt with dozens of buyers over my ownership years and no none ever asked me to fill out a questionnaire. If a buyer were to do so, I would refuse.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I've dealt with dozens of buyers over my ownership years and no none ever asked me to fill out a questionnaire. If a buyer were to do so, I would refuse.

So many boats, so few buyers.

 

[dLj]

Going on. Has the boat ever had blistering? If so, have they all been repaired; the ones you know of? If so, when and where were the repairs done? Has the engine ever seriously overheated? Does it burn much oil? What is the condition of the batteries? Have they ever gone dead? Stuff like that.

Have the owner fill out the questionnaire in writing, and then have the boat surveyed. Don’t let yourself lose the game of “Gotcha.”

Unless someone is the original owner from new, then the only answer one can give to most of your questions is "not to my knowledge". Of course, if it hasn't happened in the current owners time with the boat.

I'll answer any questions a buyer may have and will do so as truthfully as I can. But the only boat I've ever owned since new is my tender. I've always owned boats purchased second hand, and most of those have had more than one previous owner.

dj