Survey: What sails do you use for which winds?

[jepomer]

What sails do you use for which winds?

It is cold and snow is falling here in New England.
The New England Boat Show is a month away.
My thoughts are drifting forward to spring and sailing.

Last season I bought new Ullman sails from Catalina Direct. The foresail size changed from 110% to 135%. Between the sails being new and the larger foresail, it was a delightful change for our sailing experience. We even placed 6th in the Mass Bay Pursuit Races for the season (not bad for an older couple who use the racing as a way to practice our sailing skills).

This got me to wonder what everyone else is using for foresails, when they reef the main, change or furl foresail.

So, pour yourself a glass of your favorite beverage and share what sails and how you use them on your boat?
I made some lists to help organize our thoughts.
What would you do differently if you had a chance?

Model:

• MK1
  MK2
  Fin Keel
  Wing Keel
  Shoal Keel
  Standard Rig
  Tall Rig

Foresail Handling:

• Hank-on
  Furler (what kind)

Standard sizes:

• other (smaller)
  98%
  110%
  135%
  150%
  other (larger)
  Spinaker

Wind Speeds (knots):

• < 5 knots
  5 to 10 knots
  10 to 15 knots
  15 to 20 knots
  20 to 25 knots
  25 to 30 knots
  > 30 knots

Sailing Environment:

• Lake (no mountains)
  Lake (surrounded by mountains)
  River
  Bay
  Ocean

 

[jepomer]

"Ophelia" is a 1988 standard rig, wing keel MK1 Capri 22.

She came with the original main and 110% sails. The sails were soft but useable. Last season they were replaced with new Ullman full batten main and 135% genoa. The furler is CDI. The boat has the racing package but no spinnaker.

She sails primarily on Boston's outer harbor and Mass Bay. Winds can be light (less than 5 knots) especially in the early evening, but is often 10-15 knots. With the old sails, we would reef the main by 10 knots. With the new sails we seldom reef the main.

The 135% genoa has been a great improvement in both light winds (more sail area) and higher winds.

I was wondering what the Capri 22 would do if it had a 150% genoa in the 10-15 knot winds.
The CDI furler does not allow for quick foresail changes. I would consider changing to something else since the boat stays in the water all season.

John

 

[sinnettc]

Here's the scoop on Verboten:

Model:
MK2
Fin Keel
Tall Rig

Foresail Handling:
Hank-on (Shaefer Tuff Luff foil)

Standard sizes:
98%
135%
Asymmetrical Spinnaker

Wind Speeds (knots):
< 5 knots 135, full main
5 to 10 knots 135, full main
10 to 15 knots 135 to 98, full main to first reef
15 to 20 knots 98, first reef to second reef (untried yet)
20 to 25 knots 98?, second reef (untried yet)
25 to 30 knots Don't go out?
> 30 knots Don't go out!

Sailing Environment:
Lake (no mountains) Home port If we get the rain
River Rarely (Columbia River) but might become common if we don't get rain
Bay Might add to our list if no rain
Ocean San Juan Islands. Maybe cross the bar @ Newport if the weather is really good.

I've been thinking about adding a storm jib to my inventory so I can go out on those windier days. It really depends on how well the 98 plus second reef in the main work out. I haven't had a chance to try the second reef yet so I don't really know how the boat will handle.

When my 135 wears out I'm going to have to give some serious thought to whether I want to keep the hank-on jibs or if I want to go to a furling jib that's cut to be reefed. It would make things easier for single handing and would free up some space in the v-berth. If I don't go to a furler I'll probably have to replace my tuff luff as it's got some permanent twists that affect sail shape badly.

I'd like to add a sprit & furler for the spnnaker but that's really just a pipe dream.

 

[jepomer]

Nice summary. Just the type of information I was hoping to see!

 

[shnool]

Assuming crew/skipper total of 3 or better:

Wind Speeds (knots):
< 5 knots 155, full main (symmetrical spinnaker).
5 to 10 knots 155, full main (symmetrical spinnaker, no dead downwind now)
10 to 15 knots 155, full main, (symmetrical spinnaker, broad reach only, switch to small spin, or use cruising asym) flattener on hard, vang on hard, outhaul on max, sail with traveler down. everyone hiking.
15 to 20 knots 135, full main, flattener on hard, vang on hard, outhaul on max, sail with traveler down. everyone hiking. probably no spin
20 to 25 knots Reef, 135, flattener on hard, vang on hard, outhaul on max, jib cars sliding back, sail with traveler down. everyone hiking. definitely no spin
25 to 30 knots 98, double reef, flattener on hard, vang on hard, outhaul on max, jib cars sliding back, sail with traveler down. everyone hiking. definitely no spin HOLD ON!
> 30 knots probably mainsail alone, double reef, crew slotted for railmeat, ONLY chicken jibes.

The key to all this is a full up crew. Basically all that gets slid down 5 knots for each crew member missing. Keep in mind the objective is to sail flat enough, say under 20 degrees. While I had my 22, I ONLY sailed single handed in any kind of wind. Most I felt comfortable taking her out solo in was about 20 knots, and THAT was dicy. Not because I couldn't handle it, or the boat, but because I couldn't react quickly enough solo to dump things to make it flatter. I also didn't have the full accompaniment of sails... I had a 155, and a 110, so I tended to hold onto the 155 longer than I should have.

 

[stevenwp2]

Holy crap!

Apparently I DO have a lot to learn. Things get creepy for me over 12 knots (typically gusting close to 20 if that's the case) using my SJ21 genny (about a 130 on the Capri) even with a couple folks as crew. I tried the 155 in 10-15 mph and it seemed ridiculous; blew off that race and switched to the SJ sail. Dang...

My Joe Waters main has reef points at the ends of the foot but no way to gather the sail in the middle. I reefed it once and kind of bagged things up as best I could... it worked OK but was a pain to keep out of the way.

I have a lot to learn. ;-)

 

[sinnettc]

Don't take Shnool's numbers too badly. You've got a wing keel and that probably equates to taking 5 knots off his numbers as far as heel goes. Plus he's a mad man :lol:

Oh, and take that sail in and have a couple extra grommets added for tie downs in the middle. My original sail only had a flattening reef, which doesn't include the mid-sail grommets, but it's only about a 1 foot reef. Full reef is closer to 3 feet.

 

[shnool]

Ah Chris, I did say with a FULL CREW! and I accounted for sailing lighter with less crew.
I'm not mad... and who said I was, cause I'll keel haul ya.... buwahahahahah.

This is the 25, on our first race last season. Before we started. If you catch a glimmer of the knotmeter (starboard side), vertical is 6 knots. Video is crappy quality (too much compression when I resized the files shame too, as it was originally 720p 60fps).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRK3Sx6fO5w

This next video was when I decided a Catalina 25 should not be finishing before us (you'll see us slowly pass him mid recording)! Because of the punishment involved with "Crewing" I put my crew on tiller, and took over grunt work (it was a drag race, wind abeam). I had no sail gloves for either of us that day (I do now)... never needed them before. I still have the scar from the rope burn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzRLIwtVjLk

Everyone in the club agreed, that those who actually raced that day earned a special place in the local club crazies haul of fame. To think I was originally going to sail it single handed.

Oh here is another shot same day... when I decided to put up the 130 (my only other sail)... which has a weird reef point (yes tuff luff with a reef of a genoa)... watch it'll make more sense. What's particularly entertaining was what happened at 3:30 when I decided the sail didn't look very nautical... Yes I'm also a dunce. Decks got a nice wash though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlE8tg1xRw0

 

[HERSH]

Reefing the jib looked good except: that lower section flailing around ---- doesn't seem right.

Winds like that, I would suggest a life jacket.

When the wind goes above where I have trouble with my C-22 full main and 110 I'll call it quits. The big boat just come into their own and the chop just kills a C-22 anyway.

Hershey

 

[jepomer]

Steven,

Don't let Shnool's wild abandonment scare you. I have been out there when the wind was blowing regularly in the 20s, but we hesitate about going out if it is already that high or close.

When my wife and I started, 5 knot winds were "exhilarating" with 5 degrees of heel! We then have been taking lessons over the past several years. Last season we took an advanced keelboat class that used a J22. With a crew of 4 we were easily handling the 15-20 knot winds that gusted randomly higher through the buildings and airport in Boston inner harbor. I did want to know what the boat could handle with an experienced person aboard to make sure we stayed out of trouble.

Crew weight placement can make a very big difference. Normally, I sail with my wife who has an adventurous side but is not as agile afoot as desired. In fact she slipped on the ice just before New Year's Eve and broke her ankle. She never sat on the rail before and I know she won't in the future. So I am the only "rail meat" for our regular sailing. I expect to do more solo sailing this summer. Seeing Shnool's strategy, the 135% genoa was a good choice for me now. I know I can't respond quickly enough yet for the higher winds. But I said "yet" because my goal is to be able to handle those conditions in case I find myself in them.

Hope others share their thoughts...

John

 

[jerrymlewis]

As I only race with this boat, and usually in light breeze of 3-10 knots, we typically run with the 155% genoa and full main. Once or twice a year we find winds stronger than 12-15 and will put up the 135% and maybe add a reef if it gets over 15 knots. But we still fly the spinnaker no matter what the wind blows downhill - still trying to get this tub to surf!

Our club treats a bunch of girls in the Friendship Club to a day on the lake and I'll put up the blade to keep it simple and allow them room to lay on the foredeck sunning. Otherwise, full set, full on most of the time.


Later,
Jerry
Kudzu 1985 Capri 22 std rig/fin keel

 

[HERSH]

The Friendship Club , if it is the one I found on the internet, seems like a very nice non-profit organization.
It is nice that you help out with a day on the water for these girls.

Hershey

 

[shnool]

Jerry, my crew isn't super comfortable with launching the spin yet. We've had our share of confusing launches. I am not really sure why, but each time its been something with setup.

I've done solo launches to 15 knots, it gets interesting (under tiller pilot) but never really scary. But my crew seems to struggle even under 15 knots. Its my goal to fix that this summer, perhaps swapping roles putting them on tiller and I'll do the launch.

Otherwise I stand by my sail choices, and glad to see another racer with similar choices.

 

[jerrymlewis]

Yes, Hershey. It is a great cause - the club is for girls at risk, either from a troubled family, single parent, or just have any needs beyond what schools, etc. can help (academic, social, legal, you name it).

We treat them to a full day on the water with a BBQ lunch and swim break in the middle - with the highlight being our "water balloon attacks" on each other's sailboats. Amazing the closing speeds you can get at ramming speed with guns full of water and skippers full of adrenaline! We've scared a few newbie skippers from coming back, but those that can handle it really learn a lot about their boat and handling skills! Fun for all. Just remember to keep those hatches closed and cell phones below.

 

[HERSH]

Jerry, my crew isn't super comfortable with launching the spin yet. We've had our share of confusing launches. I am not really sure why, but each time its been something with setup.
.................

Well Schnool, has your crew reversed the clew & the head yet? That is maximum embarrassment. Everybody sees the blunder and then you are left with the decision, " do I fly it as it is, or take it down and connect it up properly?"

Been there -- done that ---- referring to connecting the spinnaker up incorrectly.


Hershey

 

[sinnettc]

My Admiral is also not as spry as one would hope. She'll get up on the side of the cockpit with me, though, usually without asking. It's getting back down to come about that requires prior communication and patience on my part.

 

[HERSH]

I was not referring to the Admiral, but to the other crew I have seen on your boat.

Any Admiral who goes out sailing -- is a 5 star as far as I am concerned.

Hershey

 

[shnool]

HERSH - AMEN!

Or at least understands the obsession with sailing.

 

[aviatorjames]

What sails do you use for which winds?

...short answer: ...the only sails I've got!!
When it's light, all of them and the mainsail outhaul loose.
When it's strong, little of them with the outhaul tight.

 

[Chris Capri 22]

0-10: 155
11-15: 135
16-up: 100 or blade

A 135 works well for an all around headsail, much better than a 110. If you have a factory 110, scrap it for anything other than racing. A lot depends on crew size. If you are light on crew, go to the blade early and keep er on er feet.